Catholic democrats?

[Tyler_Smedley]

dbrown:

Casey Who. Dont’ know him or her, but I would vote for him or her on the basis that the person supports democratic platforms but does not support abortion.

Wait I though you were leaving this thread…then I took an nap for 2 hours and look what you guys have done…had a discussion without me…I am very disapointed…for that angry eyes!!!

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Besides Kerry claiming to be Catholic and supporting every single abortion law on the books, baring those that limit abortion…he was a liar, a unpatriotic metal stealing scary looking man. Seriously he looked kind of scary. But other then that I really didn’t like him.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

John Kerry was involved in the Winter Soldier project – a collection of “Viet Nam veterans” who had precious few veterans of any stripe and almost none from Viet Nam when he joined. They had produced a tissue of lies, which he read into the record in front of a congressional committee, thus giving legitimacy to their lies.

I thought much of this needed to be outed. I thought that certain missions were irregular, went south, because of command failure.
vern humphrey:

His fellow veterans – especially those who actually served with him – resented this.

How much of this was a darned if you do darned if you don’t situation? Did this information not have to be outed? Were vets not sitting on stuff that no body would talk about? The elephant in the room syndrome? Are you saying that Kerry was the wrong man to out it? Are you saying that Kerry outed the wrong information?
vern humphrey:

Those of us who suffered because of what he did consider he owes us an apology. What he did fueled the hated we experienced.

Yes, I sensed that there was something not right between the vets and Kerry despite his claim to fame as their champion.
vern humphrey:

On my second tour in Viet Nam, my wife was pregnant with her first child. It was twenty years before she told me what such people did to her – they singled her out, knowing her husband was in combat, and tried to make her cry by chanting that they hoped her husband would die in Viet Nam.

Yes, I remember. Dreadful. Shameful. I am heartened to see that people have the will to not repeat this behaviour. They seem on the surface to oppose the war but not the troops.
vern humphrey:

Hatred. Look at the posts you see from Democrats on these forums – full of hatred for Bush, for Republicans, and for everything else. But no positive ideas of any stripe.

Why so much hatred? What do they hate?
vern humphrey:

I know Wes personally. I was in the Army with him.

He’s Catholic. What is his position on abortion? He seems to be able to get things done. He did at least when Clinton wasn’t looking.
vern humphrey:

We can’t always have a Sir Michael Jackson around to control him, you know.

I have no idea what this means.

 

[jlw]

Tyler Smedley:

Besides Kerry claiming to be Catholic and supporting every single abortion law on the books, baring those that limit abortion…he was a liar, a unpatriotic metal stealing scary looking man. Seriously he looked kind of scary. But other then that I really didn’t like him.

Tyler, for goodness sake, please get of the fence about the man!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

I thought much of this needed to be outed. I thought that certain missions were irregular, went south, because of command failure…

Like what?
Ani Ibi:

How much of this was a darned if you do darned if you don’t situation? Did this information not have to be outed? Were vets not sitting on stuff that no body would talk about? The elephant in the room syndrome? Are you saying that Kerry was the wrong man to out it? Are you saying that Kerry outed the wrong information?

I say lies – and that’s what they were – help no one. Except for the man who cynically uses them to build his own political base.
Ani Ibi:

Yes, I sensed that there was something not right between the vets and Kerry despite his claim to fame as their champion.

I ran for Congress in '04 (First District of Arkansas). One of the guys on my staff was a Swiftie (a Swift Boat Veteran who served with Kerry.) There is very bad blood because of what he did when he came home.

They also point out that he was only there for 4 1/2 months. They feel he simply did the minimum and got out through a loophole. Officers should never leave their men.
Ani Ibi:

Yes, I remember. Dreadful. Shameful. I am heartened to see that people have the will to not repeat this behaviour. They seem on the surface to oppose the war but not the troops.

There’s no such animal as “opposed to the war but supporting the troops.”

The poet Bion said, “Boys throw stones at frogs in sport. But the frogs do not die in sport, but in earnest.”

It’s great fun to play games like “I oppose the war,” but the message it sends to the enemy is “Keep killing Americans, and eventually the anti-war movement will win.”

After the war, I worked for Colonel Floyd James Thompson. I helped him compile a report on his experiences as a Prisoner of War for 9 years. One thing that greatly added to his suffering was personal information gathered in the states by “anti-war protestors” and forwarded through the Russian Embassy to the North Viet Namese.
Ani Ibi:

Why so much hatred? What do they hate?

