Catholic League: There's a Homosexual Crisis in the Priesthood, Never was a

[El_Cid]

With all due respect to Mr. Donahue and the Catholic League the truth lies somewhere in the middle. This cases continue to turn up on a regular basis. To deny that some not all seminaries were hotbeds, excuse the pun, of homosexual activity is just naive. These pedophile priests, mostly homosexuals, are still out there. Despite the Bishops efforts to be politically correct this is a homosexual problem within the Church.

It will do no good to blame the media and hide our heads in the sand.

AJC

It is a homosexual problem.

 

[estesbob]

Hey,

I’m sorry, but after reading this thread I have noticed some faulty assumptions.

1. Equating suicide with being gay is one of the most irresponsible and arrogant comments I have ever had the misfortune to read. I hope you did not mean that.

This is a myth but it is a myth perpetuated by the homosexual “rights community.” For years they have claimed homosexual youth were three times more likely to commit suicide than heterosexual youths. It is this myth that leads people to believe that homosexuals are more prone to suicide

1. Look up some facts. The majority of children being molested are female. yellodyno.com/pdf/Child_Molestation_Prevention_Study.pdf

That was a comprehensive study done by Princeton University.

Totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. We’re talking about the homosexual priest issue. In that case 81% of those molested were male and 90% of those molested were victims of homosexual rape -not pediopilia

1. The majority of child abusers are heterosexual males. Again, same source, or you could use almost any other scientifically based source to back it up. This almost obviously follows the FACT that most of the children that are abused are female.

A very very misleading number. You are comparing the number of molestations committed by 97% of the population to the number of molestations committed by 3% of the population. Homosexuals make up 1 to 3% of the population but account for over 1/3 of all molestations. Accordingly a homosexual is five times more likely to be a molester than a heterosexual.

orthodoxytoday.org/articles/DaileyHomosexualAbuse.htm

4 Homosexuality is not a disorder, according to any reputable scientifically based source (such as the APA).

There was no peer-reviewed study that removed homosexuality from the list of disorders. It was done so by a plurality vote of the members at an APA convention in 1972, However this is not issue in this thread as we’re talking about Catholic teachings which clearly describe homosexual behavior as a disorder

1. Many studies have been completed that show, without a doubt, that homosexuality is not an active choice(avoiding the enviromental/genetic argument.

There have been no definitive studies that show homosexuality is genetic However even if it were engaging in homosexual behavior is obviously a choice

It is horrible to affiliate homosexuals as child molesters or even to insinuate that they are afflicted with some sort of disease.

As I have already ponited out homosexuals are five times more likely to be a molester than a heterosexual. And whatever it is they are afflicted with they arer engaging in a very sinful and very unhealthy lifestyle.

 

[mattyc4]

KathleenElsie:
First, to respond to Bob,

30% of gay youth attempt suicide. This has been repeated in a variety of studies. Not really a myth, Even if you believe it is a myth, fobbing it off as a “homosexual rights” problem is at best misguided, at worse callous. We are talking about children and suicide here. How can you not take issue and care? Who cares if you believe they are living a lifestyle you disagree with? They are still worthy people and deserve better than mistreatment.

Second, reports place homosexuals as anywhere from 4-10% of the population, with different studies having varied results. The generally accepted number is between 7 and 10 in academic circles.

Third, homosexuality was removed as a disorder because it was voted on by the APA. This is relevant. There are different intrepretations of homosexuality being a sin or not, depending on the priest you ask, and the translation you read. The seminary attached to my university is of the opinion that it is not a sin. However, this may or may not be the case, it is personal belief that matters here.

Fourth, Correct, there have been no definitive studies either way, Most studies seem to show a mixture of genetics and enviromental influence.

5th,
Mostly true. By numbers, heterosexuals males are much more likely to abuse children than homosexual males. How much more? Depends on what percent of the population is homosexual. Unhealthy and sinning lifestyle–maybe. My best friend is gay, and he is probably the best and most worthy person I know.

Kathleen,

Yes, that is a valid point–However if you looked at all-girls school, you would see the opposite.

Most accredited studies are in the middle of the debate, i would be extremely wary of any study that claimed it was completely a choice or completely genetic.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[estesbob]

First, to respond to Bob,

30% of gay youth attempt suicide. This has been repeated in a variety of studies. .

Comlete myth-it has been totally debunked.

