In this one statement you have provided the evidence. Christianity does not allow for dhimmitude, but Islam does. Therefore, Allah can’t be God. I might add that the ancient Egyptian god Ra was worshiped as one god at a point in history, and he would fit your apparent definition of God.
I think you have quoted this before, and I think that I have already pointed out that Khomeini is a Shi’ite and not necessarily followed even by all Shi’ites.
The lack of “dhimmitude” in Christian tradition could be seen as a flaw in Christianity if you focus on the Middle Ages. Fortunately for Jews and Muslims, Christians more or less came up with dhimmitude (perhaps looking to Muslims for an example?) even though nothing in their Scriptures commanded them to tolerate unbelievers, and many things in those Scriptures indicated that unbelievers should be slaughtered wholesale (not just the OT but also Luke 19:27 and much of the Book of Revelation).
That’s a remarkably silly argument. You are assuming that everything in Islam is the way Allah wants it. Why can’t we just say that Muslims get the will of Allah wrong at many points? Christians certainly get God’s will wrong frequently.
Not Ra but the Aten–the disc of the Sun. This is an imperfect form of monotheism since it seems to have been directed toward a specific physical manifestation. But insofar as it was a form of monotheism, of course it was pointing toward the one true God. I am surprised that you think this is a startling or untenable conclusion. I have no problem with the idea that Akhenaton in some sense was worshiping the true God.
But obviously Christians of the Middle Ages and early modern period didn’t treat heretics as they would want to be treated by people of a different faith. Christians would have defended this (St. Augustine explicitly made this argument) by saying that charity toward heretics *required *the use of force in order to bring them back to the unity of the Church. One could argue that this didn’t violate the Golden Rule because an orthodox Christian would say “if I ever fall into heresy, spare no pains to bring me back.”
You have not provided one shred of evidence for your characterizations of Islam, and your characterizations of Christianity are based on *your *interpretation of Christianity, not on the historic reality (which has at times included forced conversion, for instance).
Persecution of heretics; the doctrine of eternal damnation; the slaughter of whole populations in the Old Testament; the violent imagery of the Book of Revelation; the denial of equality to women on the basis of New Testament passages; the tolerance of slavery as part of living in a fallen world (which was twisted by 19th-century Southerners into outright support for slavery); the persistent tendency of Christians to flatter governments who might be persuaded to support them and to turn a blind eye to (or even approve of) the atrocities committed by such governments; and the recurrent strain of anti-intellectualism and hostility to freedom within Christianity.
You’re disturbed that I’m disturbed? Well good, we can all be disturbed togehther.
Allah was the name of the “high god” of the pre-Islamic Arabs. However, Allah was not a moon god. That is a slander. The origins of this urban legend appear to be that “al-ilah” was the word used by the ancient Arabs to refer to their high god (it basically means “the god”), and at least one Arab group worshiped the moon god as the supreme god and thus called him al-ilah. I get this from a fundamentalist website, so I don’t know if it’s reliable. But even if true, it underlines the fact that “al-ilah” was the general term for the supreme deity. No one has provided any evidence that the Arabs at Mecca worshiped the moon god as the supreme deity.
Conclusion does not follow from the premises. Can you provide a second premise and write it as a valid syllogism? I don’t even know how you could do this, since you already have four terms. It is possible to worship God in a mistaken manner, or to have bad theology.
And as an orthodox Catholic Christian, I DO say that.
I would like to qualify this however - and I think Edwin will agree with me - that there is a “true Christianity” which may have not always been practiced historically, since Christianity is the true, revealed religion. You can’t say this of Islam.
Planten, obviously we disagree as to whether the Koran is revealed and as to whether Jesus and the Holy Spirit are consubstantial with the Father (Allah). That is the difference between Christians and Muslims. Let me simply note that in the Koran the Trinity is portrayed as being “Jesus, Mary, and Allah” - which it probably was for those heretics that it is referring to - and that Jesus never claimed that His mother is divine. However, the historical record is quite clear on Christ’s claim to be one with the Father - it is attested by ancient manuscripts of the Gospels (going back to the 1st century AD) and by contemporary pagan Roman and Jewish authors (Josephus). Also note that during the Arian debates three hundred years later, no “authentic” translation of the Gospels was ever produced - the text argued on was the same as the one we have now.
**Cecilianus, thanks for the reply. I had explained the Islamic view on the subject. Please note that Quran does not say Trinity is father, son and Mary. It simply says that some christian people were worshipping Jesus and his mother. That does not mean trinity. What Quran said is true even today. Some christians pray to Mary and Jesus, i.e. they worship them.
Some christians pray to Mary and Jesus, i.e. they worship them.
Planten, “praying to” Mary is not worshiping her; we are merely asking for her intercession before God. We believe that all the saved are made into a family - a “body”, used in a mystical sense - through God’s grace. So we pray for each other. Muslims also have a long tradition of praying to saints, especially Mary (Sayyidna Maryam); the Muslims’ love for Mary puts our Protestant brethren to shame. In Mary’s last home in Ephesus, there is a prayer room set aside for the Muslim pilgrims, alongside the Christian church there.
But all Christians worship Jesus, because He is God.
I’m not sure what incident you’re referring to, unless you mean the Regensburg Address in which Mohammed wasn’t even mentioned and the supposed criticism of Islam was in the middle of a quote (which the Pope then criticized) which was taken out of context by the secular media. I know that Muslims rush to defend Jesus; in America, they’re often the only ones any more.
Dear IRish Dude,
Holy cow! Physician, heal thyself - who are you to say that IrishDude is “not a Catholic anyway”? Have you never experienced temptation - or do you somehow think that the temptations you undergo are somehow purer or better than his? What do you think that spiritual direction and the sacrament of Penance are for? Is it apostasy to ask, in charity, for spiritual help on a place like this?
Never is the Holy Ghost referred to as an angel.
It refers to Jesus’s kingdom.
Now, they are obviously false in asserting He isn’t God. The point is that that’s apparently what he was saying
I guess this may be true in some cases, but my understanding of the Catholic church is that worship and prayer is different.
this is difference in narrations for Muslims.
Obvious false hood from apparent saying???
It was alright to preach to the people in the name of Allah and in the name of Jesus and in the name of HS (Holy Spirit). No harm. In fact it was necessary to do that and Jesus had advised that. But Jesus never said that make him and the Holy Spirit as a God. That is a mistake (misunderstanding).
In a word, yes. Whatever I say of God - that He is good, or that He is, or that He is spirit - is said “eminently” to use Thomist parlance; that is, every adjective or predicate I apply to Him is true in a much higher sense than the finite way in which it exists in creatures. He is spirit because He is the cause of spiritual beings, and lacks the limitations of matter.
I’m not sure I understood your question; by “we” I happened to only be referring to Catholics (although if Muslims happen to believe those things too, then great!).
).please forgive me for challenging this i had you mixed with another poster