Catholic Schools and Non-Immunizing Families

[luvmykids]

Seatuck:

The Children of God for Life site that was earlier posted has this info. I know sometimes when a thread gets lost this can happen.

cogforlife.org/

It also states this in that article,"Parents who do not immunize their children against rubella would be responsible for the malformations and subsequent abortions of malformed fetuses that might result from a pregnant women being infected by the unvaccinated child, both the study and Msgr. Suaudeau said.

In this case, the parent would be in “much more proximate cooperation with evil” than if he had accepted a morally questionable vaccine to begin with, he said.

Children and unborn children must not pay the price for “the licit fight against pharmaceutical companies” that produce immoral vaccines, said the Italian version of the study."

 

[Petite]

Cupofkindness:

Can you imagine after a lifetime of anti-immunization that you find out that your 18 year old can’t get into their “top pick” college as a result? This is speculation, but from what I’ve seen, these records contain very important medical information that more and more institutions are demanding to have. .

I did a search to see if universities require immunizations for admittance. Here is (a little bit) of what I found:

**Northwestern College ** (nwciowa.edu/health/faq.aspx)

Q: What immunizations are required for admittance to Northwestern College?
A: Students must have had a tetanus shot within the last 10 years and two MMRs (measles, mumps, rubella immunization—which most will have had before going to elementary school). The hepatitis B vaccine series and the conjugate meningitis vaccine are strongly recommended.

**Fransican University ** in Steubenville, OH:

franciscan.edu/imagebase/oit/docid1510/Student%20Life%20Configuration%20Guide.pdf

Harvard University Health Services: 2005-2006 Immunization Requirements for Incoming Students Required by Harvard University, includes immunizations required by Massachusetts State Law
MENINGITIS (NEW),

2005-2006 Immunization Requirements for Incoming Students
Required by Harvard University, includes immunizations required by
Massachusetts State Law

MEASLES (Rubeola)
2 immunizations (live vaccine) on or after the first birthday, at least 30 days apart, in 1967 or later

GERMAN MEASLES (Rubella)
1 immunization on or after the first birthday, in 1967 or later

MUMPS
1 immunization on or after the first birthday, in 1967 or later

A positive serological test for immunity (blood test for specific disease antibodies) to measles, mumps or rubella is acceptable instead of immunizations. A history of the disease, even if confirmed by a physician, is not acceptable.

TETANUS and DIPTHTHERIA
1 booster (as a combined vaccine) within the last 10 years. If the combined vaccine was not given, Tetanus and Diphtheria must be documented separately. Although the Tetanus immunization must have been given within the past 10 years, there is no time limit on the last Diphtheria booster.

HEPATITIS B

huhs.harvard.edu/NewsFlash/2005ImmunizationIncoming.htm

And one more: the **University of Michigan ** in Ann Arbor, MI, has this to say:

Immunization Information

Recommendations The University of Michigan recommends (but does not require) the following immunizations.

* Meningitis (especially recommended for incoming freshmen living in residence halls) -- see Meningitis and vaccination.
* Measles, mumps and rubella (immunizations can be given together or separately)
* Tetanus-diptheria (primary series completed and a booster received within the last 10 years)
* Polio (primary series completed)
* Hepatitis B (a series of 3 vaccines)
* Chicken pox (varicella) if you haven't had the disease already

In addition, a tuberculosis (TB) test is recommended for students at risk. See Tuberculosis and Testing.

From the FAQ on this site:

**I’m not sure I’ve had all the required immunizations. What can I do? ** Contact your medical professional or your high school for immunization records. If you are unable to locate any records, list the immunizations you are certain you have had. For the immunizations you are unsure of, we strongly encourage you to visit a medical professional. Immunity against many of the diseases listed on the form can be determined through tests, and any needed vaccinations should be administered.

uhs.umich.edu/students/immunization.html

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I have found this an interesting thread to read. I had all of my children immunized. I was elated with the chicken pox vaccine which only my youngest received–my older three kids had chicken pox when they were pre-school–we had six weeks of chicken pox! The momentary pain of seeing one of my children get the immunization is an excellent trade off (IMHO) to watching a brave pre-schooler resist (to the best of her ability) scratching and being miserable! (She had a mournful: Chickies go away mantra to help her!) Life offers enough other opportunities to ‘practice’ being miserable!