You’d have to ask them. When I try to engage them in talking about what we can do, working together for Arkansas (the poorest state in the Union) all I get is bile – no ideas or help.
Ani Ibi:

He’s Catholic. What is his position on abortion? He seems to be able to get things done. He did at least when Clinton wasn’t looking.

I have no idea what this means.

Among the things he did in Kosovo was order the British to attack the Russians when the latter sent a force into the airfield there.
People who knew him in the Army were not surprised at his rash and reckless order to the British.

Sir Michael Jackson, the British commander, refused, saying “I’m not going to start World War III for you.” Shortly after, Clark left his position as NATO commander – before his tour was up.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

They also point out that he was only there for 4 1/2 months. They feel he simply did the minimum and got out through a loophole. Officers should never leave their men.

I was not aware that he had left his men. What was the term of service in Nam? Did he serve a shorter time because he had pull?

There’s no such animal as "opposed to the war but supporting the troops.

Actually, if the truth be known, I agree with you. What I was saying is that it seems like some of the more destructive things which were happening in the anti-war movement during the Nam era are no longer happening.

Except in parts of Canada. But don’t get me going.

It’s great fun to play games like “I oppose the war,” but the message it sends to the enemy is “Keep killing Americans, and eventually the anti-war movement will win.”

It is demoralizing to learn that folk back home do not support the work you do when the work you do is war and exacts a horrible price on your own life and when you have agreed to do it to protect democracy. We don’t hear a lot of talk about democracy. But don’t get me going.

After the war, I worked for Colonel Floyd James Thompson. I helped him compile a report on his experiences as a Prisoner of War for 9 years. One thing that greatly added to his suffering was personal information gathered in the states by “anti-war protestors” and forwarded through the Russian Embassy to the North Viet Namese.

Wretched people.

You’d have to ask them. When I try to engage them in talking about what we can do, working together for Arkansas (the poorest state in the Union) all I get is bile – no ideas or help.

I’ve had no luck either.

Among the things he did in Kosovo was order the British to attack the Russians when the latter sent a force into the airfield there.
People who knew him in the Army were not surprised at his rash and reckless order to the British.

Sir Michael Jackson, the British commander, refused, saying “I’m not going to start World War III for you.” Shortly after, Clark left his position as NATO commander – before his tour was up

Was not part of the problem that Clark could not get the supplies or movements he needed?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

dbrown:

I feel that abortion is evil and has to be stopped but i will not ignore all the other evils in the world and only focus on abortion. I believe that abortion is the worst thing that occurs in todays society, but its not the only thing. Thats as simple as I can put it. God bless
p.s when I started this thread I stated that bush is not pro-life. he’s not he is pro birth. big difference. his policys do not help the newly born not help for medical no help for the mentally ill. our local mentall hospital is being closed because of the lack of state funds. If he was pro life he would be for all life. he shure didnt have a problem with killing all the people on death row in texas he wouldnt even think about stopping an execution… nor will he stop killing innocent people in other countries. That is how i conclude that he is pro birth not pro life. EVERYONE deserves LIFE.

What I do not think you realise is that all the other things are irrelevant if you are murdered before birth.:nope: Wars are terrible,but none of the wars has topped the “casualties” in the war on the unborn.Their life was erradicated for nothing.Hitler told the Germans that Jews were causing the social ills,they looked economically at their situation and targetted the Jews as well as others who were targetted,there were so many angendas pushed by Hitlers bunch.The same is true for abortion, they put the mills in minority poor neighborhoods(eugenics)then they use terms to describe the unborn to dehumanize the baby(change agentry)They proceed to tell the benifits of exterminating the unborn(social,economic reasons).There is an attempt in both cases to convince the target audience that the perpetrators(Catholics,Jews,Poles,unborn,ect.)are impeding their freedom,way of life or economic well being.Abortion trumps ALL other issues.God Bless

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

I was not aware that he had left his men. What was the term of service in Nam? Did he serve a shorter time because he had pull?

The term of service was one year. On my second tour, I went a couple of months over, because we had no qualified company commanders to replace me.

