Catholic vs Southern Baptist

[kristanl]

I go to my church because I agree with my church on matters of doctrine and I love the community, as well as the fact that my entire family has gone there since my great-grandfather joined in 1957. I rarely visit other churches for those reasons. I love learning about other Christian traditions, so I’ll visit another denomination every now and then if it dosen’t conflict with attending my church.

In the SBC, we are Confessional Protestants united around the Baptist Faith and Message while still respecting local church autonomy. These quotes from Articles IV and V of the BF&M should clear things up:

Thank you for your response.

But its pretty much saying God has chosen who is saved, and if you are saved and sin you will still go to heaven. But what about someone who has committed a serious sin? We call them mortal sins, what about people who murder but are “saved”. Some will say they really arent saved. How do you know God is not condemning them to hell, and how do you know that is they do feel bad about their sin but never confess or ask for forgiveness, how do you know they will be saved? How do you know that God chose you to be saved, and no matter what sins your commit you will be saved?

Thank you,
Kristan

 

[Bill_Pick]

PAUL3144

You stated that if you wanted communion in between when your church has it, you will go to an Episcopal or a Methodist church.
May I ask then, if you ever would want it between when your church has it, why would you go to a church that only has it a certain amount of times a year, or why you would go to a different church which has some different beliefs then you?

Also, I have talked to many Southern Baptists who say OSAS means that you can do ANYTHING on Earth, except denounce God and you will go to heaven, because Jesus died for your sins on the cross, so all the sins you commit are already forgiven once you accept Jesus as your lord and personal savior.
Could you explain this to me, in regards to what you said about sancitfication I think??

I’m just wondering what you believe because it seems as though many different churches in the same denomination even teach different things?

All Southern Baptists church DID NOT ALL TEACH the same thing,some say a woman can not wear mkae up ,and other do some say you can not wear panys other do, the list just goes on and on

 

[pipper]

PAUL3144

You stated that if you wanted communion in between when your church has it, you will go to an Episcopal or a Methodist church.
May I ask then, if you ever would want it between when your church has it, why would you go to a church that only has it a certain amount of times a year, or why you would go to a different church which has some different beliefs then you?

Also, I have talked to many Southern Baptists who say OSAS means that you can do ANYTHING on Earth, except denounce God and you will go to heaven, because Jesus died for your sins on the cross, so all the sins you commit are already forgiven once you accept Jesus as your lord and personal savior.
Could you explain this to me, in regards to what you said about sancitfication I think??

I’m just wondering what you believe because it seems as though many different churches in the same denomination even teach different things?

That surprises me as well, since in the SBC teaching Episcopalians and Methodists don’t “get saved” by saying a strictly mental “sinner’s prayer”. Which leads to repeated efforts at “gettin saved” and repeated dunkings, (the only legitamate form of baptism for baptists).

Adult and adolescent Baptists only are baptised after they “git saved”. Getting saved is the thing that matters and forgives sins. After they say the “sinners prayer” they are “saved”, and they are baptised only becuase the are following Jesus’ example, it has nothing to do with salvation or forgiveness of sin.

They have an “out” on people who continue to sin after “getting saved”, they will just say the persons was never “really saved” to begin with and they say the sinner’s prayer over and over.

Baptists believe that only people who “get saved” are true Christians at all, which leads to heavy proseletyzing on their part. They want to turn Catholics, Episcopalians Orthodox and the rest of “unsaved” people into their version of Christians. This sheep stealing is remarkably effective though. Thier are hundreds of poorly catechised ex Catholics and others filling Baptist pews each sunday. Baptists do this by qouting snatched fron context proof texts. But they ignore the parts of the bible that do not support their getting saved constuct, like Acts 2:38 amoung others that state clearly that baptism is for for forgiveness of sin.

You will notice that in his response the other poster ommited the fact that Baptist worship and prayer is non-participatory, The congregation only sits and listens to extempore prayers said at the pulpit for the congegation. That to goes back to Calvin who taught the only participation allowed the people is to sit and listen and sing “songs”.

