Catholic Position on the Masonic Lodge

[Marie]

>>Before Free Masons may go from one degree to another in their lodge, they have to swear an oath each time, consenting to their own mutilation and death if they reveal any masonic secrets, such oaths are immoral.<<

First, Masons will tell you, and I have spoken to many, that the “penalties” of the oath are explained before they take the oath as being symbolic. Second, why would that be immoral? Third, what secrets do you think they are keeping that are so bad?

Some Masons consider their oaths to be innocent nonsense, but in such cases, their oaths are blasphemous.<<

I have never met one who thinks of their oaths as silly or nonesense?

Also, any oaths are immoral when they require the one swearing to forego informing officials of Church or State about illegal or immoral happenings in a group.<<

First, in my study, there are certain laws that are excepted… such as murder and treason. Second, they are only bound not to tell, if another mason tells he wants it held in confidence and the second mason agrees to do so, otherwise it’s free game. Third, dont priests keep things that may be illegal secret in the confessional, are they then wrong too?

I fail to see that you have demonstrated any evil deeds of the group. Many company board meetings are “secret” and one must often sign a confidentiality agreement, with certain penalties attatched Are those bad too?

Brandon

It is not my judgement…it is the Churchs. Period! Oaths are sacred and NEVER to be sworn in a blashpemous manner. I am not stating my opion but the churchs. So, I would say…ask the Church authorities for the reasons. I follow the Church, not fad’s nor space ships nor strange ideas from others. The teachings of the church are solid and have stated the same principle of what is good and what is evil for over 2000 years. End of story for me.

 

[SDA2RC]

Marie:

It is not my judgement…it is the Churchs. Period! Oaths are sacred and NEVER to be sworn in a blashpemous manner. I am not stating my opion but the churchs. So, I would say…ask the Church authorities for the reasons. I follow the Church, not fad’s nor space ships nor strange ideas from others. The teachings of the church are solid and have stated the same principle of what is good and what is evil for over 2000 years. End of story for me.

Marie,
Apologize if I offended you. I am not arguing against the position of the Church. I was questioning your justifications of the doctrines. I certainly have no problem talking to my priest or the bishops office if I have questions. However, I would suggest that if you are going to call something that someone does immoral, that you have a reason other than, cause someone else said so.

My reason for that is because it is almost the exact same language and reasoning that is used by the protestants and Anti-Catholic’s in their attack on the RCC. Just replace the word “Church” in your statement with “Bible”. I am disappointed to see the same condemnation, language of attack, and same reasoning against another group here.

We are on the same side

Peace
Brandon

 

[Brendan]

friendofgod:

wow forbidden, think again since Vatican II…the Knights of Columbus allow Masons to join…

OK f.o.g.

Can you back that up? Links or doco?

I’m a Knight and I’d be really interested in your answer

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Fog has been banned, so no answer will be forthcoming.

Scott

 

[Marie]

SDA2RC:

Marie,
Apologize if I offended you. I am not arguing against the position of the Church. I was questioning your justifications of the doctrines. I certainly have no problem talking to my priest or the bishops office if I have questions. However, I would suggest that if you are going to call something that someone does immoral, that you have a reason other than, cause someone else said so.

My reason for that is because it is almost the exact same language and reasoning that is used by the protestants and Anti-Catholic’s in their attack on the RCC. Just replace the word “Church” in your statement with “Bible”. I am disappointed to see the same condemnation, language of attack, and same reasoning against another group here.