Kerry took advanatage of a Navy regulation that said you couldl eave if you had three Purple Hearts. The Swifties say he got Purple Hearts when he shouldn’t have – for scratches.
Ani Ibi:

Actually, if the truth be known, I agree with you. What I was saying is that it seems like some of the more destructive things which were happening in the anti-war movement during the Nam era are no longer happening.

Except in parts of Canada. But don’t get me going.

When the First Gulf War started, a Canadian friend told me, “Don’t send your deserters up here!”

I told him the story of the woman and the snake,http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
Ani Ibi:

It is demoralizing to learn that folk back home do not support the work you do when the work you do is war and exacts a horrible price on your own life and when you have agreed to do it to protect democracy. We don’t hear a lot of talk about democracy. But don’t get me going.

It kills soldiers – you will hear many a Viet Nam veteran say, “They’re not going to do to this generation what they did to ours!”
Ani Ibi:

I’ve had no luck either.

You can’t get them to give you positive ideas, I can’t get them to give me positive ideas. Could it be that they don’t HAVE any positive ideas?
Ani Ibi:
Was not part of the problem that Clark could not get the supplies or movements he needed?

Much of Clark’s problems were of his own making. Generals like Hugh Shelton and Tommy Framks are better able to tell you about that than I.

But you will notice when he declared he was running for President, you did NOT hear the thunder of combat boots as all the other retired generals came running to support him.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

When the First Gulf War started, a Canadian friend told me, “Don’t send your deserters up here!”

What did he mean?
vern humphrey:

I told him the story of the woman and the snake,http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Which is?
vern humphrey:

But you will notice when he declared he was running for President, you did NOT hear the thunder of combat boots as all the other retired generals came running to support him.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

No. I couldn’t hear the thunder of boots at all. I did look on the Hackworth site though and he seemed at least to be not agin 'im.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

What did he mean?

Canada took in a lot of deserters during the Viet Nam War – and had little joy from them.
Ani Ibi:

Which is?

A woman found a snake half frozen. She put it in her blouse, took it home, fed it and took it to bed with her. It bit her.

“Why did you bite me? I never did anything but kindness to you.”

“You knew I was a snake when you took me in.”
Ani Ibi:

No. I couldn’t hear the thunder of boots at all. I did look on the Hackworth site though and he seemed at least to be not agin 'im.

Other retired generals did not support him – and for a reason.

David Hackworth is hardly a man I’d look to for military advice and knowledge.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Vern: Canada took in a lot of deserters during the Viet Nam War – and had little joy from them.

Ani: Beg to differ. They were just the same as any of us. A lot of them were hardly more than children. They had a hard time. And sure they had second thoughts, guilt, remorse, all of that. So did we. None of us were really in a position of being able to change anything. So we did the best we could. Remember you had the draft then. I gather that you do not now. Is that true? Do you fault us for harbouring deserters? I mean really, as a Catholic, does amnesty hold little proportional meaning against all the suffering on all sides? If not, then how can we learn from Nam?

Vern: Other retired generals did not support him – and for a reason.

Ani: What was the reason?

Vern: David Hackworth is hardly a man I’d look to for military advice and knowledge.

Ani: Yet many do. Why not you? Gotta give reasons, vern. I’m not trying to buck you. I said I was a Canadian and needed to hear the scoop from you guys. As for Hackworth, well I dunno about that. Is he not your most decorated veteran? How much does that count for? Well, how much does it count for? Also, I gotta say, vern, sometimes I wish we had someone like Hackworth making trouble for our politicos up here. Sheesh don’t get me going about what our boys and girls in uniform have to put up with up here and no one to speak for them. Don’t even get me going.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

Ani: Beg to differ. They were just the same as any of us. A lot of them were hardly more than children. They had a hard time. And sure they had second thoughts, guilt, remorse, all of that. So did we. None of us were really in a position of being able to change anything. So we did the best we could. .

If you like them, keep them. But don’t ever count on them when the chips are down.
Ani Ibi:
Remember you had the draft then. I gather that you do not now. Is that true? .

We have an all-volunteer force. The pool of available manpower was outstripping our need even during the Viet Nam War. We don’t need the huge force a draft would produce.
Ani Ibi:
Do you fault us for harbouring deserters? I mean really, as a Catholic, does amnesty hold little proportional meaning against all the suffering on all sides? If not, then how can we learn from Nam? .