 

[Paul3144]

That surprises me as well, since in the SBC teaching Episcopalians and Methodists don’t “get saved” by saying a strictly mental “sinner’s prayer”.

Neither do Baptists.

Adult and adolescent Baptists only are baptised after they “git saved”. Getting saved is the thing that matters and forgives sins. After they say the “sinners prayer” they are “saved”, and they are baptised only becuase the are following Jesus’ example, it has nothing to do with salvation or forgiveness of sin.

The baptism part is true, but the rest is not. Are there any Baptist confessions that you can quote to prove your point?

They have an “out” on people who continue to sin after “getting saved”, they will just say the persons was never “really saved” to begin with and they say the sinner’s prayer over and over.

We ALL continue to sin after we are justified by faith. That includes both of us. Care to back what you said up?

believe that only people who “get saved” are true Christians at all, which leads to heavy proseletyzing on their part. They want to turn Catholics, Episcopalians Orthodox and the rest of “unsaved” people into their version of Christians.

That’s a lie straight out of the pits of hell. Salvation does not come by reciting a specific verbal formula about Jesus, but by faith, which then results in works. Again, care to back up your statement out of a Baptist confession? If I want to know about the Roman Catholic faith, I don’t go to Jack Chick. You’re doing the same basic thing that Chick does, just in reverse.

You will notice that in his response the other poster ommited the fact that Baptist worship and prayer is non-participatory, The congregation only sits and listens to extempore prayers said at the pulpit for the congegation. That to goes back to Calvin who taught the only participation allowed the people is to sit and listen and sing “songs”.

I’m sorry I forgot to mention the non-participatory things we do like congregational Scripture readings and the responsive readings in the Baptist Hymnal.

 

[po18guy]

That’s a lie straight out of the pits of hell.

Before a blanket condemnation, let’s ask pipper to explain the foundation for this statement. It could be an honest mistake (which all of us make), or it could be from experience with an unorthodox Baptist congregation. Let’s see.

 

[Zenas]

I’m sorry I forgot to mention the non-participatory things we do like congregational Scripture readings and the responsive readings in the Baptist Hymnal.

We might do either of these once a year of less at my church. How often does your church do them?

 

[Zenas]

That’s semi-true. There’s no problem with the word “sacrament” in and of itself. The only reason I use the word ordinance is because of Baptist tradition.

Paul, you seem to understand Baptists fairly well but you don’t understand sacraments. A sacrament is a tangible or visible modality of imparting grace, e.g., baptism for remission of sins. Baptists don’t believe this. They believe grace is the free gift of God imparted exclusively through faith. Most Baptists will say that if grace were received through a sacrament it would be a works based system of belief, which they reject completely.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Before a blanket condemnation, let’s ask pipper to explain the foundation for this statement. It could be an honest mistake (which all of us make), or it could be from experience with an unorthodox Baptist congregation. Let’s see.

That is a very strong statement I am waiting for a answer

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Pepeluali your new friend enjoyed her experience at your youth group, what’s to stop you from enjoying yours at theirs?
Ask questions, people enjoy telling you (and showing you) what they believe; and it shows respect, interest, likeability.
They are not necessarily out to convert you nor to be converted. Usually on both sides there’s a checking out period. They want to be liked as much as yourself. Enjoy it. Your friend enjoyed her time, and wants to share.

 

[pipper]

Neither do Baptists.

The baptism part is true, but the rest is not. Are there any Baptist confessions that you can quote to prove your point?

We ALL continue to sin after we are justified by faith. That includes both of us. Care to back what you said up?

That’s a lie straight out of the pits of hell. Salvation does not come by reciting a specific verbal formula about Jesus, but by faith, which then results in works. Again, care to back up your statement out of a Baptist confession? If I want to know about the Roman Catholic faith, I don’t go to Jack Chick. You’re doing the same basic thing that Chick does, just in reverse.

I’m sorry I forgot to mention the non-participatory things we do like congregational Scripture readings and the responsive readings in the Baptist Hymnal.

Does that mean that “gettin saved” forgives all sins, even those that have yet to be commited?

