My brother (who is a parole officer) his wife is a RN and sadly, she has seen many children with hep b, many native Americans but also white children, I don’t know where your doctor is from but believe me, just because he himself has not seen it, that is an awfully blind statement, in many areas of the U.S.A. it is seen.
Bravo. Excellent synopsis of the situation. State Edcuation Code has different standards for public versus private schools.
I trust it was not you doing the breast feeding?
I understand where you are coming from . . . but your statement here seems to me to be a bit contradictory. You don’t want your children to profit from the death of others . . . yes, you’re aware of the risk to unborn children.
Nope! Not me!!!Bravo. Excellent synopsis of the situation. State Edcuation Code has different standards for public versus private schools.
I vaccinate my baby boy, partly based on state law, and partly based on the pediatricians recommendation. If one who represents himself in court has a fool for a lawyer, then what more can we say for those who play at being their own doctor. All the magazine articles in the world do not amount to a medical degree. I trust it was not you doing the breast feeding?
I would be very cautious about turning this into a “let’s bash the medical profession” thread. I agree that the birth control lobby has been a powerful and irresponsible force in certain elements of the medical community . . . but that’s not really the point here.
Yes, there seems to be a hubris present in a significant portion of our medical professionals. There are millions of dedicated, Christian medical professionals on all levels who would take vehement exception to what you have just written.
With respect, I must again strongly disagree. While lack of sanitation and crowded living conditions certainly play a part, there are many more factors involved (and many places in the Third World where “crowded living conditions” are not an accurate description of reality. Do you realize how many lives could have been (and could be) saved each year if monies (mis)spent by the UN and other similar agencies on birth control were spent on very basic vitamin care and the most basic immunizations? And while I do agree that fundamental economic support is very important — forgive me, I don’t look at healthy food, clean water, and sanitary conditions as “luxuries”.
Do you really believe only the birth control lobby has been a powerful force? The allopathic medical community has a government enforced monopoly. They are a very powerful lobbying group on more issues than birth control. The issue is very on point with respect to this conversation. The same group of doctors migrate from private practice to the pharmeceutical companies to the FDA to the NIH to the CDC and back again.
Yes, let’s go back to no antibiotics, and for sure let’s throw antiseptic techniques out the window. You have taken my point and brought it to an extreme I never advocated. Actually, extremes are what I am concerned about. Antibiotics were a wonderful discovery. But we became extreme in our use of them and we have very scary antibiotic resistant bugs now. Don’t you think it possible that vaccinations fall into the same category? A life saving discovery that is used overzealously in an attempt to wipe out anything that could possibly kill us? Do you really think we can do battle against the microscopic world and win?
Millions? I have met very few Christian doctors. I have met very few doctors that treat me with any kind of respect when I dare to disagree or even ask for more than a simplistic explanation. I have met a handful of wonderful physicians and I am very appreciative of them. I wish most doctors were like them, but sadly I don’t believe that is the case.
Obviously there are more factors involved and I don’t have time to write a dissertation here. You are very patronizing. Are you a doctor? I know, I know… low blow, sorry. Back on topic… malaria would be an example of a disease that didn’t wipe out large populations of people until they were forced together in large urban areas. Previous to that time there was a significant level of natural immunity to malaria. Guns Germs and Steel provides an interesting take on the health problems in the third world.
I agree. But we aren’t talking about basic immunizations in this thread. What I object to is the insane number of vaccinations Americans are advised to receive. I think it is extreme and unhealthy. We may not be dying of infectious diseases at the same rate we used to, but I assure you, it is very unpleasant to live with chronic health conditions. This massive schedule of vaccinations has not been shown to be safe. This is a new experiment in public health. And frankly, I don’t care to use my family for experimentation.
First of all, I am not suggesting we give them economic support. I am suggesting more of the teach a man to fish, not give him fish line of thinking. The UN has done more than I care to document in making the world a worse place to live. Did you look at the Acton link? I was being sarcastic… I don’t consider healthy food, clean water and sanitary conditions as luxuries. And while we are on that subject, can you please give me proof that vaccines are responsible for our increased health rather than healthier food, cleaner water and better sanitation?
)… When doctors go on strike, people are healthier and less prone to that pesky problem of death!
Exactly.
Then the health community is doing just fine, since life is of great value. While easing of suffering is good, it can not be done at the expense of life.
Huh? We should artifically induce a chronic health condition in order to avoid a remote possibility of death? We do a number of things (driving comes to mind) which might cause our death. I don’t think the “culture of life” is about avoiding death at all costs. I think it is about living life to its fullest and valuing it in whatever form God grants it.