We are on the same side

Peace
Brandon

Sorry if I am giggling right now. I used direct quotes from the Diocese of Lincoln…not my words so emmmm I guess your argueing with the Bishop on this one. I thought you understood that by the quotes

 

[Marie]

Marie:

I gave that one earlier…maybe another thread though so look it up. Same website I think, and so you will find it there.That part is probably under the Bishops own site though. He is the one that told them they would be excommunicated if they did not comply.

ok! I forgot to put this one in quotes I see. This one is also the words of the Lincoln Diocese…not my words. Check out their website.

dioceseoflincoln.org
Lincoln Diocese Website:

Free Mason, are considered to be a false pseudo-religion, for many biblical reasons. One is the Oath they must swear to.
Before Free Masons may go from one degree to another in their lodge, they have to swear an oath each time, consenting to their own mutilation and death if they reveal any masonic secrets, such oaths are immoral. Some Masons consider their oaths to be innocent nonsense, but in such cases, their oaths are blasphemous. Also, any oaths are immoral when they require the one swearing to forego informing officials of Church or State about illegal or immoral happenings in a group.

 

[Marie]

Scott Waddell:

Fog has been banned, so no answer will be forthcoming.

Scott

Well, at least not for two months I guess. Fog and his second user name are both persona non grata for 2 months.

 

[ralphinal]

SDA2RC:

Looking back at the posts, they have included such colorful labels as:
“bad”
“Evil”
“secret”
“Anti-Christian”
etc…etc…

Yet no one has yet given one specific thing that they do that are any of these.

Not to beat a dead horse, but look at the history of Mexico in the last century. The anti-Catholic government, including assassination teams sent after religious and priests, was masonic in origion and philosophy. Now, European Masonry is different than our form, but this is one example of anti-Catholic.

 

[SDA2RC]

Marie:

Sorry if I am giggling right now. I used direct quotes from the Diocese of Lincoln…not my words so emmmm I guess your argueing with the Bishop on this one. I thought you understood that by the quotes

LOL… I didn’t… Geesh… now I guess I am going to have to call him on it too

Brandon

 

[SDA2RC]

ralphinal:

Not to beat a dead horse, but look at the history of Mexico in the last century. The anti-Catholic government, including assassination teams sent after religious and priests, was masonic in origion and philosophy. Now, European Masonry is different than our form, but this is one example of anti-Catholic.

I would love to see your sources proving that the Mexican assasination teams?? were of masnic orgin, or that the government was. Do you realize that the MANY of the early Americans who created our government were English and or American masons?

Paul Revere
Benjamin Franklin
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Davy Crockett
Sam Houston
John Hancock

15 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons

28 of the 40 signers of the Constitution of The United States were Freemasons

If this is your idea of a Masonic influenced government, I would say that it is one of the best in the world!!

Again, I am not saying that the Church is wrong in its prohibition about members joining the Masonic Organization, but I have yet to see any proof offered by the church or history that shows that mason are bad, and until something like that is substantiated, I would prefer to stand up for them and their reputation.

I have personally known several masons who are upstanding and devoted Christians and sincere men! These are not “low ranking” masons, whatever that is. Some are 32 and 33 degree SR masons who serve on state and national level boards and councils.

Brandon

 

[ralphinal]

I’ll find that info for you, I do have it somewhere, three moves ago…The government was Masonic, and the killing of Catholics was government sanctioned. Anyway, yes, most of our founding fathers were Masonic, just like Jefferson was a deist and Franlin attended the black mass on a regular basis. The fact that masonry teaches that the devine archetect and al that, not to mention that intellect alone can create a perfect world where religion has failed creates problems between it and Christianity. My grandfather (baptist) was a high ranking member of the Masonic lodge (shriner, in fact), and he simply chose ot beleive what he wanted from their beliefs.

 

[ralphinal]

If you do a search on EWTN.com, look for “Free mason,” two of the articals really aswer the origional question, as well as some of the others

 

[Marie]

SDA2RC:

LOL… I didn’t… Geesh… now I guess I am going to have to call him on it too

Brandon

ROFLOL! Double Dare you on that one. giggle! He is pretty straight forward and cuts to the chase. He may have you doing penance on the steps of the Cathedral for a couple of years wearing sack cloth and ashes.