 

[mom2boyz]

I understand that parents may choose not to immunize for reasons not related to a moral evil. But if the main objection is that vaccines are remotely connected to aborted fetal tissue, then I think the person is stating a moral objection. The issue I take with that as a Catholic we have a higher authority in the Vatican to help us make decisions about moral evils. If this was the moral evil that is being implied, I would think the Vatican would let the rest of us know so we would not participate in a moral evil. They don’t seem to have a problem telling us about the moral evils of embryonic stem cell research, birth control, etc.

It is aggravating that the non-immunized crowd benefits directly from those who choose to immunize. I wish they could appreciate the severity of those childhood illnesses as previous generations did. It might be beneficial in your research to find an elderly person who lived during that time and speak with them about how children died from many illness that we vaccinate against. Find out how many brothers, sisters or children they lost to polio, measles, mumps, or whooping cough. If you do that before you choose not to immunize and then still choose not to immunize then I will have more respect for your decision.

 

[apricot_yogurt]

The dilemma I have is that I am repulsed by the idea of giving my children the rubella vacinne, as I object to the methods used to obtain it. I am also repulsed by the idea of my children passing on rubella to a pregnant woman, or myself, or their unborn children. There are a number of what ifs.
They may never get rubella
They may contract rubella, and die
They may contract rubella and not die
They may contract rubella, and pass it on to a pregnant mother whose unborn child may or may not contract it.
They may contract rubella, and pass it on to someone who will die.
They may catch a mild form, and their antibodies will kick in before they get full- blown rubella, and develop their own immunity to it.
They may already be immune to rubella, as they were breastfed, and recieved my antibodies, as I had it as a child.
Bottom line is there are too many what ifs to balance against the definite knowledge of how this vacinne was obtained.The vacinne , as far as I’m aware does not provide life-time immunity-so who’s to say my previously vaccinated child won’t pass it on?
As parents we can only pray that we do what is best.

 

[jasonb82abn]

Jmj

Greetings folks! What a thread huh? It was quite a read… catching up. I thought I might add a comment here. I think most people that have posted are aware of this, but someone may not be…

If one were to disagree with this new rule on legal grounds - they would require a couple of things. They would need a standing – or “a sufficient ‘stake’ in a matter to justify seeking relief through the court system.” Also, the issue must be a “justiciable controversy.” I think you could easily make an argument for both in this case… IF we were talking about a public (state) school. We aren’t though. In truth, private schools have a great deal of freedom to discriminate and create their own particular (or peculiar) regulations.

We have no “freedom of speech” to fall back on in any private school system. Likewise, this is not an “equal protection” or a “due process” issue. Regardless of any rule that might seem discriminatory… such as rules regarding race, religion, national origin, alienage, gender, legitimacy, or non-vaccinated children… this is simply not a constitutional issue. In fact, the Catholic school system could probably discriminate on ANY of those examples – and be within their rights.

In any case, there really doesn’t seem to be a case here at all. The government allows a “religious exemption” for certain types of vaccinations… but in truth, they may very well not have to. The “Free Exercise Clause” in the First Amendment has been interpreted to allow the government to act as it chooses when “religious practices work against public policy and the public welfare…” Specifically… the government CAN require certain types of vaccinations – that they (the State of Illinois) allow for a “religious exemption” is an attempt to be accommodating. The Catholic School system, however, is under no obligation to uphold the interpretations of the First Amendment.

And it’s been mentioned, but I’ll reiterate anyway! Since the “religion” of the Catholic school system is “Catholic ,” - they are really only stating the obvious. No religious exemption excuse will be accepted, because the Catholic Church doesn’t have a “no vaccination” policy. And if a student (and their family - if the child is a minor, the parents or legal guardians would have “standing”) is of a religion that did not allow vaccinations – the school is still under no obligation to accept this as cause for exemption.

Your choices seem pretty simple though, assuming you are an ethically minded person (and therefore “above” forging medical documents! ) Either comply with the new regulations, or do not send your children to that school. The second option gives you a great deal more freedom than the first obviously.

