Catholic Parish Part of Gay Pride Parade in NYC

[Ockham]

Part of the problem, Larkin, is that there has been a lot of ‘re-writing’ in modern society. And it’s not always correct. . .not even in the hallowed halls of ‘science.’

I’m old enough to remember that the American Medical Association in the 1980s spoke out strongly against consumption of eggs and coffee, with studies showing how ‘dangerous’ these things were. Studies today show no such thing.

I remember in the 1980s when the AMA told us to have our infants sleep on their bellies to decrease SIDS. . .followed a couple of years later by being told to have them sleep propped on the side, and then ‘on the back’. Each time, we were told that NOT having them sleep in the ‘preferred’ way would put them ‘at risk’ for SIDS. . .

I remember when an alcoholic was told to engage in ‘responsible’ drinking, or was told to prove his ‘strength’ by putting himself in situations where he would be ‘tempted’, and that this was necessary for a ‘cure’.

I remember when the American Psychological Association "removed’ homosexuality as a disorder, and when they suggested that pedophilia could be cured and the offenders given a ‘second chance.’

I remember when Pluto was taught to be the 9th planet, and when it was ‘downgraded.’

So just because something is said to be a ‘truth’ one day doesn’t ‘guarantee’ it, speaking solely from the ‘human’ perspective. If you want an ‘eternal truth’, you need to check with God ==and luckily enough, He actually left us a Church with the authority to tell us what is, and what isn’t, eternal truth.

Wow. Great post.

Larkin, I’ll second this post and suggest to you that all the information you need has been provided here. The Church doesn’t hate you, it loves you and wants you to spend your eternity in Heaven. To get there you have to live as sin-free life here as possible. Regular Confession, prayer, obedience to Christ’s Church, and humility should get you there. May God bless you.

 

[larkin31]

Wow. Great post.

Larkin, I’ll second this post and suggest to you that all the information you need has been provided here. The Church doesn’t hate you, it loves you and wants you to spend your eternity in Heaven. To get there you have to live as sin-free life here as possible. Regular Confession, prayer, obedience to Christ’s Church, and humility should get you there. May God bless you.

I have never said that the Catholic Church hates me. I am married to a Catholic and was married in a Catholic church.

And so you know, I do not consider those who post here primarily focused on “living as sin-free as possible.” ANd I include myself. I just figure that there are way more important acts of charity and mercy and ministry and avoiding of sin to take care of than to respond to this agnostic or other non-Catholics on CA. So I take your advice with a grain of salt. But I do not reject it, either.

 

[larkin31]

Part of the problem, Larkin, is that there has been a lot of ‘re-writing’ in modern society. And it’s not always correct. . .not even in the hallowed halls of ‘science.’

I’m old enough to remember that the American Medical Association in the 1980s spoke out strongly against consumption of eggs and coffee, with studies showing how ‘dangerous’ these things were. Studies today show no such thing.

I remember in the 1980s when the AMA told us to have our infants sleep on their bellies to decrease SIDS. . .followed a couple of years later by being told to have them sleep propped on the side, and then ‘on the back’. Each time, we were told that NOT having them sleep in the ‘preferred’ way would put them ‘at risk’ for SIDS. . .

I remember when an alcoholic was told to engage in ‘responsible’ drinking, or was told to prove his ‘strength’ by putting himself in situations where he would be ‘tempted’, and that this was necessary for a ‘cure’.

I remember when the American Psychological Association "removed’ homosexuality as a disorder, and when they suggested that pedophilia could be cured and the offenders given a ‘second chance.’

I remember when Pluto was taught to be the 9th planet, and when it was ‘downgraded.’

So just because something is said to be a ‘truth’ one day doesn’t ‘guarantee’ it, speaking solely from the ‘human’ perspective. If you want an ‘eternal truth’, you need to check with God ==and luckily enough, He actually left us a Church with the authority to tell us what is, and what isn’t, eternal truth.

I understand. Those looking for “eternal truths” tend to find what they seek in the writings of religion. I actually think that this human impulse is one of the primary reasons that human cultures make religions (there have been many many over the millenia, after all).

 

[Ockham]

I have never said that the Catholic Church hates me. I am married to a Catholic and was married in a Catholic church.

And so you know, I do not consider those who post here primarily focused on “living as sin-free as possible.” ANd I include myself. I just figure that there are way more important acts of charity and mercy and ministry and avoiding of sin to take care of than to respond to this agnostic or other non-Catholics on CA. So I take your advice with a grain of salt. But I do not reject it, either.

There is nothing more important than where you will spend eternity. Mortal sin will necessary put one in Hell and that’s not a good thing.

If you wish to take up the atheist/moral relativist position then start a new thread or seek answers in the Apologetic forum on this site. This thread is about a Jesuit parish condoning sinful behaviour.

As Carla said on an episode of Cheers, Catholicism “is not a religion for whimps”. Jesus Christ didn’t come down to Earth, take the form of a mortal, preach for three, years, suffer and die on a Cross for no reason. Christ calls us to live as sin-free as possible. In our daily lives, in our life choices, in everything we do. It is the ultimate challenge and one with the greatest reward and punishment.