The latest studies that expose the 30% urban legend appear in the December, 2001 issue of Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology. The author of these studies is Cornell University psychologist Ritch Savin-Williams.
Savin-Williams says previous homosexual teen suicide studies were flawed and exaggerated because they were drawn from group homes or runaway shelters where the most troubled teens gather. Researchers also took at face value the claims that these teens made about their attempts at suicide.

Savin-Williams surveyed a more representative group of teens. He focused on 349 students, ages 17 to 25. When these students told him they had tried to kill themselves, he asked them what method they had used.
Savin-Williams discovered the following:

• Over half of these reported suicide attempts turned out to be “thinking about it” rather than attempting it.
• One study of 83 women showed a true suicide rate of 13% for those who hadn’t attended a support group. (Between 7% and 13% of all teens have tried to kill themselves, according to latest figures.)
• Another survey of 266 college men and women found that teens who think they are homosexuals were not much more likely to have attempted suicide than straight students. Homosexual students were more likely to have reported “attempts,” but these turned out to be “thinking” about suicide rather than actually doing it.

Second, reports place homosexuals as anywhere from 4-10% of the population, with different studies having varied results. The generally accepted number is between 7 and 10 in academic circles.

The 10% firgure came from Kinsey and was based on interviews with ex convicts. There is conensus now that homosexuals make up at the most 3% of the population. The CDC places it at 2.%3

From a footnote to a friend of court brief on Lawrence vs Texas:

*The most widely accepted study of sexual practices in the United States is the National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS). The NHSLS found that 2.8% of the male, and 1.4% of the female, population identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. See Laumann, et al, The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994). This amounts to nearly 4 million openly gay men and 2 million women who identify as lesbian.” *

Planned Parenthood/Alan Guttmacher Institute study:

• Only 2.3% of males ages 20 to 39 said they had experienced a same-sex relationship in the past decade. Only 1.1% said they were exclusively gay.
• A 1989 U.S. survey indicated that no more than 6% of adults had any kind of same-sex experience. Less than 1% said they were exclusively gay.
• A 1992 French study found that only 1.4% of men and 0.4% of women said they had any same-sex contact in the past five years.
• In 1991, the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) provided data indicating that of the 6% who have ever experienced same-sex relations, the number of currently active homosexuals (at that time) was .06-0.7%. The source for this is: T.W. Smith, Planning Perspectives 23, May/June 1991).
  CONTNUED

 

[estesbob]

CONTINUED

quote]Third, homosexuality was removed as a disorder because it was voted on by the APA. This is relevant. There are different intrepretations of homosexuality being a sin or not, depending on the priest you ask, and the translation you read. The seminary attached to my university is of the opinion that it is not a sin. However, this may or may not be the case, it is personal belief that matters here.

Gee so maybe the American Cancer society shold vote out cancer as a disease. That would save a lot of money. And actually it is the teacihigs of the catholic Church that matter in a Cathoolic Forum.

Could you give us the name of the seminary that allegedly says homosexuality is not a sin? Is this a Catholic Seminary?

Fourth, Correct, there have been no definitive studies either way, Most studies seem to show a mixture of genetics and enviromental influence.

Before you asserted there WERE definitive studies that prove homosexuality is Genetic. Now you say they show it is a mixture. Can you link us to the stuides that say this.? Here some cites to support the contention it is not genetic:

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, president of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality has written: “Homosexuality is a developmental problem that is almost always the result of problems in family relationships, particularly between father and son. As a result of failure with father, the boy does not fully internalize male gender identity, and develops homosexuality. This is the most commonly seen clinical model.”

Dr. George Rekers, writing in Growing Up Straight, observes: "Many studies of homosexual patients as well as of nonpatient homosexuals have established a classic pattern of background family relations. The most frequent family pattern reported from the male homosexuals includes a binding, intimate mother in combination with a hostile, detached father

5th,
Mostly true. By numbers, heterosexuals males are much more likely to abuse children than homosexual males. How much more? Depends on what percent of the population is homosexual. Unhealthy and sinning lifestyle–maybe. My best friend is gay, and he is probably the best and most worthy person I know.

Ancedotal evidence proves nothing. And if your frined is an active homosexual the greatest act of love you could show them is try to get them to abandon that lifestlye

Again studies show that homosexuals are 5 times more likely to molest than heterosexual. The fact that a population of 297,000 has more cases of molestations than a population of 10 million is an irelevant statistic The truth is that statistically a child is much safer with a heterosexual than a hoimosexual

 

[goofyjim]

Wait just a cotton picking minute. Everyone claims that homosexuals are more prone to suicide then deny that the leading cause of suicide is among gay youth. You can’t have it both ways which is what you are trying to do. I am SSA and here to stay. I don’t subscribe to the gay agenda but I am not diseased either.

