Catholic priest converts to Islam

  • Thread starter Thread starter bobzills
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Booklover said:
Exactly! Imagine the chaos that would ensue with everybody stopping everything to wash and pray. In England recently, a Muslim bus driver stopped the bus and asked the passengers to step out because he had to pray! Is this reasonable behaviour? and Muslims want the whole world to submit to this! No thanks!
Click to expand...
First of all, if you object to prayer, then don’t pray. Nobody is forced to do it.

Moreover, there is a timeframe wherein the Muslim is allowed to make the prayer. Bus drivers can stop the bus to go to the bathroom… and is God less important? I for one, at my job, am allowed a 15min break twice in an 8-hr day–every employee is. And I work for the gov’t, btw.

But that means I have 15 minutes in the afternoon (at 3pm) to break from work. Enough time to pray. I also get a lunch break, which gives me time to pray. If the prayer time comes in after lunch, then I can pray the noon prayer at 3 and the afternoon prayer when work is over. It doesn’t cause any chaos at all.

And like I said, people take breaks to go to the bathroom, to call their spouses, and just to chat with each other. And is God less important than that!?
Rigid prayer times are suitable and harmonious in a monastic environment but cannot and should not be imposed on ordinary people doing secular jobs.
Click to expand...
“It’s too hard.” A common excuse. There is flexibility in the prayer times–at least an hour’s range, sometimes 4-5 hours.

I guess your job is more important to you than God? 🤷
 
Sister_Amy said:
And God is Great… imagine people who care more about God than about their economy. 👍
Click to expand...
You can give God praise in all acts of your life, doesn’t need to be something mechanical … Jesus was against that - all the rituals of Jews

God is spirit, so He accepts all the praise you give to him in any simple act of your life, that includes praying

Here in Portugal, where smoking is not allowed in closed places, it is only allowed in open spaces, literally : the open space of nature

can you imagine ?

5 prays a day, perhaps 15 minutes long, 1 cigarette per hour

But the truth is that praying to God must be a SPIRIT to SPIRIT relationship, YOU to GOD

not a mechanical or ritualistic one relationship, He doesn’t like that

And yes, believe me or not, in this modern world…and global economy…each person must do his job and work…and that is something that praises God

They will miss their petro-dollars one day, perhaps they will change prayings to an half that day…because they must feed their people

read the gospels, read about communism
 
Sister_Amy said:
First of all, if you object to prayer, then don’t pray. Nobody is forced to do it.
Click to expand...
Where have I stated that? You know nothing about me or my prayer life.
Moreover, there is a timeframe wherein the Muslim is allowed to make the prayer. Bus drivers can stop the bus to go to the bathroom… and is God less important? I for one, at my job, am allowed a 15min break twice in an 8-hr day–every employee is. And I work for the gov’t, btw.

But that means I have 15 minutes in the afternoon (at 3pm) to break from work. Enough time to pray. I also get a lunch break, which gives me time to pray. If the prayer time comes in after lunch, then I can pray the noon prayer at 3 and the afternoon prayer when work is over. It doesn’t cause any chaos at all.

And like I said, people take breaks to go to the bathroom, to call their spouses, and just to chat with each other. And is God less important than that!?

“It’s too hard.” A common excuse. There is flexibility in the prayer times–at least an hour’s range, sometimes 4-5 hours.
Click to expand...
Mt.6, 5-6
5 "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
I guess your job is more important to you than God? 🤷
Click to expand...
We can pray anytime without any fuss, and there’s a time and a place for everything.