 

[SDA2RC]

ralphinal:

I’ll find that info for you, I do have it somewhere, three moves ago…The government was Masonic, and the killing of Catholics was government sanctioned. Anyway, yes, most of our founding fathers were Masonic, just like Jefferson was a deist and Franlin attended the black mass on a regular basis. The fact that masonry teaches that the devine archetect and al that, not to mention that intellect alone can create a perfect world where religion has failed creates problems between it and Christianity. My grandfather (baptist) was a high ranking member of the Masonic lodge (shriner, in fact), and he simply chose ot beleive what he wanted from their beliefs.

Interesting, I never knew that about Franklin… I have also read that there is a secret masonic base underneath the Denver Airport. I highly doubt that though. I would really like to see the info from credible sources on the Mexican Government.

I am not sure what you object to about the Masons calling God the Great Architect of the Universe, don’t you believe God was the architect of the universe? Finally, since masonry does not present a plan of salvation, sacraments, or even any universal/uniform teachings, I am afraid you would be hard pressed to show that “Freemasonry” teaches that intellect can create a perfect world where religion has failed.

Freemasonry in each state is kinda like the biships of each dioceses… except, there is no world councils, nor any pope or leader who ie a head among equals. All states Grand Lodges are free to do as they see fit. There is no authority higher in a state tha the current grand master of the state. Therefore, different lodges do/teach different things.

you realize that some protestants teach that the Masonic lodges are in cahoots with the vatican and run by jesuits… and also that it was the Vatican that started masonry in the first place… or that they are the decsendents of knights Templar.

Brandon

Brandon

 

[SDA2RC]

Marie:

ROFLOL! Double Dare you on that one. giggle! He is pretty straight forward and cuts to the chase. He may have you doing penance on the steps of the Cathedral for a couple of years wearing sack cloth and ashes.

Do you think my penance would double each time I questioned him about it as he left the Cathedral? LOL ROTFL…

Actually. I have heard very good things about him, and that he is very orthodox and conservative, I like that! I wish more Bishops were. I just wish that when people, (bishops or not) came out with accusations against a group, they would support it with some type of evidence. I think it takes away our credibility if we dont have any And he may, I would just like to hear it!!

Peace!
Brandon

 

[Ichthus]

DominvsVobiscvm:

Sorry, BobCatholic, but “implicit” isn’t good enough.

A public member of Masonry could, theoretically, be excommunicated; but by the New Code of Canon Law, he is not automatically so.

However, he is still in a state of mortal sin.

Do you go to the sites people link?

cin.org/vatcong/masonas.html

Because it is implicit the CDF issued a clariying statement

Or do you deny the traditional role of Freemasons?

They fall under the canon. Why? Because their organisation is such that it is included, otherwise the canon is meaningless. Of course I am assuming you have a copy of canoon law since you know so much?

But you are right in that he is not excommunicated

Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty- one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.

But if he takes office he is to be pout under interdict, but this is not automatic

 

[SDA2RC]

I thought you all may find this interesting.

This is from the “June Y2K+4” Newsletter of Jan Marcussen, a gentleman who says he is an ordained pastor of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church.