On a personal note though Juli… I understand and sympathize with your feelings. And I will pray for you and your children.

May the Lord be with you!

Jason

 

[MariaG]

MooCowSteph:

Thank you very much! :tiphat: My daughter will likely get her shots, too, but we haven’t yet made that decision. I am on the fence about HepB, Prevnar, and Chicken Pox.

For those on the fence about Chicken Pox. Just to make sure you make a fully informed decision, my middle son got the Chicken Pox when he was 5. He then at age 10 got a case of the shingles. He was in tremendous pain for a good 2 weeks, and another 2 weeks of “it still hurts but its getting better”.

Thinking the risk of shingles, which is from the getting chicken pox, is only a risk that will affect adults is wrong. It is rare, but children can get shingles too. And it is very, very, painful. (I mean so painful that a kid who never cried over bumps and bruises and very hard knocks was brought to tears continually for almost 2 weeks.)

This is neither an endorsement of the Chicken pox vacine nor condemnation. It is just more information for those who are still undecided.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Shari]

spacecadet:

ignorant vaxing is also a wager. you’d have to be a fool to think no negative affects have ever happened due to vaxs. even though i did choose to vax i reasearched the best way to handle it

The negative effects are so great that a portion of dollars paid for every vaccine is put to a fund to pay the families of the children who are killed by vaccines or mentally/physically damaged. As a matter of fact the government has never really said that vaccinating is the safest way to protect, just the most economical. In Japan their sids rate dropped to zero when they stopped vaccinating babies and waited until they were 2yrs old. I had severe seizures when I was younger for quite a while due to the DPT shot. Just google dangers of vaccines and you will find court records of drug compainies owning up to these kinds of things as well as other info on all the negatives we aren’t told about vaccines. My childs life is more important than to gamble with side effects, especially when a good portion of these have mercury type substainses in them. I chance the illness.

 

[luvmykids]

Shari:

The negative effects are so great that a portion of dollars paid for every vaccine is put to a fund to pay the families of the children who are killed by vaccines or mentally/physically damaged. As a matter of fact the government has never really said that vaccinating is the safest way to protect, just the most economical. In Japan their sids rate dropped to zero when they stopped vaccinating babies and waited until they were 2yrs old. I had severe seizures when I was younger for quite a while due to the DPT shot. Just google dangers of vaccines and you will find court records of drug compainies owning up to these kinds of things as well as other info on all the negatives we aren’t told about vaccines. My childs life is more important than to gamble with side effects, especially when a good portion of these have mercury type substainses in them. I chance the illness.

I really am having a hard time understanding this whole mercury thing. A child probably ingests more mercury eating a serving of fish than could possibly be in the vaccinations. Or in an infants case, in the breast milk of his mother.

 

[Shari]

Just because I don’t agree with it doesn’t mean I think parents are bad for using vaccines.
I asked “Why do it?” and found there wasn’t a good answer or any answer at all when I researched each vaccine.
I’m not irresponsible, nor am I ignorant.
I’m a mother making the best decision for my children.

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As for the school situtation. A private school as the ability to make such a decision. If you feel that strongly about it, I would suggest finding a school that is more in line with your needs or home schooling.

I agree, why try to fix something thats not broken. When the child is older if they have not been exposed to anything then they can decide if they want to get the vaccines as they are older. Most of these things are not serious to children and the side effects are of higher percents than the dangers of the diseases themselves. My daughter had the chickenpox and made it through just fine.

 

[otm]

StampinJuli:

Hi All! I have recently received a letter from our parish’s school, where our ds attends Kindergarten, and our dd is supposed to attend Pre-K in the Fall - stating that our Diocese is implementing a new policy. The letter is from the school principal and it states,

“The Diocese has notified us, that all students attending school must be immunized unless a written note from your doctor indicating medical reasons for not immunizing your child exists. Being that we are a Catholic school, you are not allowed to claim a religious exemption. This is in accordance with Diocesan Policy #5150.” The letter goes on to give a name and address for submitting a “written, brief statement of objection”, and then staying she wanted us to “be aware that we will be abiding by the State requirements and Bishop’s Diocesan Policy regarding immunizations.”