Vickie
 
Delta2 said:
But the truth is that praying to God must be a SPIRIT to SPIRIT relationship, YOU to GOD

not a mechanical or ritualistic one relationship, He doesn’t like that
Click to expand...
The word used for this kind of prayer is talking about a live, fiery connection between the person and God. Anything else–just a ritual or mechanical act devoid of spirituality–is just useless, and deficient.
And yes, believe me or not, in this modern world…and global economy…each person must do his job and work…and that is something that praises God
Click to expand...
Are you telling me that God does not like prayer? People work to earn money to enjoy this life. Muslims pray to enjoy the next life.
They will miss their petro-dollars one day, perhaps they will change prayings to an half that day…because they must feed their people
Click to expand...
They have been praying 5 times a day, every day, for 1400 years. And it has nothing to do with petrodollars. They were praying long before oil was discovered. And the people still pray here in the US, like I’m sure they pray in Portugal as well. They pray in Bangladesh and India and Afghanistan and Indonesia. The poor people and the rich people. They don’t pray because they are too lazy to work. But they prayer is working for the Hereafter.
read the gospels, read about communism
Click to expand...
Read the Qur’an.
 
Booklover said:
Where have I stated that? You know nothing about me or my prayer life.
Click to expand...
You’re right, I know nothing about you or your prayer life, nor was I trying to insinuate anything about it. Forgive me if it seemed that way.

What you said was: [qutoe]and Muslims want the whole world to submit to this! No thanks!

Rigid prayer times are suitable and harmonious in a monastic environment but cannot and should not be imposed on ordinary people doing secular jobs. TO me, that meant you thought Islam implied force in prayer, and that prayer is impractical for your job. Which is an objection to prayer. So I responded that if you or anyone else doesn’t want to pray, you don’t have to–it’s your own business.
We can pray anytime without any fuss, and there’s a time and a place for everything.
Click to expand...
Muslims can pray anytime as well, without any fuss.
 
Delta2 said:
You can give God praise in all acts of your life, doesn’t need to be something mechanical … Jesus was against that - all the rituals of Jews…
But the truth is that praying to God must be a SPIRIT to SPIRIT relationship, YOU to GOD

not a mechanical or ritualistic one relationship, He doesn’t like that
Click to expand...
My understanding of this a a little different from what you have presented here. I was taught that man has a falled nature and from birth is stained with orignal sin. This means that man is not as strong as we might like to be and we must be on guard against many temptations as they appear. However, suppose we practice a daily ritual, such as for example, praying one rosary every the morning and one rosary every evening, although this may seem to be a mechanical action, nevertheless, this type of ritual may strengthen our spritual life and therefore it will be pleasing to God, unlike what you have declared here.
These types of small rituals, as they become habitual, although at first glance they may appear to be mechanical, as you look into the situation with a little more depth and understanding of what is trying to be accomplished, you may begin to appreciate the support that these daily rituals and exercises give to our spiritual life.
 
Sister_Amy said:
You’re right, I know nothing about you or your prayer life, nor was I trying to insinuate anything about it. Forgive me if it seemed that way.

What you said was: [qutoe]and Muslims want the whole world to submit to this! No thanks!

Rigid prayer times are suitable and harmonious in a monastic environment but cannot and should not be imposed on ordinary people doing secular jobs.
Click to expand...
TO me, that meant you thought Islam implied force in prayer, and that prayer is impractical for your job. Which is an objection to prayer. So I responded that if you or anyone else doesn’t want to pray, you don’t have to–it’s your own business.

Muslims can pray anytime as well, without any fuss.

Again you’re misconstruing what I said, trying to make to make yourself “holier than thou”, so I won’t waste any more time trying to explain anything.

Vickie
 
It’s possible I didn’t understand what you said. I’m not trying to pick a fight here.
 
Sister_Amy said:
The word used for this kind of prayer is talking about a live, fiery connection between the person and God. Anything else–just a ritual or mechanical act devoid of spirituality–is just useless, and deficient.
Click to expand...
Perfect

=====
Are you telling me that God does not like prayer? People work to earn money to enjoy this life. Muslims pray to enjoy the next life.​

Didn’t said that, one of the big problems of the west is that most people are agnostic or atheist or have some bizarre catholic non-practice behavior, i.e., they are catholics but doesn’t practice or exercise anything

Prayer, what is to pray for you ? there is prayers and prayers

And here, there is no true catholic who can deny heaven to a no-catholic

Are you a pious person ? love you God ? then you are at the same level as the peaceful Ghandy

God is just the most highest and holiest Being there is, more, and more, and more, and more, that you can ever imagine

