Catholic shift gives Democrats big boost

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Richardols said:
It’s not a matter of honesty over priorities. I believed that the Republican Party’s leadership and conduct of our nation’s affairs have become disasters that could only be overcome by voting against them.

I can put it no better than Mike did when he posted, “It is ludicrous to keep voting in “pro-life” Republicans simply because they’re pro-life while the Government falls apart.” That is IT in a nutshell as far as I’m concerned.
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Richardols…you better hang on tight. I hear a breach in the space/time continuum emerging that may signal the end of life as we know it.

We actually agreed on something. 😃
 
mike182d said:
You know absolutely nothing about me, my ministry, my involvement in the Church or in politics and yet you have the audacity to judge me as the cause of the pro-life movement’s fall. Ironically, the pro-life movement’s fall has more to do with people like you: your sense of self-righteousness and your complete inability to see the forrest for the trees.

The two-party system of Government is not conducive to actually “solving” problems in America. The country is run by a duopoly - two political powers with virtually no accountability or fear of being broken up. In their perception, you, as a voter, have only two choices: them or us. Thus, unlike a business which must meet the demands of its shareholders and consumers, political parties need only to make themselves appear “better than the other guy.” How would Republicans get elected if abortion wasn’t an issue? How would Democrats get elected if social security wasn’t an issue? Political parties exist not to solve problems but to maintain their power by prolonging them.

It is terribly naive to think that keeping Republicans in power for all eternity would magically eradicate abortion. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

For your information, I am staunchly pro-life, but I am also a patriotic American who would die for the idea of an American Republic that our Founding Fathers fought and died for. America today is most certainly not that dream.
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I apologize for my tone, I have no doubt you are as Pro Life as I am.
If you read through my previous posts here, you will see that I have said that Pro Lifers need to unite and send a message about the issue to Republicans and Democrats. However Democrats as part of their platform are staunchly pro choice and Republicans are mostly pro life. In the governors race in Illinois I was very outspoken about not voting for the republican candidate because she was pro choice. The democrat was even more pro choice. If a strong unified message is not sent, the erosion will continue.
I again apologize to you, I also feel that a party in power to long will corrupt itself.
 
dmelosi said:
I apologize for my tone, I have no doubt you are as Pro Life as I am.
If you read through my previous posts here, you will see that I have said that Pro Lifers need to unite and send a message about the issue to Republicans and Democrats. However Democrats as part of their platform are staunchly pro choice and Republicans are mostly pro life. In the governors race in Illinois I was very outspoken about not voting for the republican candidate because she was pro choice. The democrat was even more pro choice. If a strong unified message is not sent, the erosion will continue.
I again apologize to you, I also feel that a party in power to long will corrupt itself.
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I accept your gracious apology, as my over-reaction did not warrant it.

For the record, I am a registered Republican but am first and foremost a conservative. It is very important to send a unified pro-life message, but it is equally important to send a message to the party who professes our beliefs to “do what we elected you to do in the first place or we’ll kick you out.” We should demand not only to be heard but to be taken seriously. Complaceny runs rampant in Government.

As I said before, do not fret over this election. It was a poorly executed mid-term election that will not bode well for Democrats (the reasons for which are a topic for another thread). When Republicans were the minority and made their “Contract with America” in '92, there was no stopping them. Not only did the American public buy into it, but the Republicans themselves were motivated to get things done. It’s almost as if conservatives work best when on the defensive.

This is a short-term loss for a long-term gain.
 
mike182d said:
I accept your gracious apology, as my over-reaction did not warrant it.

For the record, I am a registered Republican but am first and foremost a conservative. It is very important to send a unified pro-life message, but it is equally important to send a message to the party who professes our beliefs to “do what we elected you to do in the first place or we’ll kick you out.” We should demand not only to be heard but to be taken seriously. Complaceny runs rampant in Government.

As I said before, do not fret over this election. It was a poorly executed mid-term election that will not bode well for Democrats (the reasons for which are a topic for another thread). When Republicans were the minority and made their “Contract with America” in '92, there was no stopping them. Not only did the American public buy into it, but the Republicans themselves were motivated to get things done. It’s almost as if conservatives work best when on the defensive.

This is a short-term loss for a long-term gain.
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Thank you for your reply. The point I am trying though is that regardless of the other issues, there is a too little of a unified voice on the Pro Life issue, the Pro Life importance is eroding.
 
mike182d said:
This holds especially true for individual politicians who disagree with a tenant of their respective party. Voting in a “pro-choice” Republican isn’t going to further the advancement of “women’s rights” as the Republican Party is against it. I would expect the converse to be true as well.
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I heartily disagree. The reason that the Republicans are more signifigantly pro-life today and the Democrats and signifigantly pro-abortion rights is precisely because of movements at the lower levels of activism and socio-political growth whereby things changed due to a continual influx of elected representatives who held to an ideology which was not the party norm in, say, the early 70s. Over time, these politicians gained increasing influence to the point of where things are today.
 
dmelosi said:
Thank you for your reply. The point I am trying though is that regardless of the other issues, there is a too little of a unified voice on the Pro Life issue, the Pro Life importance is eroding.
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Is it eroding or has it just never really been signifigantly there as a unified voice in the first place?
 
chicago said:
Is it eroding or has it just never really been signifigantly there as a unified voice in the first place?
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Sure there have been a unified voice. Only the vocal ones, but still enough to make some difference. Now as it heats up and erosion in evident, we need more of a unified voice, adding to the base already there. I think the thing that has “eroded” most is the understanding that abortion = murder. That mostly has been dumbed down.
 
