Catholic vs Southern Baptist

[Supercatholic]

If you follow the history it goes back to John the Baptist. Try Google or Yahoo and search Baptist History.

Masters Sevant, Let’s throw logic to the wind and suppose you are right that the SBs history goes back to John the Baptist. There is not one single verse in the Bible that John the Baptist started a church of any kind. But if he did start a church and all four Gospel writers forgot to mention it, do you think it would be greater or even equal to the one Jesus started. All four Gospels basically state that John says “One mightier than I is coming whose sandals I am not worthy to loose.” So holding to your historic perspective you have no choice but to agree that you “historically” John the Baptist Baptists are not worthy to even loosen the sandals of us mighty Catholics. Remember you said it, I didn’t. Another heresy refuted. Thanks to SUPERCATHOLIC!!! That’s me!

 

[Bill_Pick]

In basketball, put your money with the Southern Baptists.

In footbal, put your money on the Catholics.

Baseball, hard to tell, but if it is hot, go with the Baptists, as they don’t drink and will not likely be tossing down brewskies between innings.

Golf, don’t bet on golf. There is this Buddhist guy…

Swimming, hey, you know where to put your money there!

Rugby, you know those Irish boys will be drawing blood.

You have one thing wrong when you say Baptist do not drink,they do not drink in front of one another.

 

[pismopal]

You have one thing wrong when you say Baptist do not drink,they do not drink in front of one another.

And Baptists cannot say hello to each other when they meet in a liquor store.

Never take 1 baptist friend fishing…always take 2 …otherwise the 1 Baptist will drink all your beer.

 

[AwGusTeen]

No, the Donatist do not exist as far as I know, but a few Historians believe that the Baptist history passes through these Donatist; my understanding is their were a few divisions within this group, at least one that holds to the same faith as Southern Baptist.

OK - enough with this revisionist history. This all started with the booklet entitled “Trail of Blood”, by J.M. Carroll. Unfortunately, Carroll even later refuted himself:

“Extensive graduate study and independent investigation of church history has, however, convinced [the author - Carroll] that the view he once held so dear has not been, and cannot be, verified. On the contrary, surviving primary documents render the successionist view untenable. . . . Although free church groups in ancient and medieval times sometimes promoted doctrines and practices agreeable to modern Baptists, when judged by standards now acknowledged as baptistic, not one of them merits recognition as a Baptist church. Baptists arose in the 17th century in Holland and England. They are Protestants, heirs of the reformers.” (Baptist Successionism: A Crucial Question in Baptist History [1994], 1–2)

The problem is their is so little remaining records due to destruction, that it is difficult at best to show so much is based off of practices that were seen then and now without little deviation.

That’s a problem all right and a big one at that - for people who posit such historical pap that is. Show us some evidence that ALL of the written records for 2,000 years have been destroyed. Oh wait - you can’t, because the nasty Catholics forced every Anabaptist to cower in their hovels all the while burning every written piece of evidence that they ever produced.

I would not be dogmatic because the written records that are available that are easily traceable go back to the 16th century, then you have the tidbits like that of the Bishop. So for historians to be 100% certain there really needs to be more available historical records.

With NO evidence, they are 0% sure. Look, there is already a thread on this topic that was active up to Dec. 09. Here’s the link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=395851

 

[horselvr]

"Remember you said it, I didn’t. Another heresy refuted. Thanks to SUPERCATHOLIC!!! "

“Never take 1 baptist friend fishing…always take 2 …otherwise the 1 Baptist will drink all your beer.”

“You have one thing wrong when you say Baptist do not drink,they do not drink in front of one another.”



Teneas: "There are to many Southern Baptist down here in Georgia that spill filth from their lips and hate others. "

That same problem exists in South Carolina with the SB’s.

 

[AwGusTeen]

"Remember you said it, I didn’t. Another heresy refuted. Thanks to SUPERCATHOLIC!!! "

“Never take 1 baptist friend fishing…always take 2 …otherwise the 1 Baptist will drink all your beer.”

“You have one thing wrong when you say Baptist do not drink,they do not drink in front of one another.”



Teneas: "There are to many Southern Baptist down here in Georgia that spill filth from their lips and hate others. "

That same problem exists in South Carolina with the SB’s.