A pure loving spirit of light

And in here, I’m sure that I can speak for all Catholics, no…never God will deny you, even if you are a muslim or a buddhist, or whatever

========
They have been praying 5 times a day, every day, for 1400 years. And it has nothing to do with petrodollars.​

Yes, forgive me, that’s is something that the west must learn

The west is in fact under a apostasy nebula

That’s a fact

===========
They were praying long before oil was discovered. And the people still pray here in the US, like I’m sure they pray in Portugal as well.​

Sister Amy, I agree with you, any good Catholic must pray

I’m Portuguese, Fatima is a 1 hour from Lisbon where I’m living

Hour lady of Fatima did said : pray…pray it much

Yes, you are correct

But that must be a personal choice, God doesn’t want to have a forced-love thru him, just voluntary and complete one

I pray sometimes, I once had something like a smell of hell, as I was possessed, very bad thoughts…and guess

I didn’t pray 1, but 2…4 times at that time

I prayed the Holy Rosary, the most powerful pray there is…as
our lady of Fatima said

========
They pray in Bangladesh and India and Afghanistan and Indonesia. The poor people and the rich people. They don’t pray because they are too lazy to work. But they prayer is working for the Hereafter.​

I’m not against praying to God

What I’m against to is about someone forcing me to pray

If God doesn’t force me to love Him, why does a State like Saudi Arabia force me to love Him and pray to Him ?

========
Read the Qur’an​

The Qur’an contradicts itself from the early Mecca suras to the Medina suras. This is different from the progressive revelation we find in the Bible, where God reveals more and more information as history unfolds, and He reveals what had earlier been mysteries.

Earlier suras are more about peace. Later suras are more about violence. In addition, where Muslims are in the minority (such as North American and Europe), they tend to follow the earlier Mecca suras.

Where they are in the majority (such as the middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.), they tend to follow the later Medina suras.

Sister Amy, God is just, just different

He (God) doesn’t deny you, even if you are a muslim, believe me
 
This is an interesting story, of a Catholic priest who converted to Islam. I have read of former Catholic priests who have converted to Judaism also.

Frankly, with all due respect to any Muslims here, I do not understand why this former priest would become Muslim. I am friendly with some devout Muslims (including my belly dance teacher), and although I respect their faith, I never found anything appealing in it. Of course, that doesn’t mean others do not.

For a number of years in my life, when I was younger, I was a secular Jew. I investigated many religions as a result of something that happened in my childhood, and found something admirable in almost all religions.

I was especially interested in traditional Catholicism, since that had been the religion of my mother before she became a Jew. I also have a great-aunt who was a cloistered Carmelite nun, as well as half a family that is Catholic, so naturally my first interest was in that faith.

But about 25 years ago I met a rabbi who opened up to me the sheer beauty of traditional mystical Judaism, and that is where I have been ever since.

I see good in all religions, but I remain in my own because I find the most good and truth, here.
 
HashemEchad said:
But about 25 years ago I met a rabbi who opened up to me the sheer beauty of traditional mystical Judaism, and that is where I have been ever since.

I see good in all religions, but I remain in my own because I find the most good and truth, here.
Click to expand...
I think that’s fantastic:)
 
Booklover said:
Sister Amy;3591317:
Moreover, there is a timeframe wherein the Muslim is allowed to make the prayer. Bus drivers can stop the bus to go to the bathroom… and is God less important? I for one, at my job, am allowed a 15min break twice in an 8-hr day–every employee is. And I work for the gov’t, btw.

But that means I have 15 minutes in the afternoon (at 3pm) to break from work. Enough time to pray. I also get a lunch break, which gives me time to pray. If the prayer time comes in after lunch, then I can pray the noon prayer at 3 and the afternoon prayer when work is over. It doesn’t cause any chaos at all.

And like I said, people take breaks to go to the bathroom, to call their spouses, and just to chat with each other. And is God less important than that!?

“It’s too hard.” A common excuse. There is flexibility in the prayer times–at least an hour’s range, sometimes 4-5 hours.
Click to expand...
Mt.6, 5-6
5 "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.