The “silent majority” then to be just that silent. So when the issue comes up they might agree with the pro-life stand, but, will not help to promote life. Thus many of the “silent majority” want to make sure they don"t offend those that do not agree with them.

Being PC will be the end of morals in this country. (USA)
 
KathleenElsie said:
Being PC will be the end of morals in this country. (USA)
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Not at all, KE. If the rest of the country is “PC” (whatever that is supposed to mean) are you and your family going to become wantons? No way. I know my family won’t. And others won’t either. So, it won’t by a long shot be the end of morality.
 
KathleenElsie said:
The “silent majority” then to be just that silent. So when the issue comes up they might agree with the pro-life stand, but, will not help to promote life. Thus many of the “silent majority” want to make sure they don"t offend those that do not agree with them.

Being PC will be the end of morals in this country. (USA)
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Being PC or pro choice will not be the end of the morals in this country, but will change what morality means. Instead of morals being based on our Catholic faith, it will be based on “if I it doesn’t hurt me it’s ok”. We have to hang tight to this most important basis of what is moral?
 
dmelosi said:
Being PC or pro choice will not be the end of the morals in this country, but will change what morality means. Instead of morals being based on our Catholic faith, it will be based on “if I it doesn’t hurt me it’s ok”.
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Yes, our morals are based on our faith, but the morals of those who don’t accept our faith may be different. Consider birth control for example - other than us, most others, including other Christians, consider birth control good stewardship.
 
Richardols said:
Yes, our morals are based on our faith, but the morals of those who don’t accept our faith may be different. Consider birth control for example - other than us, most others, including other Christians, consider birth control good stewardship.
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Don’t we know that right is right? First step is to bring our fellow Catholics to that understanding. Other Christian faiths roots come from the Catholic Faith. A bigger undertaking, but a pretty good apologetic movement out there.

The big picture is to do what is right. We have to hold fast to that, because more and more Catholics are not holding fast, thus the erosion. My entire point is that the Catholics that do understand the faith, and why, hold fast.
Everyone understands that their are other extremely important issues, very worthy of being passionate about, BUT everytime we “excuse” the most important issue “life” the erosion continues.
 
Richardols said:
Not at all, KE. If the rest of the country is “PC” (whatever that is supposed to mean) are you and your family going to become wantons? No way. I know my family won’t. And others won’t either. So, it won’t by a long shot be the end of morality.
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Political Correctness will be the end of public statements on morality in the USA. Private morality in our families is being challenged on all sides. It becomes harder and harder for the children or poorly taught to understand moral values. Many of us have chosen to home school, limit almost all TV and movies in our homes as we teach our young people how to behave. We are looked upon as “old” fashioned and strange.

Society has no roots. Just look at how the children dress and speak. Society makes excuses for actions that are wrong. It tends to allow a larger and larger gray area instead of seeing things as “right” or “wrong” “good” or “bad”.

History has shown morals tend to go down not up when exposed to each other. Divorce, abortion, political power, greed and the me me me are all growing. The Church is getting smaller and smaller in many cases. Some denominations are changing the rules to allow for the “me” generations wants. I see little evidence of things getting better.

I pray that our families can “keep on keeping on.” I pray that your family or mine won’t be come wantons. But, there is never a guarantee of how our children or the next generation will behave or turn out.
 
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KathleenElsie:
I pray that our families can “keep on keeping on.” I pray that your family or mine won’t be come wantons. But, there is never a guarantee of how our children or the next generation will behave or turn out.
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Certainly, but there were no guarantees even when the Church had more influence 50-60 years ago. There weren’t as many as now to be sure, but some Catholic boys still went to jail back then and some Catholic girls still got pregnant out of wedlock in the 50s.
 
The kinds of crimes being committed now are the more serious. When the kids get into trouble now we make excuses for them and forget that consequences are also needed.

No where near as many as now society has made sexuality something to admire. The babies were placed for adoption in most cases. Or there was a hurried wedding, I remember when some people said “the first baby can come at any time the second takes nine months”.
 
KathleenElsie said:
Or there was a hurried wedding, I remember when some people said “the first baby can come at any time the second takes nine months”.
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🙂 I had a first cousin who had a “hurried” wedding back in the 1950s. She and her husband turned out to become fine parents of four who raised their kids as good Catholics. Decent Catholics though they were, they had jumped the gun on the first little one.
 
Yes in the 1950’s people still took responsibility for their actions.
 
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