Any thoughts on WHY they would go against State Law with a policy such as this? What kind of liability do they think they might have here? I just don’t get this at all! Illinois law allows for religious and medical exemption - and does not require membership in a church specifically against medical treatment, etc. It is my understanding that the Supreme Court has also made a statement on the broad coverage that “religious exemption” holds in terms of immunization. We are satisfied with the research we have done and the decision we have made to allow God’s design of our bodies remain as is.

The wording of this particular letter seems to say that because We are Catholic, I cannot claim religious exemption from immunization at a Catholic school. Why? As far as I know, the Church does not stand for or against immunization. What if I were not Catholic - could I then claim the religious exemption? Also as far as I know, private schools are not exempt from State law - and this letter calls on State Law requirements!

Our decision is based on our research about immunizations, with prayerfully and carefully discussed and weighed information. This was before we had ever heard about aborted fetus tissue being used in creating vaccines. (However - the Church has made a statement that parents may still decide for or against immunization, and if they decide for immunization - they are not cooperating with evil and acting immorally by accepting vaccinations made from aborted fetal tissue.) So how can we not claim exemption here - as part of our religious beliefs - when the Church has no teaching about this issue?

I just don’t get it! This is causing me much anxiety! I am not a homeschooler, nor do I want to be. And we do not want our children in the public school system.

Thanks for letting me vent - AND for sharing your thoughts and opinions. We are preparing our “brief written statement” of objection - but I want to write it as inteliigently as possible, and I plan to include reference information. If you have any thoughts of potential reasons why the diocese would make such a policy - I would appreciate your sharing, so I can prepare our objection accordingly.

Juli

The religious exemption referred to is generally (but not strictly) applied to Christian Scientists; there may be a couple of other churches which would reject dedical treatment, but they are relatively few. The exemption is made to accord with the teaching of that specific church which rejects medical intervention. The Catholic Church does not so hold, so the exemption based on the Catholic Church teaching that it is not morally right to have a child immunized does not exist because the Church does not teach that. No teaching, no exemption.

The issue of fetal tissue based immunization has not been officially passed on by the Church, to my knowledge, but theologians who are regarded as loyal to the Magisterium say that it is too remote to be a moral issue to the child or the parent. Where it can be avoided (by use of a differrent based syrum) it should, but one is not required morally to avoid immunization of the child.

 

[Shari]

luvmykids:

I really am having a hard time understanding this whole mercury thing. A child probably ingests more mercury eating a serving of fish than could possibly be in the vaccinations. Or in an infants case, in the breast milk of his mother.

We don’t eat fish because of this fact. And if you know anything of how these vaccines are made and all the chemicals that are put into them, it’s disgusting. Just my oppinion. I don’t judge anyone for getting vaccines. My first was vaccinated and my second had everything but his 5 year shots, then we got pregnant with our fifth and started researching. Now that we are more educated we will do no more of them. But thats just us.

 

[marvin]

Just some food for thought: Several years ago in my hometown, there was an outbreak of measles in pre schools and Kindergarten. Many children became seriously ill, some children died. None of the children were vaccinated for religious reasons ( I believe they were JW or 7th Day Adventist).

These diseases( measles, mumps,rubella) are still around and they are far from benign. Even chicken pox can cause serious complications. Maybe we should think about the greater good here.

 

[ladylady]

marvin - there have also been outbreaks of measles in schools where most of the kids (and sometimes all of the kids) were vaccinated. so vaccines didn’t really help them then, either.

 

[mom2boyz]

Where were these schools that had the measles outbreaks? What year did this occur? What types of vaccinations did the children receive? When did the children who were vaccinated receive their MMR? Was it before the recommended age? Do you have sources where we can read information about these outbreaks? Did any of the vaccinated children die? Who was the original source of the outbreak? Was it a vaccinated child or unvaccinated child?

 

[luvmykids]

Shari:

We don’t eat fish because of this fact. And if you know anything of how these vaccines are made and all the chemicals that are put into them, it’s disgusting. Just my oppinion. I don’t judge anyone for getting vaccines. My first was vaccinated and my second had everything but his 5 year shots, then we got pregnant with our fifth and started researching. Now that we are more educated we will do no more of them. But thats just us.