Vickie
Click to expand...
👍 I totally agree.
 
HashemEchad said:
This is an interesting story, of a Catholic priest who converted to Islam. I have read of former Catholic priests who have converted to Judaism also.

Frankly, with all due respect to any Muslims here, I do not understand why this former priest would become Muslim. I am friendly with some devout Muslims (including my belly dance teacher), and although I respect their faith, I never found anything appealing in it. Of course, that doesn’t mean others do not.

For a number of years in my life, when I was younger, I was a secular Jew. I investigated many religions as a result of something that happened in my childhood, and found something admirable in almost all religions.

I was especially interested in traditional Catholicism, since that had been the religion of my mother before she became a Jew. I also have a great-aunt who was a cloistered Carmelite nun, as well as half a family that is Catholic, so naturally my first interest was in that faith.

But about 25 years ago I met a rabbi who opened up to me the sheer beauty of traditional mystical Judaism, and that is where I have been ever since.

I see good in all religions, but I remain in my own because I find the most good and truth, here.
Click to expand...
Great post, Hashem! 👍

Vickie
 
As far as the issue of compulsory prayer goes, all three monotheistic religions have some level of compulsion within them. How much is required varies, and the penalty for not abiding by the rules does as well, but it is somewhat bogus to bash Islam for the prayer being required without considering that Christianity has requirments as well (not just Catholicism, either). Now, a valid question would be if someone did not pray at the call to prayer for no valid reason in states such as KSA, would there be any reprocussions? I assume that as with the fast for Ramadan, there are times and people that are exempted.

Now, back to the particular question about a priest converting. the issue has been raised that there is no proof for his identity. FOr one minute, let us take the position that this is all created by people to cast doubt upon Christianity. Is this not banned by Islam? If it is false, would the “Muslim World” take steps to see that it does not happen again?

Lamar has pointed out a couple of cases where one faith killed or attacked people of a different faith. I suggest that, in the interest of fairness, we look at the Mountain Meadows Massacre. True, agents of the CoJCoLDS attacked unarmed non-Mormons after they had been promised safe passage. But, please look at the whole story. After the attack, there was REMORSE shown by the LDS leadership involved. Today, they do not deny the wrong that was done. Can the same be said for other groups?

Also, the whole “This is what you did 400 years ago” stuff is a little over-played. Can we confine the conversations to things that the various groups do today?
 
ralphinal said:
As far as the issue of compulsory prayer goes, all three monotheistic religions have some level of compulsion within them. How much is required varies, and the penalty for not abiding by the rules does as well, but it is somewhat bogus to bash Islam for the prayer being required without considering that Christianity has requirments as well (not just Catholicism, either). Now, a valid question would be if someone did not pray at the call to prayer for no valid reason in states such as KSA, would there be any reprocussions? I assume that as with the fast for Ramadan, there are times and people that are exempted.

Now, back to the particular question about a priest converting. the issue has been raised that there is no proof for his identity. FOr one minute, let us take the position that this is all created by people to cast doubt upon Christianity. Is this not banned by Islam? If it is false, would the “Muslim World” take steps to see that it does not happen again?

Lamar has pointed out a couple of cases where one faith killed or attacked people of a different faith. I suggest that, in the interest of fairness, we look at the Mountain Meadows Massacre. True, agents of the CoJCoLDS attacked unarmed non-Mormons after they had been promised safe passage. But, please look at the whole story. After the attack, there was REMORSE shown by the LDS leadership involved. Today, they do not deny the wrong that was done. Can the same be said for other groups?

Also, the whole “This is what you did 400 years ago” stuff is a little over-played. Can we confine the conversations to things that the various groups do today?
Click to expand...
Like the IRA bombing train fulls of British civilians?
 
HashemEchad said:
Thanks! BTW your sig picture totally rocks! 👍
Click to expand...
Thanks, someone else commented on it yesterday too. I’m doing some research on it as to the artist and so forth to see if I can find a bigger one to post.

Vickie 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top