 

[goofyjim]

CONTINUED

Gee so maybe the American Cancer society shold vote out cancer as a disease. That would save a lot of money. And actually it is the teacihigs of the catholic Church that matter in a Cathoolic Forum.

Could you give us the name of the seminary that allegedly says homosexuality is not a sin? Is this a Catholic Seminary?

Before you asserted there WERE definitive studies that prove homosexuality is Genetic. Now you say they show it is a mixture. Can you link us to the stuides that say this.? Here some cites to support the contention it is not genetic:

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, president of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality has written: “Homosexuality is a developmental problem that is almost always the result of problems in family relationships, particularly between father and son. As a result of failure with father, the boy does not fully internalize male gender identity, and develops homosexuality. This is the most commonly seen clinical model.”

Dr. George Rekers, writing in Growing Up Straight, observes: "Many studies of homosexual patients as well as of nonpatient homosexuals have established a classic pattern of background family relations. The most frequent family pattern reported from the male homosexuals includes a binding, intimate mother in combination with a hostile, detached father

Ancedotal evidence proves nothing. And if your frined is an active homosexual the greatest act of love you could show them is try to get them to abandon that lifestlye

Again studies show that homosexuals are 5 times more likely to molest than heterosexual. The fact that a population of 297,000 has more cases of molestations than a population of 10 million is an irelevant statistic The truth is that statistically a child is much safer with a heterosexual than a hoimosexual

Thank God my brothers and sisters don’t feel that way. Otherwise I would never be allowed to be around their kids alone. Let’s keep distorting statistics to suit our misperceptions.

 

[estesbob]

Thank God my brothers and sisters don’t feel that way. Otherwise I would never be allowed to be around their kids alone. Let’s keep distorting statistics to suit our misperceptions.

Well if its any consolation statistically speaking children are safer with homosexuals than they are with members of their immediate families-especially uncles/ Does thaefact that homosexuals molest 5 times more than heterosexuals mean I should not let goofyjim around my childre-of course not although you probably wouldnt want to be around them!

. OTH it would appear that puting homosexuals in the Priesthood is a recipe for disaster. Not all homosexual Priests molested children but 90% of the children were molested by homosexual priests.

 

[goofyjim]

Well if its any consolation statistically speaking children are safer with homosexuals than they are with members of their immediate families-especially uncles/ Does thaefact that homosexuals molest 5 times more than heterosexuals mean I should not let goofyjim around my childre-of course not although you probably wouldnt want to be around them!

. OTH it would appear that puting homosexuals in the Priesthood is a recipe for disaster. Not all homosexual Priests molested children but 90% of the children were molested by homosexual priests.

Yes if they are being trained to ignore the part of the Catechism that says homosexuals need to be treated with dignity and respect I wouldn’t want to be around them.

 

[mattyc4]

A footnote in the landmark Lawrence case in a friend to the court brief is hardly evidence. Citing a source as biased as Dr. Nicolosi is unprofessional. Look at the clinic he runs. Of course he is going to find evidence to support his assertions. Cite a reputable source recognized by the APA. The APA states that attempting to “convert homosexuals” is extremely dangerous and almost entirely useless. They strongly strongly strongly believe that attempting to change someone’s sexuality is extremely dangerous and leads to depression and many other mental problems. The APA states, “There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.” Again, Dr. Rekers is an extremely biased source. Almost every other medical source not affiliated with religion would completely disagree. In matters of faith, consult a priest, in matters of science, consult a scientist or doctor. Rekers and his findings have been disproved and laughed at. There is an extremely small correlation, which is statistically insignificant, and correlation is not causation.

I never claimed it was completely a choice or completely genetic, i suggest you reread my original post.

Equating homosexuality and cancer by tacit comparison is distasteful to many.

Again, you spit in the face of statistics by saying a child is safer with a heterosexual man than a homosexual man. The APA, the Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the North American Council on Adoptable Children, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Academy of Family Physicians all state that a child is as likely to prosper with homosexual mentors and parents as heterosexual ones.

