Catholic League: There's a Homosexual Crisis in the Priesthood, Never was a

[mattyc4]

I never said inaccurate. I said liberal leaning. My graduate work was in psy and I learned quite quickly that you can get stats to say what you want if you word the questions in the proper or is it improper way.

Matt what year are you in your studies? Stats and psy is fun to learn. But I have found it to be even interesting watching the changes taking place over the years with the political push to be accepting of everything and every behavior.

I am a sophmore torn between PSY and SOC at the moment. Yes, everything has become political. I also completely agree that you can use statistics to support almost any claim. Questions are almost impossible to be completely neutral. Yes, I agree that the world of academia is liberal leaning, but im not sure that is absolutely a bad thing. I think this debate hinges on what is genetic and what is not-- If sexual orientation is as immutable as race, gender, etc, then I think we would see an increased push in the general acceptance of homosexuality. It is a trying issue.

Where did you study?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[goofyjim]

I am waiting for you to back even ONE of your assertions. So far you have been unable to do so. Instead you attrack any study you dont agree with as not credible. Can you point out the flaws in the study’s i posted?? Do you have anything whatsoever to balck up the assertions you made in your original post?

I dont beleive the seminary you mentions is Cathoilc-as you seemed to imply. You also have not told us which priests have said homosexuality is not a sin. The fact is it appers we really cant trust much of anything you post…

It depends on what you mean by homosexuality. If you mean physical relations, yes it is a sin. If you define it as same sex attraction, which many do, it is not a sin.

 

[estesbob]

It depends on what you mean by homosexuality. If you mean physical relations, yes it is a sin. If you define it as same sex attraction, which many do, it is not a sin.

Thank you pointing that out the ten millionth time. Everyone here knows the difference between SSA and Homosexuality.

 

[mattyc4]

I am waiting for you to back even ONE of your assertions. So far you have been unable to do so. Instead you attrack any study you dont agree with as not credible. Can you point out the flaws in the study’s i posted?? Do you have anything whatsoever to balck up the assertions you made in your original post?

I dont beleive the seminary you mentions is Cathoilc-as you seemed to imply. You also have not told us which priests have said homosexuality is not a sin. The fact is it appers we really cant trust much of anything you post…

Thank you for the personal attack. Anything you infer does not mean I implied it. I have told you many times why your studies are viewed as biased. The organizations who did the studies are not supported by the APA. Some have even gone as far to say they are bigoted and hate-mongering, but I do not want to go there. Furthermore, you reported only partial infomation from the study you posted, I just posted more infomation from the same study. The flaw is not in the study, it is in your intrepretation of said study. Read it again. 8% and 14% of males and females, respectively, had homosexual leanings of some sort. What is confusing? I have stated all this before.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[estesbob]

haha, that is funny. All I’m saying is any study done by a biased source not recognized by the the various scientific authorities on the subject should not be used as evidence. There are plenty more studies. To combat your study, I will disect it for you since you seem to selectively report.
8% of males were homosexual or had homosexual leanings.
14% of females were homosexual or had homosexual feelings.

hmmm…I can give you more recent studies if you so desire and I can consult my textbook.

The seminary I was talking about earlier was the princeton university seminary.

Thanks
Matt

But Matt youve changed your definition. You said before that 10% was the consensus of the number of homosexsuals. Then you revised it to 4 to 10% were homosexsual Now you say
revised it \s about homosexual** feelings or** leanings"(whateve rthat is Of the 14% who clamed to have homosexual feelimgs only 1`% identified themsleves as homosexual.

Study after study both here and abroad puts the % at 1-3%. As I showed with the Lawrence footnote even many in the homosexual rights community acknowledges this.

 

[estesbob]

I am a sophmore torn between PSY and SOC at the moment. Yes, everything has become political. I also completely agree that you can use statistics to support almost any claim. Questions are almost impossible to be completely neutral. Yes, I agree that the world of academia is liberal leaning, but im not sure that is absolutely a bad thing. I think this debate hinges on what is genetic and what is not-- If sexual orientation is as immutable as race, gender, etc, then I think we would see an increased push in the general acceptance of homosexuality. It is a trying issue.