“Exhibit #91 in the new series. Will Rome control the nation no matter which way people turn? The article entitled “Ending America” says, “In 1965, John Kerry, was ‘tapped’ for big things. Kerry was one of only 15 elite young men, all senors at Yale University, initiated into the satanic secret order of Skull & Bones. Graduating from Yale in 1966, young Kerry was promptly recruited by the CIA to be one of their chosen. The CIA has long been known as a harbor for Bonesmen. Kerry’s career and life path were selected for him by his Illuninati superiors. The Illuminati’s personnel directors carefully groomed young Kerry from the start. First, his last name was changed from Kohn, to Kerry. His full name, John Forbes Kerry, was chosen for him so his initials would be JFK.” The article says that Kerry was also instructed to join the Roman Catholic church in Massachusetts - where the homosexuals and Vatican men are now having a nice time. It reveals that 1) he joined the communist party in Washington D.C. 2) He has consistently voted for homosexual marriage. When the Jesuit Illuminatti merged with the Masons in the 1800s, the Jesuits took over the Masons. The article reveals that Kerry’s major role as a Senator has been to very carefully serve the interests of the Illuminati by promoting the New World Order objectives - world government - secretly ruled by the Vatican in Rome. High Masons, including those in the order of Skull & Bones are worshipers of Lucifer, as are the Jesuits. Trained at the Jesuit Georgetown University in Washington D.C., - as was Bill Clinton, this likeable man is in a favorable position in the mind of the Holy See to help prepare for the battle of Armaggedon - which the 33 rd. degree Mason, Albert Pike, referred to long ago - when he said that they were going to bring 3 world wars. Asked who I was going to vote for, I said that 1) those running are both brothers in the same brotherhood, 2) Rome rules both sides, and 3) that I’m going to vote only for the lovely Jesus in heaven. It’s such a sweet relief to know that dear Jesus is above all, and has “all power in heaven and in earth.” And of our kind Father, it says, “God always has been. [Do you comprehend that?] Above the distractions of the earth He sits enthroned; all things are open to His divine survey; and from His great and calm eternity He orders that which His providence sees best.” FLB 42. Praise God!”
That sad part is that I used to read this stuff and not be laughing… I am sorry.

Brandon

 

[Marie]

SDA2RC:

Do you think my penance would double each time I questioned him about it as he left the Cathedral? LOL ROTFL…

Could be. I can see it now. You are 100 years old and still on the outside in your sack cloth and asking questions anew which get’s him riled up…lol!

Brandon:

Actually. I have heard very good things about him, and that he is very orthodox and conservative, I like that! I wish more Bishops were. I just wish that when people, (bishops or not) came out with accusations against a group, they would support it with some type of evidence. I think it takes away our credibility if we dont have any And he may, I would just like to hear it!!

Peace!
Brandon

Actually those were short pieces of the whole reasons he gives. And the last one which is pretty strong comes from higher up the chain of command as I recall. It’s part of and old document and refutation of Free Mason’s which he refers to. He does state and teach the whole picture which I have read before but I can’t find it now. Could be because the letter or teaching is older than 1996 and no longer archived. He is a keeper. Wish we had more like him.

 

[phatcatholic]

Freemasonry
–Masonry
–Declaration on Masonic Associations
–FAQ’s on Freemasonry
–Rituals of Freemasonry
–Prayer for the Conversion of Freemasons
–Dall’alto Dell’apostolico Seggio (On Freemasonry In Italy)
–The Masonic Religion
–Clarification Concerning Status of Catholics Becoming Freemasons
–Freemasonry And Christianity: Are They Compatible?
–Letter of April 19, 1985 to U.S. Bishops Concerning Masonry
–Custodi Di Quella Fede (On Freemasonry)
–Humanum Genus (On Freemasonry)
–Inimica Vis (On Freemasonry)
–Catholics and the Freemason ‘Religion’
–The Pastoral Problem of Masonic Membership
–Catholicism vs. Freemasonry: Irreconcilable Forever
–Can Catholics Be Freemasons?
–The Attack on the Church by Freemasonry
–What Are the Masons?
–Is Opus Dei a Branch of the Masonic Lodges?
–The Freemasons: A Historical Perspective
–Freemasonry and the Anti-Christian Movement
–The Catholic Church and Freemasonry

 

[Marie]

Freemasonry

WOW! You hit the Mother Load there phatcatholic. These should keep us up all night.

Good resources from the couple I clicked open. I even found the quote the Bishop Of Lincoln used from the documents which startled Brandon so much. Which means Brandan, your going to have to argue with a whole boatload of Bishops and higherups. WHOAAA! Sack cloth and ashes for life, should you choose to accept the assignment.

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5285