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Sister_Amy
Guest
Saudi culture is not the gold standard of Islam, sorry to inform you.
Of course he does. It’s an Arabic university…
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Muslims aren’t to be killed for missing prayers or services. It’s more or less a personal matter.
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
I have Muslim friends who keep the prayers but don’t go to Mosque.
I inform them that their lives are in immediate danger
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steve_b
Guest
Bob,
Am I misreading you?
For clarification, you say in your bio that you are Catholic. Yet you give the impression you don’t know that purposefully missing mass on Sunday is a grave (mortal ) sin?
And it couldn’t be clearer what scripture says about missing mass.
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IvanKaramozov
Guest
He’s makeing a point
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steve_b
Guest
I was probably misreading what he said earlier.
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Righteousone
Guest
Yea, especially when they realize they don’t want to be Muslim anymore, their lives are TRULY in danger.
I have Muslim friends who keep the prayers but don’t go to Mosque.
I inform them that their lives are in immediate danger
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
Really?
I know an evangelist, who is a former Muslim, who yells at all the Muslims that their going to hell, worshipping a false god, calls Muhammed a pervert/pedophile, etc.
They haven’t so much as threatened him, they do debate him, but nothing more
L
LaMar
Guest
As near as I can tell, this idea that Muslims will murder you for wandering away from the mosque stems from two places.
In Israel/Palestine there is a relatively significant body of Jews and Muslims who have converted back and forth, often for marriage purposes. There are a small number of crazy Jews and crazy Muslims, who preach fiery sermons from either side of the fence, talking about killing their “traitors”. It doesn’t seem that the regular Jewish and Islamic population takes these blowhards seriously, because converts are rarely hassled there in practice. I’ve tried to find a case in which someone has actually been harmed in Israel simply for converting to another religion, and can’t, but I’ll allow that it might happen.
In Africa there have been periodic wars where, unfortunately, people have formed up and started fighting over which group prayed to the same God the right way. In places like Sudan and Mali, there have been some isolated cases of both Christians and Muslims who converted either way being murdered.
Of course the idea is disgusting, and I condemn it whenever it happens, but it doesn’t seem to happen very often. Fanatic Muslims seem much more interested in killing other Muslims who don’t agree with them, than in killing Christians, Jews or Atheists, just judging on the numbers in the media.
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IvanKaramozov
Guest
It does, I have a friend who’s from the Middle East and lived there and she joked about that once, however I think that’s something the State does as Amy pointed out.
Malaysia actually had a case about this not to long ago, I think their supream court rules that the convert coulden’t be harmed.
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LaMar
Guest
May God bless the Malaysian judges then, for coming to a wise conclusion.
Some crazy people in my tradition murdered unbelievers in the name of the Mormon God too, so it certainly does happen from time to time. [google “Blood Atonement” or “Mountain Meadows” for more on this]
I’m pretty sure God doesn’t exist, but if he does, I’d hate to have to explain taking part in murdering someone in His name. I’d imagine He takes a pretty dim view of such shenanigans.
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Righteousone
Guest
And?
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wcknight
Guest
No doubt at some time or another some priest or clergy may have converted to Islam. But to say they did so because they were impressed that these folks prayed 5 times a day sounds completely bogus. Catholics as a rule probably pray much more often than that, especially the clergy.
Most Catholics are taught to pray every morning and evening and before and after every meal. That is already at least 6 times a day. We may not dig out a prayer rug, but prayer is an essential part of every Catholics life. Little kids are often taught to say little prayers throughout each day, so in some cases Catholics are praying hundreds of times a day.
Most Catholics are taught to pray every morning and evening and before and after every meal. That is already at least 6 times a day. We may not dig out a prayer rug, but prayer is an essential part of every Catholics life. Little kids are often taught to say little prayers throughout each day, so in some cases Catholics are praying hundreds of times a day.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Let me briefly describe prayer in Islam… for some of you might be under the impression that a Muslim doesn’t pray to God except these 5 times.
These five times, which are obligatory, involve a ritual prayer. The ritual prayer is also tied to the time of day, with respect to the sun–so before dawn is one time, right after noon is the second time, the third time is mid-afternoon, and the fourth time is after sunset. The last time is sometime after sunset when there is no light of day left (about an hour or so later.)
But in fact, there is a prayer for a Muslim when he wakes up. And there is a prayer when he goes to sleep. There is a prayer to make when entering the bathroom, and a prayer before washing up. There is a prayer after the first dawn prayer (ritual prayer), and there is a prayer before eating a meal (like breakfast.) There is a prayer before leaving the house, and a prayer when he starts the car to drive somewhere. There is a prayer before starting his work, before starting a meeting, and a prayer at ending a meeting. A prayer on encountering another Muslim, even. And then during the day there are two ritual prayers.
There are ritual prayers for extra occasions like before the dawn and noon prayers, after the call to prayer (before the mandatory prayer) and after the noon, sunset, and nighttime prayers. There is also a ritual prayer to be prayed late at night, either before bed or in the last third of the night.
Am I saying this to say Muslims have more prayers? No, I’m not.
Because a righteous, God-conscious person would naturally think of God throughout the day, and pray to God throughout the day, for such things as I have mentioned.
But when we say Muslims “pray five times a day” we aren’t talking about a short pray upon waking, or before sleeping. And we aren’t talking about a short prayer before a meal.