Where did you study?

Thanks,
Matt

Yoiu should consider being an accountant… Then you get to make things up as you go along. Like with many atheists in the accounting profession there are no absolute truths.

 

[goofyjim]

Yoiu should consider being an accountant… Then you get to make things up as you go along. Like with many atheists in the accounting profession there are no absolute truths.

If we want to get into semantics over the percentage, consider how many might be totally afraid to admit they lean towards homosexual feelings. What with all the stupid jokes and ridicule you have to go through. There are probably untold numbers who live as quietly as possible. So I don’t trust the 3% number either. That may be the number for active homosexuals but those who have the feelings are probably much more numerous. We will never know because there is no way to get a final consensus. Unless we remove the stigma associated with just being attracted to someone.

 

[estesbob]

If we want to get into semantics over the percentage, consider how many might be totally afraid to admit they lean towards homosexual feelings. What with all the stupid jokes and ridicule you have to go through. There are probably untold numbers who live as quietly as possible. So I don’t trust the 3% number either. That may be the number for active homosexuals but those who have the feelings are probably much more numerous. We will never know because there is no way to get a final consensus. Unless we remove the stigma associated with just being attracted to someone.

We have to go with studies-many done anonymosly so peope dont have to worry about being “outed” we cant just assume there are more homosexuals becuase that is our "gut "feeling. The consensus is its between 1 & 3%.

 

[mattyc4]

But Matt youve changed your definition. You said before that 10% was the consensus of the number of homosexsuals. Then you revised it to 4 to 10% were homosexsual Now you say
revised it \s about homosexual** feelings or** leanings"(whateve rthat is Of the 14% who clamed to have homosexual feelimgs only 1`% identified themsleves as homosexual.

Study after study both here and abroad puts the % at 1-3%. As I showed with the Lawrence footnote even many in the homosexual rights community acknowledges this.

10% is the generally accepted number as per the Kinsey study. You refuted it, I went to another study, you had issues with that (right or wrong?), so I used your own study. Furthermore, judging one by actions is almost always a superior indicator of truth rather then words.

 

[mattyc4]

Yoiu should consider being an accountant… Then you get to make things up as you go along. Like with many atheists in the accounting profession there are no absolute truths.

How am I making things up? I have cited numerous sources, and instead of reacting to all my points of my first two posts, you choose a small point of it. There is no such thing as absolute truth-- Moral Relativism is an awesome subject. Which is why you can never say something is intrinsically evil. Sometimes things done in the name of evil can be good.

Also, I am going to be a lawyer, not an accountant.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[goofyjim]

We have to go with studies-many done anonymosly so peope dont have to worry about being “outed” we cant just assume there are more homosexuals becuase that is our "gut "feeling. The consensus is its between 1 & 3%.

Just goes to prove my point. People have to be afraid of being out about who they find attractive. As long as that is the case we cannot have a consensus.

 

[mattyc4]

We have to go with studies-many done anonymosly so peope dont have to worry about being “outed” we cant just assume there are more homosexuals becuase that is our "gut "feeling. The consensus is its between 1 & 3%.

Keep in mind, with so many people who disapprove of homosexuality, the best indicator is homosexual activity, not self-identification of being homosexual. With so many people who consider homosexual activity intrinsically evil, many would not willingly associate or define themselves in a way that so many people despise. Again, your consensus is biased, as per my previous posts, for the reasons enumerated before.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[goofyjim]

Keep in mind, with so many people who disapprove of homosexuality, the best indicator is homosexual activity, not self-identification of being homosexual. With so many people who consider homosexual activity intrinsically evil, many would not willingly associate or define themselves in a way that so many people despise. Again, your consensus is biased, as per my previous posts, for the reasons enumerated before.