Planned Parenthood is somewhat of a fringe group and I believe is not recognized by the APA. Almost all your sources that you cite are not legitimate sources acknowledged by professionals. Find a different source. Look at these:

Buchanan, Wyatt. “Foley incident stirs up a stereotype about gay men”, 2006-10-07.
Marshall et al. (1988). Sexual offenders against male children: Sexual preference. Behaviour Research and Therapy, 26, 383-391
Freund et al. (1989). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and erotic age preference. Journal of Sex Research, 26, 107-117

Gibson, P. (1989), “Gay and Lesbian Youth Suicide”, in Fenleib, Marcia R. (ed.), Report of the Secretary’s Task Force on Youth Suicide, United States Government Printing Office reports that gay youth are more likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts.

Thanks

Matt

 

[estesbob]

A footnote in the landmark Lawrence case in a friend to the court brief is hardly evidence. Citing a source as biased as Dr. Nicolosi is unprofessional. Look at the clinic he runs. Of course he is going to find evidence to support his assertions. Cite a reputable source recognized by the APA. The APA states that attempting to “convert homosexuals” is extremely dangerous and almost entirely useless. They strongly strongly strongly believe that attempting to change someone’s sexuality is extremely dangerous and leads to depression and many other mental problems. The APA states, “There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.” Again, Dr. Rekers is an extremely biased source. Almost every other medical source not affiliated with religion would completely disagree. In matters of faith, consult a priest, in matters of science, consult a scientist or doctor. Rekers and his findings have been disproved and laughed at. There is an extremely small correlation, which is statistically insignificant, and correlation is not causation.

I never claimed it was completely a choice or completely genetic, i suggest you reread my original post.

Equating homosexuality and cancer by tacit comparison is distasteful to many.

Again, you spit in the face of statistics by saying a child is safer with a heterosexual man than a homosexual man. The APA, the Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the North American Council on Adoptable Children, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Academy of Family Physicians all state that a child is as likely to prosper with homosexual mentors and parents as heterosexual ones.

Planned Parenthood is somewhat of a fringe group and I believe is not recognized by the APA. Almost all your sources that you cite are not legitimate sources acknowledged by professionals. Find a different source. Look at these:

Buchanan, Wyatt. “Foley incident stirs up a stereotype about gay men”, 2006-10-07.
Marshall et al. (1988). Sexual offenders against male children: Sexual preference. Behaviour Research and Therapy, 26, 383-391
Freund et al. (1989). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and erotic age preference. Journal of Sex Research, 26, 107-117

Gibson, P. (1989), “Gay and Lesbian Youth Suicide”, in Fenleib, Marcia R. (ed.), Report of the Secretary’s Task Force on Youth Suicide, United States Government Printing Office reports that gay youth are more likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts.

Thanks

Matt

Both the cites you metioned are before the study I posted that showed it was a myth. Other than that you have provided no evidence whatsopever to back your assertion or refute the volumious data I have posted. All you have done is say that any study,group or individual who disagrees with your unsubtantiated claims can not be trusted.

 

[estesbob]

Yes if they are being trained to ignore the part of the Catechism that says homosexuals need to be treated with dignity and respect I wouldn’t want to be around them.

I have never said Homosexuals should not be treated with dignity. i just said they should not be Priests-an atitude that is in line with current Church Policy. As always you eqaute any criticism of homosexuality as a direct attack on you.

 

[mattyc4]

Both the cites you metioned are before the study I posted that showed it was a myth. Other than that you have provided no evidence whatsopever to back your assertion or refute the volumious data I have posted. All you have done is say that any study,group or individual who disagrees with your unsubtantiated claims can not be trusted.

haha, that is funny. All I’m saying is any study done by a biased source not recognized by the the various scientific authorities on the subject should not be used as evidence. There are plenty more studies. To combat your study, I will disect it for you since you seem to selectively report.
8% of males were homosexual or had homosexual leanings.
14% of females were homosexual or had homosexual feelings.

hmmm…I can give you more recent studies if you so desire and I can consult my textbook.

The seminary I was talking about earlier was the princeton university seminary.

Thanks
Matt

 

[KathleenElsie]

haha, that is funny. All I’m saying is any study done by a biased source not recognized by the the various scientific authorities on the subject should not be used as evidence. There are plenty more studies. To combat your study, I will disect it for you since you seem to selectively report.
8% of males were homosexual or had homosexual leanings.
14% of females were homosexual or had homosexual feelings.

hmmm…I can give you more recent studies if you so desire and I can consult my textbook.