If you like them, keep them. But as I said, don’t ever count on them when the chips are down.
Ani Ibi:

Ani: What was the reason?.

He panicked under pressure, and issued an order that nearly got us into a war with the Russians! Generals are very leery of a possible Commander and Chief with a record like that.
Ani Ibi:

Ani: Yet many do. Why not you? Gotta give reasons, vern. I’m not trying to buck you. I said I was a Canadian and needed to hear the scoop from you guys. As for Hackworth, well I dunno about that. Is he not your most decorated veteran? How much does that count for? Well, how much does it count for? Also, I gotta say, vern, sometimes I wish we had someone like Hackworth making trouble for our politicos up here. Sheesh don’t get me going about what our boys and girls in uniform have to put up with up here and no one to speak for them. Don’t even get me going.

I don’t know Hackworth personally – but I have friends who served under him in Viet Nam. I have found many false statements in his columns – for example, his claim that the French did a crater analysis of the mortar shell that hit the Market Place in Sarajevo, and found it came from the Croat positions.

Now there are technical reasons why this is impossible, and any soldier would know it. And it is extremely dangerous to print falsehoods like this, given the situation at the time.

 

[aspawloski4th]

dbrown what do you think of my post late sundaY that I put everything into about how I vote? was it too much for you?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

I don’t know Hackworth personally – but I have friends who served under him in Viet Nam. I have found many false statements in his columns – for example, his claim that the French did a crater analysis of the mortar shell that hit the Market Place in Sarajevo, and found it came from the Croat positions.

Now there are technical reasons why this is impossible, and any soldier would know it. And it is extremely dangerous to print falsehoods like this, given the situation at the time.

1. I gather that it is dangerous to print anything about military operations. Point?
2. His advocacy of the vets and of those serving: you haven’t answered. An imperfect instrument to be sure. But would you throw the baby out with the bath water? Where would you folk be without a hothead loudmouth decorated vet with a taste for the typewriter and Larry King Live? Answer: in the Canadian Armed Forces. Sheesh. We should be so lucky to have someone who cares about our boys and girls in uniform. Boots would be nice too. Equipment that doesn’t blow up or shut down in the middle of operations. Oh, and the subs… well… Medics, enough of them, that would be nice too. And so on.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

dbrown go to this link it is written by the Pope,I think you will learn alot.In fact all of us can and will.God Bless

ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/JP2EVANG.HTM#Chapter%201

 

[vern_humphrey]

1) I gather that it is dangerous to print anything about military operations. Point?.

Blaming the wrong people for a henious crime is highly irresponsible. Doing so when you HAVE to know the evidence is false is much worse.

2) His advocacy of the vets and of those serving: you haven’t answered. An imperfect instrument to be sure. But would you throw the baby out with the bath water? Where would you folk be without a hothead loudmouth decorated vet with a taste for the typewriter and Larry King Live? Answer: in the Canadian Armed Forces. Sheesh. We should be so lucky to have someone who cares about our boys and girls in uniform. Boots would be nice too. Equipment that doesn’t blow up or shut down in the middle of operations. Oh, and the subs… well… Medics, enough of them, that would be nice too. And so on.

I’m not sure his advocacy helps. Much of what he says is false – we HAVE boots and other equipment, and where we have problems, the problems were being solved without him.

It’s like the famous case of Secretary Rumsfield being asked about armor kits for HMMWVs. You get the IMPRESSION there were none in that unit. In FACT the kits were in the unit, and all but 20 vehicles were armored, and those 20 scheduled for the ext morning.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

we HAVE boots

Our troops have boots too. A recent study noted that the boots provided inadequate protection from knee injuries. So a lot of our troops not only have boots but knee injuries too. Bonus! In any case this is waaaaaay off topic.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

Our troops have boots too. A recent study noted that the boots provided inadequate protection from knee injuries. So a lot of our troops not only have boots but knee injuries too. Bonus! In any case this is waaaaaay off topic.

Hoiw do they expect boots to protect against knee injuries?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

Hoiw do they expect boots to protect against knee injuries?

They don’t support the ankles. They are cheap boots.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

They don’t support the ankles. They are cheap boots.

Ours are pretty good – but let me point out to you that when you over-stress to the point that something breaks, good protection in one area simply means the breakage will occur somewhere else.

At one time there were a lot of broken ankles among skiiers. Better ankle protection resulted in a lot of broken knees.