 

[sauce]

This was the notice handed out at the service. I don’t think you read it:

NYC’s 41st Annual LGBT Pride March
*Sunday, June 27, 2010

The Church of St. Francis Xavier is the only Roman Catholic Church in New York City—maybe one of a handful in the world—to participate in the Pride March. We welcome all, as did Jesus. So we ask you to consider walking with the LGBT ministries on Pride Sunday, June 27, and represent a church that truly lives the Gospel. Many of us will attend the 9:00 am or 11:30 am Mass and then head uptown to where the group will meet [location to be determined on June 21].

Each year, through our presence and our handing out of flyers, a number of people find their way to St. Francis Xavier to return to the sacraments and to find their place in the Catholic Church.

We look forward to spending this day of celebration, ministry and the living out of our mission statement together as a parish. If you have any questions, please e-mail SFXWomen@aol.com or SFXGCGroup@gmail.com, or call (917) 297-6804.*

The purpose is to bring Catholics back to the sacraments. Isn’t that what you want?

This is an interesting Question. Does another Catholic have the moral right to question another’s confession? Do we have the right to observe and guess what someone else is saying in confession? We don’t know what they confess or if they are making a bad confession or a good confession. Or if they are confessing the sins we think they should be confessing. So, what does the return to the sacraments imply?

We go in good faith. But there’s a whole lot of sins out there that a lot of us don’t own up to anyway. That’s why we need Christ. A true transformation only comes from Him anyway. I think everyone means well. And everyone has struggles in life. So no one should be attacking someone else. If it isn’t the sixth commandment it’s the other 9 we have problems with.

Life is the great equalizer.

 

[larkin31]

There is nothing more important than where you will spend eternity. Mortal sin will necessary put one in Hell and that’s not a good thing.

If you wish to take up the atheist/moral relativist position then start a new thread or seek answers in the Apologetic forum on this site. This thread is about a Jesuit parish condoning sinful behaviour.

As Carla said on an episode of Cheers, Catholicism “is not a religion for whimps”. Jesus Christ didn’t come down to Earth, take the form of a mortal, preach for three, years, suffer and die on a Cross for no reason. Christ calls us to live as sin-free as possible. In our daily lives, in our life choices, in everything we do. It is the ultimate challenge and one with the greatest reward and punishment.

Justice is in our control in the here and now. It seems a very noble cause; indeed, the highest. You can worry about your eternal soul. I do not worry about yours or mine. I’d rather fix what’s wrong here than gamble on the possibility of the eternal.

Again, if that is priority number 1, then I will assume that that is what indeed you are working on here. And elsewhere.

 

[Ockham]

What ‘justice’ are you seeking to control here?

Gays are not free to marry in the Church. If someone doesn’t like that they don’t have to go to church. Sodomy is a mortal sin and leads to Hell, but you can’t be arrested for it in Western nations. You sure can in Islamic though.

Maybe your time and energy would be better spent correcting the injustices against homosexuals in Persia than defending a Jesuit Gay Pride Parade particiaption in New York.

 

[larkin31]

What ‘justice’ are you seeking to control here?

The justice of a maligned and abused class of citizens in the state and country in which I have a political vote to make a difference.

And yes, maybe I should look elsewhere. Perhaps we all should.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Justice is in our control in the here and now. It seems a very noble cause; indeed, the highest. You can worry about your eternal soul. I do not worry about yours or mine. I’d rather fix what’s wrong here than gamble on the possibility of the eternal.

Again, if that is priority number 1, then I will assume that that is what indeed you are working on here. And elsewhere.

wrong here only according to your standards, but we go by God’s standards and not yours. just bcause you dont believe in God, it doesnt mean we dont.

 

[larkin31]

wrong here only according to your standards, but we go by God’s standards and not yours. just bcause you dont believe in God, it doesnt mean we dont.

I can’t understand the grammar of this reply.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Ok, from what we know from those parishioners who commented (see FaceBook and YouTube video) These are people who are practicing and living within sin.

Next, fact : CCC:

1385** To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."218 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.**

1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

Now, confession needs contrition, contrition is feeling sorry for the sins we’ve commited and not wanting to commit that sin again.

Fact: Through those comments from those lesbians, they celebrate their lives with their partners! They celebrate the idea that they’ve been accepted “just the way they are”. Does that sound like contrition? Does that sound like they promise to not sin again? Does that sound like they’re going to go out and separate from their “partner” so as to be obedient to God?

Now if I keep kicking you in the shins, over and over, and then I say “I’m sorry” then kick you in the shins after my apology, am I really sorry?

1451** Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50 **

**Canon Law **

Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning.

Can. 987 To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God.

So that means that being contrite and wanting to “go and sin no more” is all part of a VALID confession. The priest could give absolution but the conditions on the part of the penitent aren’t met even if those of the priest are.