We are talking about an involved spiritual ritual which begins with purification (washing) and which must be done in a clean place, which has prescribed movements like standing, bowing, and prostrating, and which involves recitation from the Qur’an and various glorifications of God. It is a special ritual that a Muslim uses to fire up his connection with God. A “time-out,” during the day, for which he must leave his sleep, his work, his meals to make. The point is that he is forced to remember God, even when he is busy.
There are only 5 prayers which are mandatory, a total of 17 cycles of prayer. (2+4+4+3+4) But each of those 5 has additional, superogatory cycles.
So while it’s great for people to remember God throughout the day–Muslims or Catholics–it is not correct to have the impression that Muslims only pray those five times. But in fact, those five dailiy prayers are a ritual which doesn’t even exist in Christianity.
So Muslims have all those prayers you mentioned–before and after meals, upon waking and sleeping, etc–but they also have these other prayers, which are absolutely mandatory every single day. And that is the minimum.
These five times, which are obligatory, involve a ritual prayer. The ritual prayer is also tied to the time of day, with respect to the sun–so before dawn is one time, right after noon is the second time, the third time is mid-afternoon, and the fourth time is after sunset. The last time is sometime after sunset when there is no light of day left (about an hour or so later.)
But in fact, there is a prayer for a Muslim when he wakes up. And there is a prayer when he goes to sleep. There is a prayer to make when entering the bathroom, and a prayer before washing up. There is a prayer after the first dawn prayer (ritual prayer), and there is a prayer before eating a meal (like breakfast.) There is a prayer before leaving the house, and a prayer when he starts the car to drive somewhere. There is a prayer before starting his work, before starting a meeting, and a prayer at ending a meeting. A prayer on encountering another Muslim, even. And then during the day there are two ritual prayers.
There are ritual prayers for extra occasions like before the dawn and noon prayers, after the call to prayer (before the mandatory prayer) and after the noon, sunset, and nighttime prayers. There is also a ritual prayer to be prayed late at night, either before bed or in the last third of the night.
Am I saying this to say Muslims have more prayers? No, I’m not.
Because a righteous, God-conscious person would naturally think of God throughout the day, and pray to God throughout the day, for such things as I have mentioned.
But when we say Muslims “pray five times a day” we aren’t talking about a short pray upon waking, or before sleeping. And we aren’t talking about a short prayer before a meal.
We are talking about an involved spiritual ritual which begins with purification (washing) and which must be done in a clean place, which has prescribed movements like standing, bowing, and prostrating, and which involves recitation from the Qur’an and various glorifications of God. It is a special ritual that a Muslim uses to fire up his connection with God. A “time-out,” during the day, for which he must leave his sleep, his work, his meals to make. The point is that he is forced to remember God, even when he is busy.
There are only 5 prayers which are mandatory, a total of 17 cycles of prayer. (2+4+4+3+4) But each of those 5 has additional, superogatory cycles.
So while it’s great for people to remember God throughout the day–Muslims or Catholics–it is not correct to have the impression that Muslims only pray those five times. But in fact, those five dailiy prayers are a ritual which doesn’t even exist in Christianity.
So Muslims have all those prayers you mentioned–before and after meals, upon waking and sleeping, etc–but they also have these other prayers, which are absolutely mandatory every single day. And that is the minimum.
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Delta2
Guest
I can’t imagine all people in the west stop what they’re doing in order to pray : lets leave my job an go to pray, this about 5 times a day.
I don’t know how longer it takes to pray, 10 minutes ?
See the tremendous negative impact on economy. They do that because of petro-oil
The Arabs do not realize it that within the next century all that black gold buried beneath their soil would be exhausted. When that happens (believe me, that would happened one of these days),
how would they finance 5 prays a day ? how do they survive ?
Last but not least there are non-believers among muslims, atheists, not all of them pray to God they just do what the society wants them to do, otherwise they will lose their family, their jobs, etc.
In the quran there is a verse that says there must be no compulsion in religion, but reality and later verses in the quran shows the contrary
it is a obsessive-compulsive religion, ritualistic, mechanical
I think sooner or later Islam will die by himself, collapse, just like the communism
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Sam_777
Guest
You are right, even Islamic prophet Muhammed confirms that:
English: (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0271) “It is narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Umar ('Abdullah b. 'Umar) that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: Verily Islam started as something strange and it would again revert (to its old position) of being strange just as it started, and it would recede between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole.”
Arabic.
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Delta2
Guest
How does the muslims react to that sentence in that Hadith ?
You are right, even Islamic prophet Muhammed confirms that:
(Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0271)
Does they believe in that Hadith ?
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Sam_777
Guest
Sahih Muslim & Sahih Bukhari are two of the authorized books we have in Saudi Arabia, the word “Sahih” means true, the words “Muslim & Bukhari” are actual names of Muslim clerics.
Typcally as Muslims we should belive in both Quran & Hadith, we have so many Hadiths like that one, specially those dealing with sex, we really have a very disgusting sex Hadiths that someone can’t tell even to his children.
But we are as Jesus said:
“Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
(Matthew 15:14).
B
Booklover
Guest
Exactly! Imagine the chaos that would ensue with everybody stopping everything to wash and pray. In England recently, a Muslim bus driver stopped the bus and asked the passengers to step out because he had to pray! Is this reasonable behaviour? and Muslims want the whole world to submit to this! No thanks!
Rigid prayer times are suitable and harmonious in a monastic environment but cannot and should not be imposed on ordinary people doing secular jobs.
I agree!
Vickie
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Sister_Amy
Guest
And God is Great… imagine people who care more about God than about their economy.
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