I will not quote Bapist confesions because I am a Catholic and not a Baptist.

I was raised in a family that is either %100 Southern Baptist or “church of Christ” and both proseletyze Catholics, Episcopalians and other “un-saved” people. The Baptists and cofC people are continually stealing each others sheep, becuase neither thinks the other Christian.

My family disowned me completely since I in their words “left Christ and Christanity for the Catholic church”. Not a one of them even speaks to me anymore. So in my case that is no “lie from the pits of hell” at all only, just the voice of my experience. And I have much experience with Baptists and cofc since they raised me and I had an uncle who was a Baptist preacher.

I am sorry for giving the impression that saying a “sinner’s prayer” is all that is required.
But you OTOH must admit that salvation is a mental/emotional event for Evangelicals, since they have discarded the Sacramnents or made them into symbolic only ordinances.

In the Catholic church the 7 sacraments actually accomplish what they signify.

I know all about responsive readings. What is was trying to get at is Evangelical (not just Baptist) unparticipatory prayer. To them extempore prayer when the pray-er says the prayer for the congregation to only hear, will always trump written liturgical prayer where the people can participate,

 

[altabz]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and this will be my first question out of many to come.

I recently got my friend who is a Southern Baptist to come to my youth group. She really enjoyed it, but now it is my turn to go to her youth group. And I’d just like to know what they believe that is different from us Catholics, what do they believe that we don’t and vice versa. Just so I am prepared to answer any questions they may ask me about my faith and what I believe.

P.S off-topic and I probably should make an entirely different thread for this but can someone explain Sacred Tradition to me? My priest talked about it last week but I didn’t really understand it.

visit this site www.catholic.com or just push the button above that marks faith beside the button forum and you can ask all the question their being thrown by your baptist friend

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

It amazes me that a Catholic is condemned by a non-Catholic by the one thing he/she cherishes: The Bible (put together by Catholics). Using theology which has a Catholic base (the Trinty, the humanity / divinity of Christ, etc.) Run down the Catholic Church and then turn to proclaim Catholic Truth. Time spent with fundamentalist Protestants was often amusing, and often what was being challenged were things Catholics too thought wrong. Ignorance is the devil’s greatest friend.

As Scripture says,
“None so blind as them who will not see.”
“Out of their own mouths you shall condemn them.”

 

[Jon_Hus]

Hey Kevin,

Reach around that big old back of yours and give it a hearty pat, you deserve it brother. Awsome post and love the large font! Really adds to the message! I just can’t wait for your next exposition so please don’t delay.

Jon

 

[Dettingen]

There’s so much variation between Catholicism and Baptists that it would take a book to distinguish them.

The main misunderstanding I see in this discussion is structural.

Unlike the RCC which is pyramidal and takes direction from the top, each Baptist congregation is independent of all the others. Baptists do band together in formal organization in order to pool resources and more effectively funnel money and energy toward certain projects such as missions, universities, or publication. So the Southern Baptist Convention (or the Northern Baptist Convention, the Nathional Baptist Convention, or any of the others) doesn’t control member congregations, it doesn’t determine doctrine or interpretation, it doesn’t make rules for worship or practice. Thus, there’s no uniformity in theology or practice imposed by anybody.

The main tenent of the Baptists is the ‘priesthood of all believers.’ That means that there’s no organized priesthood necessary to teach or interpret or intercede. Every believer is thought to have the capacity to receive revelation, understanding, etc. (This is also why there’s so many different Baptist congregations.)

Baptists reject credalism, though in the 1960s they did publish a statement intended to summarize Baptist ideas. This was revised in 2000, when the resulting ‘Statement of Baptist Faith and Message’ was felt by many to be too rigid and too close to being a creed. Consequently, many congregations and universities withdrew their membership from the SBC, most notably Furman University in South Carolina. Because of the independence of each congregation, these withdrawls cannot be seen as schismatic.

I did notice a few specifics drew some attention above, so I thought I’d address them.