The seminary I was talking about earlier was the princeton university seminary.

Thanks
Matt

? The same Princeton University that does all those studies that “debunks” the 'myths" of child abuse statistics? Or is there more then one Princeton? Their studies are notorious for there liberal leaning findings.

 

[Riley259]

A good read - Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption Into the Catholic Church

How did the American Catholic priesthood go from an image of wise, strong men like Spencer Tracy in Boys Town and Bing Crosby in Going My Way to an image of “pedophile priests”?
In Goodbye, Good Men, investigative reporter Michael S. Rose provides the shocking answer that the mainstream news media have missed.
He uncovers how radical liberalism, like that found on many college campuses, has infiltrated the Catholic Church and tried to overthrow her traditional beliefs, standards, and disciplines - especially Church teachings on sexuality. In bringing the “sexual revolution” into the Church, liberals have welcomed - and even preferred - radicalized active homosexuals to orthodox seminarians in the name of “diversity” and “tolerance.” That “tolerance” has now been exposed as a toleration of criminal acts.
Here, in stunning detail, is the story behind the headlines - the story that made those very headlines possible. As Dr. Alice von Hildebrand says, Goodbye, Good Men “holds the key to a phenomenon which, to many, is also an enigma: Why are so many seminaries empty? Michael S. Rose has the courage - a courage that many Church leaders lack - to give us the fearful but uncontestable answer: because vice has penetrated into many of them, and those who do not condone vice are excluded.”
A riveting work of extraordinary reporting, Goodbye, Good Men shows how the very institutions charged with inculcating Catholic theology and discipline have come to prefer gay priests to straight ones, pop psychology to religious devotions, and Playboy to the pope.

Goodbye! Good Catholics

Michael Rose’s book was indeed an eye opener. The Vatican states that those with deep-seated homosexual tendencies (despite promises of chasity) should not be admitted to the seminary…Period. I think it’s the only safe and prudent thing to do.

 

[mattyc4]

? The same Princeton University that does all those studies that “debunks” the 'myths" of child abuse statistics? Or is there more then one Princeton? Their studies are notorious for there liberal leaning findings.

There is only one Princeton University. What studies are you claiming are innaccuate in particular?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[KathleenElsie]

There is only one Princeton University. What studies are you claiming are innaccuate in particular?

Thanks,

Matt

I never said inaccurate. I said liberal leaning. My graduate work was in psy and I learned quite quickly that you can get stats to say what you want if you word the questions in the proper or is it improper way.

Matt what year are you in your studies? Stats and psy is fun to learn. But I have found it to be even interesting watching the changes taking place over the years with the political push to be accepting of everything and every behavior.

 

[goofyjim]

I never said inaccurate. I said liberal leaning. My graduate work was in psy and I learned quite quickly that you can get stats to say what you want if you word the questions in the proper or is it improper way.

Matt what year are you in your studies? Stats and psy is fun to learn. But I have found it to be even interesting watching the changes taking place over the years with the political push to be accepting of everything and every behavior.

I will state again that homosexual realtions are a sin. But same sex attraction is not a pscyhological disorder. Otherwise there would be a cure and there is none no matter what anyone purports to be different. Noone, not even the Church, requires that SSA be changed because there is no definitive proof that it can be. The only thing that can be expected is that they live chastely. That is possible.

 

[estesbob]

haha, that is funny. All I’m saying is any study done by a biased source not recognized by the the various scientific authorities on the subject should not be used as evidence. There are plenty more studies. To combat your study, I will disect it for you since you seem to selectively report.
8% of males were homosexual or had homosexual leanings.
14% of females were homosexual or had homosexual feelings.

hmmm…I can give you more recent studies if you so desire and I can consult my textbook.

The seminary I was talking about earlier was the princeton university seminary.

Thanks
Matt

I am waiting for you to back even ONE of your assertions. So far you have been unable to do so. Instead you attrack any study you dont agree with as not credible. Can you point out the flaws in the study’s i posted?? Do you have anything whatsoever to balck up the assertions you made in your original post?

I dont beleive the seminary you mentions is Cathoilc-as you seemed to imply. You also have not told us which priests have said homosexuality is not a sin. The fact is it appers we really cant trust much of anything you post…

 

[estesbob]

There is only one Princeton University. What studies are you claiming are innaccuate in particular?

Thanks,

Matt

I guess we could embrace you definition of an inacurate study-that is any study you dont agree with,