So in the end, can we observers “judge” whether these confessions before receiving the Holy Eucharist? Let’s say we can critically observe the facts and make righteous judgement… NOT that they are going to go to hell, but that they are in DANGER of it if they don’t amend their ways. Heck there might be a few that have amended their ways and found forgiveness, but from these other statements, it sounds like many (through acceptance by this church) are in danger.

 

[Ockham]

The justice of a maligned and abused class of citizens in the state and country in which I have a political vote to make a difference.

And yes, maybe I should look elsewhere. Perhaps we all should.

That’s your perogative just as Catholics are free to voice their opposition to gay marriage, abortion, etc and vote accordingly.

“We” don’t need to look elsewhere as most here know they’ve found the eternal Truth.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The justice of a maligned and abused class of citizens in the state and country in which I have a political vote to make a difference.

And yes, maybe I should look elsewhere. Perhaps we all should.

“Maligned and abused class of citizens?”

Oh, wait. I get it. Good for you–you’re going to stand up for the Christians in our states and countries who are being maligned and abused for trying to live according to their Christian teachings. I’m all for that.

 

[larkin31]

That’s your perogative just as Catholics are free to voice their opposition to gay marriage, abortion, etc and vote accordingly.

Of course. I expect no less and would never try to prevent it nor have I ever suggested here that you should vote any other way. Most of the political bullying on CA has gone the other way (that I have witnessed).

As I said. Gay marriage was repealed in my state and I accept that. The majority of votes went against my position. That is the way the founders set things up, and I respect and revere that process. It is the best in the world.

 

[larkin31]

“Maligned and abused class of citizens?”

Oh, wait. I get it. Good for you–you’re going to stand up for the Christians in our states and countries who are being maligned and abused for trying to live according to their Christian teachings. I’m all for that.

When this happens in my presence I do stand up for it. But it is very rare in my experience.

But what Christians are “maligned” for “trying to live according to their Christian teachings”? Usually the debates only begin over law, which is more than simply “trying to live according to their teachings”. Who tries to interfere with, say, your household or your parish’s services, or your private prayer, or your individual practices of the sacraments?

 

[Truth_Fully]

Learn what the Church teaches, and notice that these statements made by Catholics who follow Church teachings are made in love. Yes, we say our opinions and we fight back when we are attacked, but did you not see what this “Church” is doing? They are giving the Sacrament of the Eucharist to people who are practicing and living in sin (which this “church” encourages, according to comments made by the GL community in that “church”).

This is detrimental to their souls! Do you understand that?? Jesus said that what is bound by the Church is bound in heaven. It is bound that we follow the Church Tradition and teaching. We have to be in a state of grace to receive the Body of Christ otherwise … 1 Corinthians 11:29 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body

Do you understand what’s happening here? Do you really think this Church is “loving” the parishioners by allowing them to eat and drink damnation upon themselves?

This is truly the heart of the issue. It’s not a matter of us individuals being offended by what is promoted in this parish, it is that GOD Himself is being desecrated, day after day, Mass after Mass. How can the priests of this parish get away with this?

As for the accusation that posts here have been “unloving” and “bigoted” and “judgmental”…they are exactly the opposite of that. It is precisely because of loving motivations that people here are trying innumerable ways to help others to understand God’s Eternal Truth.

 

[Truth_Fully]

I would just also like to thank all those who have so clearly and accurately defended the teachings of the Church. It is wonderful to know that there are smart, faithful, obedient Catholics out there who truly believe what we are taught to believe - and are willing to stand up for it.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

When this happens in my presence I do stand up for it. But it is very rare in my experience.

But what Christians are “maligned” for “trying to live according to their Christian teachings”? Usually the debates only begin over law, which is more than simply “trying to live according to their teachings”. Who tries to interfere with, say, your household or your parish’s services, or your private prayer, or your individual practices of the sacraments?

Surely you don’t think my practice of Christianity is limited to an hour on Sunday at mass, or to private prayer or reception of the sacraments?

Christianity is something that I live 24/7 in all areas of my life.

So in the free exercise of my speech, if as a Christian I speak the truth in love and get libeled as a bigot or hater, you’ll stand up for my right to free speech, right? You won’t insist that I ‘limit’ it only to my church or in private prayer, right?

 

[Truth_Fully]

Apropos:

Without truth, freedom becomes prevarication of the powerful, says Pope. …

 

[larkin31]

Surely you don’t think my practice of Christianity is limited to an hour on Sunday at mass, or to private prayer or reception of the sacraments?

Christianity is something that I live 24/7 in all areas of my life.

So in the free exercise of my speech, if as a Christian I speak the truth in love and get libeled as a bigot or hater, you’ll stand up for my right to free speech, right? You won’t insist that I ‘limit’ it only to my church or in private prayer, right?

As long as you don’t actually libel or slander someone (the law is specific), then I fully support your right to say and do whatever you please. Hit the streets with signs! Have Catholic Pride marches! I even support your right as a Catholic to march in a gay pride parade! I even support your right to call someone a bigot when you think it is true!