Catholic nurse forced to participate in abortion, lawsuit filed

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Irish_Becca said:
I am working on a nursing degree, and this terrifies me. I will never participate in an abortion. As a previous poster mentioned, I would help care for a woman after an abortion, though. I hope to work at a truly Catholic hospital.
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Same here. I’m really having serious second thoughts with all that’s going on in our country, especially if this healthcare reform goes through.

My biggest fear is that by the time I finish school, I will be so far in debt with student loans that I will have no choice but to continue working in the nursing field until they are paid off, no matter what I’m required to do in that field by that time. At this point, I could get a part-time job at McDonalds to pay off what debt I already have. That won’t be the case if I finish the degree.

I will have no options at that time. And if I lose my job because I refuse to participate in an abortion, I will be in huge trouble with the debt I have to the gov’t.
 
So does the nurse incur the penalty of excommunication?

Does Canon Law make an exception for this sort of thing? I remember in Brazil everyone who participated was excommunicated.
 
www.stoptheabortionmandate.com

For those serious about wanting to know what we can do, click on the above link and follow the instructions, it is easy and with just a few clicks of your mouse, you can be on the page to fill out the forms and let your Senators and Congressmen know how you feel about this, do it now.
 
DorianGregorian said:
So does the nurse incur the penalty of excommunication?

Does Canon Law make an exception for this sort of thing? I remember in Brazil everyone who participated was excommunicated.
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I don’t think so. The excommunication for abortion includes that one must know of the excommunication penalty and proceed with full consent. It does not apply to coersed situations.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
I hope she wins her lawsuit. This is a terrible situation.

That being said, I have to object to the word “forced” in the title. We throw that term around too loosely. She had choice in this situation between her job and her conscience. While the consequences of losing your job are serious, it isn’t life-threatening, and I don’t think we should consider that kind of pressure to literally be “force” in the sense that we have no choice.

I would just hate to hear catholics start whining about being “forced” to participate in abortions, and going along with it, when in fact the only threat that should be serious enough to make us participate in murder would possibly be the threat of being murdered ourselves. (Hopefully even that threat wouldn’t be enough).
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I definitely agree. This is one of the first things that came into my mind when I heard the story. It’s horrible all around.

To be able to handle big trials like that, we need to train ourselves through perseverance with Christ in smaller trials first, I think.
 
TeresaAnn said:
I feel bad for the nurse who will live with the memory forever.

I wouldn’t be able to do it. If I tried I’m sure I would have had to leave the room (probably sick) in the middle of the procedure if I could even go in the room in the first place. You can’t predict how someone who strongly believes it’s murder would react. They took a real risk. For all I know I would go berserk or something, trying to prevent it. They certainly would have to pay for some sort of Post Traumatic Stress therapy and probably time off afterwards.

I’m sure I would let myself be fired first. Couldn’t imagine being anywhere near it.

Then the lawsuit to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone else.

Sometimes people just don’t think :nope:
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Very true, and well said.
 
I think that this is incredibly sad and sickening. How they could possibly force someone to participate in something that said person thinks is immoral and still sleep at night is beyond me. I hope this nurse wins the lawsuit. Don’t we have laws against this kind of thing? 🤷:confused:
 
DorianGregorian said:
So does the nurse incur the penalty of excommunication?

Does Canon Law make an exception for this sort of thing? I remember in Brazil everyone who participated was excommunicated.
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Perhaps. I think she does, although the circumstances mitigate against the idea that she is in mortal sin. Still, this is a situation easily remedied and should be addressed in the confines of confession. It obviously weighs heavily on her conscience and there can be no more healing words than the words of absolution.

No, we can not judge people in this situation. Instead, we need to pray for her and all the Irish Becca’s of the world that they (and we) have the fortitude to stand when the test comes. It is a trial, but an inevitable one in this corrupt world and this corrupt nation we live in.
 
masondoggy said:
Same here. I’m really having serious second thoughts with all that’s going on in our country, especially if this healthcare reform goes through.

My biggest fear is that by the time I finish school, I will be so far in debt with student loans that I will have no choice but to continue working in the nursing field until they are paid off, no matter what I’m required to do in that field by that time. At this point, I could get a part-time job at McDonalds to pay off what debt I already have. That won’t be the case if I finish the degree.

