Catholic Teaching and Immunization Policy

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I’m going to swerve a little off topic.
I’m not an antivaxxer–in fact, I’ve run flu vaccine clinics.

But I feel two things at the same time.

One, government vaccine mandates make me very uneasy (I don’t like the idea of the government forcing me to take anything)

Two, I do have a concern that exemptions for religious/philosophical/ethical reasons could backfire badly–the worlds oldest religions (Hindu, Judaism, Christian, etc, the ones that have been around a thousand years or more) don’t object to vaccines. It’s only the newer ones that do.
Or, people who don’t even worship consistently can claim “exemption!”
I worry that too many of those people will opt out, fewer people will get vaccinated, the government will intervene with forced vaccinations, then conscience rights for serious religious people will be jepordized
 
Pup7 said:
There IS a level at which it becomes harmful.
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This is so important.
Sola dosis facit venenum (this is a Catholic site after all!) or The dose makes the poison.
People should know all seafood naturally contain traces of organomecury compounds but it doesn’t harm the average person because of the amount they eat.
Also, apparently, some used to prescribe a mercury salt to treat syphilis. It didn’t kill them because of the dose.
One can also overdose on vitamins too. Exceed the ranges and vitamins become toxins. Then there’s water poisoning.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
I’m going to swerve a little off topic.
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Smiling because I think we’ve all done that already. 😉 You’re fine.

I agree there’s an issue with mandating vaccines - even as I also think it’s not the worst idea. We mandate a lot of other stuff that a lot of people say is unnecessary. But I do completely see where there’s a difference in ‘forcing’ someone to wear a seatbelt and forcing someone to take an injectable drug.

France is about to mandate vaccination. The UK is revisiting the issue as we speak. Norway has had it for decades. I know the conversation in the UK is starting because of the rising tide of non-vaccinators. At some point it becomes a public health issue.

And yep, there’s also abuse of the religious exemption with people claiming it and it having nothing to do with religion. (I’m not sure the Amish all prescribe to vaccination, though, even though I’d think given the numbers that live in one Old Order household they certainly should.)
 
From the paper you cited:
There is no reliable evidence that data fraud, the deliberate fabrication or falsification of data, is a common occurrence in clinical trials. Moreover, in multicenter clinical trials, fraud perpetrated by a single investigator or at a single site is very unlikely to affect the scientific conclusions of the trial. However, whatever the true incidence of data fraud in clinical trials, high-profile cases provide sobering evidence that it does occur regularly. When fraud is detected after the results have been announced, the negative impact on the perception of the results of the trial in question as well as on the public perception of the clinical trial enterprise itself can be profound.
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Fraud can be detected through administrative work. There can be a lot of paper work and note-taking by researchers in labs and the point is to keep track of things. I don’t work in the health industry but health regulators are said to regularly inspect such things. Blockchains are becoming popular too.


And studies are done continuously even after drugs are improved. There’s a lot of scrutiny.
 
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Which has nothing to do with your statement on ingredients, which is what that comment was directed at. Again, you’re twisting my response to fit your narrative.

I already said data manipulation exists. That’s why you don’t take one source as gospel.

Good grief, man - stop trying to spin what I say.
 
I’m apparently out of likes for the day, or you’d get one for that post. I’d give you two if I could.

I’m home on convalescent leave after a procedure. I’m bored.

Being on CAF all day is probably not what the doctor ordered! LOL.
 
Thank you - I actually think I’m doing pretty well at this point.

I’m up and feisty. My husband takes this as a good sign. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
pnewton said:
What do you think the food you eat is made of, or you, for that matter?
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We all need to eat to in order to live; you don’t need to pump your healthy body with pharmaceutical products to live. The moment it became a multi-billion dollar industry and hundreds of millions of bodies became customers, was the moment the medical industry became a business. After all, insurance will pay for it. But good luck if you don’t have insurance.
 
Gab123 said:
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pnewton:
What do you think the food you eat is made of, or you, for that matter?
Click to expand...
We all need to eat to in order to live; you don’t need to pump your healthy body with pharmaceutical products to live. The moment it became a multi-billion dollar industry and hundreds of millions of bodies became customers, was the moment the medical industry became a business. After all, insurance will pay for it. But good luck if you don’t have insurance.
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Thank goodness I’m in Australia where we don’t have to worry about that. As an aside you know the man who invented the polio vaccine refused to patent it as he believed it belonged to the world?
 
And tested it on himself and his family first. This wa at a time when was rampant.
 
pnewton said:
From a libertarian point of view, or simply an American point of view, I think you may be right. However, Catholic moral theology reminds us that we have a responsibility to society.
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Yet the Catholic church rarely demands any law mandating a “responsibility to society.” When to undergo an act of risk-taking for another is a matter of contextual consideration that must necessarily must be guided by conscience,not legislative fiat. As the saying goes, where there’s risk, there must be choice. If vaccines were 100% safe and 100% effective, your moral case for mandates would be flawless.
 
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Of course conflicts of interest are real. It’s why the study participants are legally obligated to reveal any and you’ll usually find them in the opening portions of the journal article.

And I’ve already said one needs to know how to read research and abstracts are never enough. I’m hoping that wasn’t pointed toward me. 😉
 
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Alex337 said:
We all need to eat to in order to live; you don’t need to pump your healthy body with pharmaceutical products to live.
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GAAAH!!! Edit edit edit…

ANNOYING because that wasn’t who said that. Corrected below…
 
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Gab123 said:
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pnewton:
What do you think the food you eat is made of, or you, for that matter?
Click to expand...
We all need to eat to in order to live; you don’t need to pump your healthy body with pharmaceutical products to live. The moment it became a multi-billion dollar industry and hundreds of millions of bodies became customers, was the moment the medical industry became a business. After all, insurance will pay for it. But good luck if you don’t have insurance.
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Really?

All those people who died of polio before there was a vaccine would probably disagree with you, but they can’t - they’re dead of a disease modern medicine eradicated in this country. (For now, anyway.)

So since we need to eat to live, all those organophosphates - which we KNOW are harmful - are okay?

Like I said, I hope someone else pumps your gas. That benzene is pretty bad for you.

But then again, the benzene exposure from pumping gas is pretty much equivalent to the exposure of “stuff” in vaccines. You get more benzene living near an industrial complex.

And more mercury from eating fish.
 
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