Dancing has been considered by many–not just Baptists–as an activity that could very easily lead to sin. (I think this is what Catholics call ‘occasion of sin’?) Much like kissing one’s sweetheart in the back seat of a car on a secluded road after dark. So no dancing. Baylor University, a top Southern Baptist institution, revised its stance on dancing in the 1980s. Wittily, the president of the college and his wife opened the new pro-dancing era with a minuet.

Regarding the Lord’s Supper. Protestants generally believe Jesus was being figurative when He said “this is My Body” just as He certainly was speaking metaphorically when He said “I am the vine, you are the branches.” As a temperance church, Baptists cannot use anything alcoholic in ritual, therefore grape juice. As for crackers: I’ve seen loaves of bread, crackers, and wafers all used.

Organs vs. pianos: depends on the wealth, taste, and preferences of the congregation.

Sermons: length and vigor depend on the taste and preferences of the congregation.

I hope this helps enhance your understanding.

Pax,

Dettingen

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Jesus said, “Come unto Me”. He didn’t say come unto the Catholic Church or come unto the Southern Baptist Convention; He said “Come unto Me.”
St Paul says similar, are we baptised into Paul?

 

[Bill_Pick]

No Jesus did not say come to the Baptist church because we only had the Cathloic Church

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

No Jesus did not say come to the Baptist church because we only had the Cathloic Church

And according to the Orthodox Church we only had the Orthodox Church. And according to the Acts of the Apostles we didn’t have the Christian Church - We were a small sect of the Jews.

 

[AdrianP]

Kevin, read this:
monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6114

 

[AdrianP]

There was not such thing like a small sect of Jews. The transition from OLD LAW to NEW LAW was abrupt.

The thing is that the valid OLD DOCUMENTS contradict protestantsim this is why Protestantism had to discard them and name them TRADITION and by doing this they could come forward with any teachings of man and present it as being true. To escape the falsehood of Protestantism you need to research the Valid Historical Documents for yourself.

Read the Liturgy of Apostle and Evangelist Mark : ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.xii.iii.html

What you see there? Prayers for the Dead , Priests, deacons, Holy Communion. Where are the gatherings you believe into without priest?
Before 1500 all historical Christian Documents speak about Holy Communion the way Catholics and Orthodox people speak not about symbols.

Regarding baptism there were **ONLY **2 voices that spoke against infant baptism, one thinking to delay it at age 3 and another one to delay it so that will cover as multiple sin as possible but neither voice was listen to . There was no such thing as age of reason or what Happen today in Baptist Church.

"Similar expressions are found in succeeding generations by Origen (185 - 254) and Cyprian (215 - 258) who reflect the consensus voiced at the Council of Carthage in 254. The 66 bishops said: “We ought not hinder any person from Baptism and the grace of God… especially infants. . . those newly born.”

See , WHAT Council of Carthage in 254, WAY AHEAD OF CONSTANTINE says?
Read and STUDY history and knowledge will set you free.

WHOSE TEACHINGS ARE YOU BELIEVING?
Until 1700 all Christians baptized their children.After 1700 Baptists developed their own tradition. We even have an follower of one Apostle saying to baptize infants.

 

[Karen1960]

All Southern Baptists church DID NOT ALL TEACH the same thing,some say a woman can not wear mkae up ,and other do some say you can not wear pants other do, the list just goes on and on

This is one of the things about the Baptist church that boggles my mind. For a church that embraces OSAS, they sure have a bunch of rules to follow.
Also with in order to become a member in “good standing” they must follow a bunch rules, but before this can happen, the church will decide if they can even join.

And this is the best part, if they sin, after several attempts to bring them back, they will be shun by the entire congretation. If that person never learns from his sin and never returns to the church, then is he still saved or are there “loopholes” in this doctrine

also they deny mortal sin, so what sin is so bad that they call it bad, because again according to a Baptist, all sin is bad.

Now let me get this straight, they are always saved, never lose it, but if the Baptist church elders choose to, they can be removed from the church? Will someone explain that one? Who gave them that authority, when one of the biggest complaints and remarks made about Catholics are that we follow blindly what the Pope and local Bishops say and they mock how we can excommunicated for not following the rules?