I will have no options at that time. And if I lose my job because I refuse to participate in an abortion, I will be in huge trouble with the debt I have to the gov’t.
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File for chapter 7 or chapter 13 and get a fresh start.
 
antunesaa said:
File for chapter 7 or chapter 13 and get a fresh start.
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#1 You can’t bankrupt student loan debt.

#2 It would be dishonest to take the loans out if I’m planning to just file bankruptcy if it doesn’t work out.
 
Holly3278 said:
I think that this is incredibly sad and sickening. How they could possibly force someone to participate in something that said person thinks is immoral and still sleep at night is beyond me. I hope this nurse wins the lawsuit. Don’t we have laws against this kind of thing? 🤷:confused:
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This is exactly why I ask people to go to this site and make their voices be heard NOW
with both your Representatives and with Congress for your States.

Abortion is NOT healthcare.

Put conscience protections into the healthcare bill – no doc should be forced to do abortions www.stoptheabortionmandate.com
Support and affirm all life – don’t let Obama ration our healthcare www.stoptheabortionmandate.com
Everybody’s taxes, yes, yours too, could be increased to help pay for abortions www.stoptheabortionmandate.com
President Obama, how is forcing me to pay for abortions finding “common ground”? www.stoptheabortionmandate.com
 
Neil_Anthony said:
She had choice in this situation between her job and her conscience. While the consequences of losing your job are serious, it isn’t life-threatening, and I don’t think we should consider that kind of pressure to literally be “force” in the sense that we have no choice.
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So anything short of life-threatening can be done to punish people for having the “wrong” opinion?

So why not have a couple of thugs punch her in the stomach and threaten further violence if she doesn’t do abortions. That’s not considered force by your standard. A stomach punch is not life threatening, and neither are threats.

Also, losing a job CAN be life threatening. One loses health insurance and those who need life-saving medications have to choose between eating and medicine. Should one starve or die from lack of medication?

Equal rights under the law. Even for those who have “wrong” opinions. What a radical concept!
 
BobCatholic said:
So anything short of life-threatening can be done to punish people for having the “wrong” opinion?

So why not have a couple of thugs punch her in the stomach and threaten further violence if she doesn’t do abortions. That’s not considered force by your standard. A stomach punch is not life threatening, and neither are threats.

Also, losing a job CAN be life threatening. One loses health insurance and those who need life-saving medications have to choose between eating and medicine. Should one starve or die from lack of medication?

Equal rights under the law. Even for those who have “wrong” opinions. What a radical concept!
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You’re putting words in my mouth. Apparently you don’t understand the difference between co-ercion, force, enticement, grave fear, etc. If you were interested in these distinctions I’m sure you could look them up on the web.

Your post is insulting and polemical, intended to cause an argument. Not going there.
 
forced

–adjective
  1. enforced or compulsory: forced labor.
    2. strained, unnatural, or affected: a forced smile.
  2. subjected to force.
  3. required by circumstances; emergency: a forced landing of an airplane.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/forced

I think the above definition substantiates the article correctly using the word force.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
You’re wrong Bob. A Catholic can’t kill people just because its his job. You can’t take a job that involves killing people, even if you need the money.
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Abortionists do this all the time.

And soon Catholics will be required to do abortions or starve.

The USA was a nice country, I’m going to miss it when the statists force their will on others.
 
BobCatholic said:
Abortionists do this all the time.

And soon Catholics will be required to do abortions or starve.

The USA was a nice country, I’m going to miss it when the statists force their will on others.
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Bob,
There are no abortionists in the church. They are excommunicated. The fact that you need money won’t justify doing it. You have to be ready to make a choice if it comes to that.
Neil
 
Neil_Anthony said:
Bob,
There are no abortionists in the church. They are excommunicated.
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They may be excommunicated, but they are still Catholic. Excommunication does not remove the seal of baptism.
The fact that you need money won’t justify doing it.
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I’m not justifying anything.

I’m saying that it is force when someone is facing the loss of their job for not doing abortions.
 
canadianguy1143 said:
forced

–adjective
  1. enforced or compulsory: forced labor.
    2. strained, unnatural, or affected: a forced smile.
  2. subjected to force.
  3. required by circumstances; emergency: a forced landing of an airplane.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/forced

I think the above definition substantiates the article correctly using the word force.
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Oh thanks for pointing that out, I was only thinking of the first definition. NOW I get it 🙂
 
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