Well, great, do you drink water? And what’s in the milk you drink? Or on the vegetables and fruit you eat?

 

[marvin]

ladylady:

marvin - there have also been outbreaks of measles in schools where most of the kids (and sometimes all of the kids) were vaccinated. so vaccines didn’t really help them then, either.

Where was this?

 

[marvin]

mom2boyz:

Where were these schools that had the measles outbreaks? What year did this occur? What types of vaccinations did the children receive? When did the children who were vaccinated receive their MMR? Was it before the recommended age? Do you have sources where we can read information about these outbreaks? Did any of the vaccinated children die? Who was the original source of the outbreak? Was it a vaccinated child or unvaccinated child?

Here’s a link to the NY Times archive. Scroll down to the articles about Philadelphia and measles 1991:

topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/measles/index.html?offset=30&

 

[CatholicSam]

spacecadet:

ignorant vaxing is also a wager. you’d have to be a fool to think no negative affects have ever happened due to vaxs. even though i did choose to vax i reasearched the best way to handle it

Not to get off-topic, but could you give us a brief outline of your researched way to vaccinate, Spacecadet? You mentioned breastfeeding before and after–could you please explain? I do this anyway, just to comfort my son, but I didn’t know that it cuts back on side effects. Could you point us to some of the sources you used? When I try to research this I get bombarded with sop-stories of kids who died of adverse effects (yes, it’s tragic, but it seems to be meant to incite panic more than anything), but I’m having a hard time finding objective, clear info. Thanks

Oh, my son is going for his 15 month check-up in two weeks and I am really trying to come to some kind of conclusion about the MMR!! I denied the chicken pox vax last time, but I’m sure they will try push it on us again with the “Well he MUST have it before he goes to school” line. This is stressfull–can’t I just go pray my Rosary now and forget about all this junk?

 

[kamz]

Shari:

The negative effects are so great that a portion of dollars paid for every vaccine is put to a fund to pay the families of the children who are killed by vaccines or mentally/physically damaged. As a matter of fact the government has never really said that vaccinating is the safest way to protect, just the most economical. In Japan their sids rate dropped to zero when they stopped vaccinating babies and waited until they were 2yrs old. I had severe seizures when I was younger for quite a while due to the DPT shot. Just google dangers of vaccines and you will find court records of drug compainies owning up to these kinds of things as well as other info on all the negatives we aren’t told about vaccines. My childs life is more important than to gamble with side effects, especially when a good portion of these have mercury type substainses in them. I chance the illness.

I just googled dangers of not vaccinating your children and that was just as frightening, there are two sides to this and not vaccinating and pretending that something serious won’t happen is just foolish too, you have to be willing to face the consequences in either case, if you choose to vaccinate your children you are taking on the responsibility if something happens and if you choose not to vaccinate and your child becomes ill with something that would they have been vaccianted against they never would have become ill with, be totally prepared to blame only yourself, as adults making adult decisions, we have to always be prepared to stand behind our decisions even if our decisions turn out to be wrong and something bad does happen.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

marvin:

Here’s a link to the NY Times archive. Scroll down to the articles about Philadelphia and measles 1991:

topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/measles/index.html?offset=30&

ahh yes, let’s look at what I noticed on that link…

Doctors say it is probably not the virus that has changed but who gets the disease, and they add that the vaccine now protecting adults may paradoxically leave their infants more vulnerable. As a result, a number of local health authorities have started to recommend an extra shot for infants during outbreaks of the disease.

In case you missed it, they are saying the vaccine is NOT working. Not only that but the vaccines we adults have had are making our children MORE vulnerable. The vaccine given during an outbreak may not even be of benefit because they don’t know if the disease has mutated to be more deadly or if those who have been vaccinated (yes the vaccinated, not unvaccinated) have developed a more severe reaction to the disease.

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It should also be noted that of the 3160 who contracted the measles only 11 died, that’s .003481 of the cases. That’s a VERY low mortality rate.

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Very interesting indeed…