Just because I don’t agree with it doesn’t mean I think parents are bad for using vaccines.
As a parent who did NOT vaccinate her children because of the dangers I’ve mentioned on other posts, there is no comparison. Parents who opt out of vaccinating are made aware that if there is an outbreak of something their kid is not vaxed against would be required to keep their kids out of school during the outbreak.
I have never used a God-Doctor-Scientest, just regular doctors. They still know more about medicine than I do.
LOL.
They may know more about medicine, but I’m not sure they know more about health! And there is a difference. Over fifty percent of what is published in the major medical journals is ghosted by writers employed by pharmaceutical companies. Doctors are in the business of dispensing pharmaceuticals, including vaccines.
That is an excellent question. I believe when one makes a decision to go against the majority opinion of the medical community, that person had better do their research. Making such decisions is serious and requires an acknowledgment of personal responsibility. For example, it is irresponsible imo, to not vaccinate just because you heard it might be bad. Do the research before making such a serious decision. In my case, doing research involves considering the “majority opinion” and then reading medical journals and looking for sources who do not have a financial or political interest in the outcome of said research. Sometimes, there isn’t much questioning the majority opinion. (If I break my leg, I will probaby get a cast!) I will also consult professionals I trust, such as my midwife. Common sense, a gut check and prayer also inform my personal research.
Rob’s Wife said:
But there are many doctors who are allowed to prescribe REAL medicines who are not allopathic MD’s. They are called DO’s Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine. They receive the same training as do MD’s and most of the training as do chiropractors. You seem to be taking a very legitimate abuse and applying in an irresponsible manner.
Ma’am, by virtue of your response, I truly believe that you have no idea as to what you are talking about. Even if a disease-resistant strain of (insert disease here) were to be discovered, the vaccine would still protect against the vast majority – AND new discoveries are being made all the time.
Ma’am, with respect, I truly believe that you are living in unreality.
Three points here:
Do you know why there is an international problem with malaria? Have you any idea at all? Have you ever been to a malaria-infected country/region? Have you ever had a relative laid low by this disease?
Ma’am, with respect, you have demonstrated that you have no idea as to what you are talking about . . . and like many in your position, you seem to feel that the best defense is an offensive offense – regardless of whether the facts are on your side.
I appreciate your comments, being the uncle to a very fine young man who is terribly severely autistic.
Again, you are being patronizing. I know all about DOs and chiropractors. I also know the history of how DOs and chiropractors have had to wage battles against monopolistic MDs to win practice rights. (As an aside, did you know that many chiropractors are concerned about vaccinations?) Did you even read my link to the article on the medical monopoly? That article is a good explanation for where I am coming from.
Sir, you did not understand the point I was trying to make. I wasn’t comparing the mechanism of antibiotics and vaccinations. I was pointing out the possibility of unintended consequences with the over-use of vaccines as there have been with antibiotics.
Sir, belittling me is not a good debating tactic. You haven’t provided me with any of the proof I have asked for. Let’s debate based on the facts, not on accusations of living in “unreality”. The concept of reality is in fact debatable, anyway.
I have no idea what a “Christian” doctor should look like. I was simply challenging your assertion that there are “millions” of Christian doctors. I don’t even know if my family physician is one. What I do know is that my family physician is a very respectful and caring man. He takes time with me, speaks with me respectfully, explains his positions on certain issues, and continues to behave respectfully towards me even if I decline his advice. I do not need a doctor who agrees with me. I simply need one who won’t freak out if I don’t agree with him (or her)!
It does give me pause. Which is why I don’t claim to have all of the answers regarding vaccinations. You may have missed it when I said that I will probably selectively vaccinate my younger children.
I am also a well-read, well-educated, well-informed human being. I only have three children, though. I also have relationships with medical doctors and I even have a close relative in the pharmaceutical industry (gasp!) I don’t know anyone who has won a Nobel Prize, however. (Though, I would very much like to have known Friedrich Hayek.)
Yes, I most certainly have an idea: lack of access to and misinformation about DDT!
No. Does that mean I cannot know anything about it? Must a person experience something to know about it?
I have shared facts. You can choose not to agree with my conclusion based on the facts. Will you please share your facts, now? You did not present any new information to me about the subject at hand in your response. The only thing I learned is that you know doctors and have first hand experience with malaria. Now please tell me how that is proof of the safety of an aggresive vaccine schedule.