Catholic priest Pennsylvania scandal

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jfz178 said:
We have to solve this problem, folks. Making excuses, quoting the Bible and other church documents, pointing fingers elsewhere and even apologizing will not do that.
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I agree with all your points, but what more can the Church do?
 
13pollitos said:
I truly wish I shared your optimism. I really do. I am lost at the moment. I am a teacher who is retiring as soon as possible so that I can homeschool my children. I do not trust the public school system and yes, I am a teacher in public schools. I regretted that I could not homeschool my nieces and nephews but at the time they were young it was not a possibility. Soon it will be for my family. I know our schools have problems and that is why I am not about to let them be in charge of my children. What this crisis has shown me is that in many ways, my girls would be safer at the school system I teach in than they are at the Catholic Churches we attend. It has been heartbreaking for me as a mother to witness this and I don’t know what I should do about it. My gut is telling me to keep them away from there too. Our priests have not even acknowledged anything.
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I agree with you. The response has been very disappointing.
 
ConstantLearner said:
I do not think so, no. I know of no priest who would break the seal of the confessional. He could refuse absolution to an offending priest, or exhort him to confess to his bishop, or resign, but he, himself, could not break the seal of the confessional. Once the seal is broken, people would no longer trust their confessor.

This is my understanding, and if I;m wrong, I’m sure someone will be along to correct me.
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Anyone else?
 
I understand not breaking the seal of confession, but when evidence is presented to you outside of that. When victims or their families come to you. When you are told of this behavior by another priest who has seen or suspects it, can you say “oh well, it was confessed to me so I have to put my fingers in my ears and say la la la la la”

If a priest witnesses a murder but the murderer then confesses to them, are they truly NOT allowed to report the murder? Isn’t information gathered outside the confessional outside of the protection of the confessional?
 
Calliope said:
If a priest witnesses a murder but the murderer then confesses to them, are they truly NOT allowed to report the murder? Isn’t information gathered outside the confessional outside of the protection of the confessional?
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No, they are not allowed. I think they are allowed to warn someone if they know that person’s life is in danger, but I’m not sure. That could apply to child abuse.

If a priest witnesses a murder, then he has information outside the confessional.
 
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If they see a murder and then the person confesses.

-if they knew who it was at the time of the murder and not due to the confession: yes, but they cannot say they confessed
-if only because of the confession they know who it was: no, but they can give detail to what they saw

Bit of a question: if they saw it and knew who did it, why didn’t they report it and actually had time for confession before reporting it?
 
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I’m an American but I’m not apologizing for the fact that the U.S. didn’t end slavery until 1865 and Jim Crow laws existed for 100 years afterward.

I’m not apologizing for the atomic bombs.

I didn’t start the fire. It was always burning since the world was turning.
 
That rule applies to psychologists and other therapists. For priests, they may give guidance to the in danger party- but they cannot say why or hint at why.
 
I am part of the “Protecting God’s Children” (VIRTUS) program, started by the Church. I believe strongly that a program of that kind must be a key part of the solution. Unfortunately, the Church started implementing it and then let it stall. I was happy to get involved back in 2011, and I would be happy to get re-involved, but there does not seem to be any interest.
 
Logically the Church was not always doing “everything it could” or we wouldn’t be where we are now. In fact, some of the actions of Church officials were to impede “doing everything that could be done” by covering up. We know this for a fact.

So, I am curious, what exactly did the Church start doing that makes you so confident? And what makes you so confident those things will work? Are you just a blind Church apologist, or do you have solid arguments to back up the claim?
 
For the Church to truly confront and deal with this problem, the Church must admit what is really going on. Namely, that this is not just a few bad apples, and that this is not a new or modern problem. Abuse has been a problem in the Church for hundreds of years, if not longer (read about Saint Damian in the 10th century). The Church has created a culture that allows a significant minority of priests to engage in abuse. Until the Church admits and deal with that core issue, this problem will continue, in my view.
 
that’s my point. From the letters written by priests and bishops it was clear they knew about the abuse from outside sources, not merely the confessional. They weren’t protecting the seal of the confessional, they were failing to report activity that they had outside information on.

That’s the thing, if you read the report there are copies of letters and communications concerning the abuse. It’s not mere heresay or he says she says, it was often admitted to, confirmed, and acknowledged. All this…oh, no fair, the priest isn’t here to defend himself is pointless. Read the actual letters. These aren’t mere cases of random finger pointing. These are cases that went on often for decades, with abuse being repeated and known about in placement after placement.

Even if they thought at first that perhaps it was cureable, after the umpteenth time it happened regardless of treatment and reassignment it should have been clear that it wasn’t a one time unfortunate event.

And sometimes good people were trying to address it and those in authority ignored or over ruled them. It’s all there, sometimes in the people’s own handwriting. I don’t know how anyone who has actually read the report can say “ah, no fair to accuse these guys without a fair trial. It’s all in the past” They were given chance after chance to reform, get help, straighten up, and kept on with the behavior, until some percentage of them were cushily retired.

I don’t understand how anyone can read it and not feel outrage.
 
I agree with all except:
jfz178 said:
  • Is the Church doing everything it can to bring offenders to full justice? I say no.
  • Is the Church doing everything it can to prevent future offenses? I say no.
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Even then, depending on how you define “The Church,” I might agree with you. We have a billion people and 400,000 priests over seen by 5000 bishops and one pope. I think it is rather common sense to know the pope cannot do or no everything. He can make policies and take actions that may or may not be short-circuted, that is, ignored, by anyone in the Church. So, if by the Church, you mean the bishops, we know that not all have done all they could. However so far:
  1. USCCB commissioned the independent John Jay Report
  2. The USCCB adopted the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People
  3. Pope Francis instituted the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors
So, are these enough? Of course not, as the only thing that will matter is to what extent those 5000 bishops and 400,000 priests comply with those documents. To the extent they do not, and ignore what “The Church” orders, the “The Church” will not be doing all that it can.
 
Agreed. As I said earlier (perhaps on another thread!) I am not talking about the spiritual or religious Church. I am talking about the institutional Church, the hierarchy. It is a management issue, not a spiritual one. But the management issue is doing spiritual damage.
 
I mean I’ve shared a few times in this thread how we’ve had accusations in our parish and I personally got to see how quickly it was handled.

I believe others have also talked about the preventative measures in place. Like, in our parish priests are NEVER alone with the children. Ever.

My arguments are my own experience in my diocese and listening to the experiences of others in other dioceses.

PS: Edited because I THINK I’ve said it in this thread… may have been in others on the same topic. Not operating with all pistons right now - pregnant and getting VERY little sleep since I spend the majority of my time sick.
 
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The thing that gets me is the number of victims who died or committed suicide over their experiences of being raped repeatedly by priests; the people who are supposed to be en persona Christi. This isn’t just sexual sin. This is murder.

As a Catholic, I feel like I can’t trust a word any clergy says. Yet, I trust that Jesus did establish the Catholic Church as his Church on earth and that that Devil knows this and has attacked it with everything he has. On a spiritual level not much has changed for me, but on a human emotional level, I feel like my Church has betrayed every Catholic especially the innumerable victims. I’m completely heartbroken over this.

I think the only way we can truly move forward is by holding the clergy accountable. One victim is too many.
 
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