Thanks,
Matt

While I am in agreement on the sinfulness of homosexual activity, I will stand by your studies mentioned because you and I are saying the same thing.

 

[mattyc4]

While I am in agreement on the sinfulness of homosexual activity, I will stand by your studies mentioned because you and I are saying the same thing.

Thank you. I completely agree and feel pretty strongly about the point.

Thanks
Matt

 

[estesbob]

10% is the generally accepted number as per the Kinsey study. You refuted it, I went to another study, you had issues with that (right or wrong?), so I used your own study. Furthermore, judging one by actions is almost always a superior indicator of truth rather then words.

\

Homosexual “feelings” is not an action" For instance if I admit to having once had “feelings” for my neighbors wife doeas that make me a rapist?

Again even of those who said they had “once” had homosexual feelings only 1% said it developed into homosexuality.

 

[goofyjim]

\

Homosexual “feelings” is not an action" For instance if I admit to having once had “feelings” for my neighbors wife doeas that make me a rapist?

Again even of those who said they had “once” had homosexual feelings only 1% said it developed into homosexuality.

According to your study. Why is it that those studies that show a higher number are accused of being biased and yours get away without that? I automatically presume that every study is going to biased by either the right or the left. As long as people are afraid and stigmatized for feeling one way we will NEVER get a consensus.

 

[estesbob]

Keep in mind, with so many people who disapprove of homosexuality, the best indicator is homosexual activity, not self-identification of being homosexual. With so many people who consider homosexual activity intrinsically evil, many would not willingly associate or define themselves in a way that so many people despise. Again, your consensus is biased, as per my previous posts, for the reasons enumerated before.

Thanks,
Matt

You have shown no bias in any of the studies I listed other than you dont like the oprganizations tha did them. I think Plnned Parenthood is one of the most evil orangizations in the history of the world BUT their studies, like all studies ,rise and fall on their own regardless of who did them. You would have to show problems with their methology to refute the studies(like I did with Kinsey). The other poblem you have is that study after study shows the same thing. i doubt if you can find a study in the last 10 years that shows homosexuality being above 3%

 

[mattyc4]

\

Homosexual “feelings” is not an action" For instance if I admit to having once had “feelings” for my neighbors wife doeas that make me a rapist?

Again even of those who said they had “once” had homosexual feelings only 1% said it developed into homosexuality.

You missed the point of my post.

It makes you one who coveted another mans’ wife.

Just because you say you dont have homosexual feelings does not mean you do not.

All this is getting rather distant to the topics previously discussed.

Thanks
Matt

 

[estesbob]

You missed the point of my post.

It makes you one who coveted another mans’ wife.

Just because you say you dont have homosexual feelings does not mean you do not.

All this is getting rather distant to the topics previously discussed.

Thanks
Matt

Say what?! At any rate i gotta go cook supper. Hablemos manyana

 

[mattyc4]

You have shown no bias in any of the studies I listed other than you dont like the oprganizations tha did them. I think Plnned Parenthood is one of the most evil orangizations in the history of the world BUT their studies, like all studies ,rise and fall on their own regardless of who did them. You would have to show problems with their methology to refute the studies(like I did with Kinsey). The other poblem you have is that study after study shows the same thing. i doubt if you can find a study in the last 10 years that shows homosexuality being above 3%

First off, you did not show any problems with the Kinsey Studies. There are some problems, but for the sake of argument of the current discussion, i’ll cede the point temporarily.

Yes, I think Planned Parenthood is morally wrong. Also, as stated before, you can phrase the question in ways to change the results. Subtle cues, slight changes of words, and coloring the question all effects the results. Furthermore, Planned Parenthood is a discredited group so I would not believe anything that they claim. Studies can be intrinsically biased, so the results can be nonsensical and lead to false conclusions. You have not shown study after study. You have shown ONE study that is easily turned into an argument that the gay population could be anywhere between 8-14%. There are plenty of studies done out there that show a higher rate. I would like to see a study done by a non-biased group recognized and certified by the APA.

Thanks
Matt