Ditto AL…

 

[Masters_Servant]

Masters Sevant, Let’s throw logic to the wind and suppose you are right that the SBs history goes back to John the Baptist. There is not one single verse in the Bible that John the Baptist started a church of any kind. But if he did start a church and all four Gospel writers forgot to mention it, do you think it would be greater or even equal to the one Jesus started. All four Gospels basically state that John says “One mightier than I is coming whose sandals I am not worthy to loose.” So holding to your historic perspective you have no choice but to agree that you “historically” John the Baptist Baptists are not worthy to even loosen the sandals of us mighty Catholics. Remember you said it, I didn’t. Another heresy refuted. Thanks to SUPERCATHOLIC!!! That’s me!

Just as Baptist was not mentioned, none other was either.
The only real point is when one looks at the Bible and what the church did and compare that to the SB today, there are some deviations, but not at the core doctrines.

I also thought Jesus was a Jew?? Proverbs 16:18-18

John 4:22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

“You have one thing wrong when you say Baptist do not drink,they do not drink in front of one another.”



Teneas: "There are to many Southern Baptist down here in Georgia that spill filth from their lips and hate others. "

That same problem exists in South Carolina with the SB’s.

I am sure you can say the same thing about some Catholics, some Jews, some Muslims, some Wiccans, and even a few Episcopalians. In any area where a particular denomination predominates you will find abundant examples of members who follow the law more in the breach than in the observance.

Let’s not throw stones (as a mighty important dude once said).

 

[jen_fla]

I am sure you can say the same thing about some Catholics, some Jews, some Muslims, some Wiccans, and even a few Episcopalians. In any area where a particular denomination predominates you will find abundant examples of members who follow the law more in the breach than in the observance.

Let’s not throw stones (as a mighty important dude once said).

i agree and you are totally correct, but it is hard sometimes to resist the banter. i mean when you see the haters out there with their signs saying “God hates Fg”… who are they usually?.. baptists and other fundamentalist groups. they dumb down the sublime faith that is Christianity.

i am much better now in dealing with their anti-Catholic drivel, but i admit i want to walk up to them and do this:

:slapfight:

Lord forgive me for not being gentle with those that mangle your good Word!

 

[Supercatholic]

Just as Baptist was not mentioned, none other was either.
The only real point is when one looks at the Bible and what the church did and compare that to the SB today, there are some deviations, but not at the core doctrines.

I also thought Jesus was a Jew?? Proverbs 16:18-18

John 4:22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.

The point of my previous post was to make known John the Baptist never started church. And yes you are right Catholic nor any denomination is mentioned in the Bible. Here’s a brief history to bring you to understanding. The New Testament scriptures were written approximately from 46 to 100 AD. There was no Bible at this time. Saint Ignatius was a disciple of the apostle John. Because of heretical teachings and false scriptures mostly provided by the Gnostics, it was Ignatius that put in his early writings “Where the Catholic Church is there is Christ” He used the word Catholic to distinguish the true authentic Christians from the heretical ones. This was around 107 AD. In case you don’t know or don’t want to believe, it was the Catholic church that gave us the original complete Bible late in the 4th century. So with 350 years of the church before all 73 books of scripture were put into a single volume knowm as the Bible they could have easily snuck the word Catholic into the Scriptures. But they didn’t. Why? Because no one respects, reveres, or honors the Holy word of God more than the Catholic Church. Whether you think it was John the Baptist or John Smyth that started your denomination it doesn’t matter. Both were fallible men that never received authority to start a church. I can safely say John the Baptist never started a church. And I can also say that Jesus never said to John Smyth “John Smyth can you please start the Baptist Church because My Church has failed”. If Jesus started a church that failed then I have no obligation to be a Christian, because that would mean Jesus isn’t who he said he was and all his promises of his church being protected, the gates of hell will not prevail against it and the Holy Spirit would prevent it from teaching error was nothing but a bunch of hot air. I’m not writing this stuff to pick on you. I’m writing these things to open your eyes, heart, and mind to come home to Christ’s real family. Some of the best Catholics are former Protestants. Why? Because the deeper they dug to prove the Catholic Church wrong the more they found out it is right. As John Henry Newman a former Protestant once said “The history of Christianity is not Protestantism. If ever there was a safe truth it is this, The Catholicity of the early church is overwhelming. It is undeniable that the early church was Catholic” He also said “To be deep in history is to cease being a Protestant”. You’re absolutely right Jesus was a Jew. A good and faithful one at that. And if you take a historical perspective, the Catholic Church is the original JEWS FOR JESUS.

 

[horselvr]

“I am sure you can say the same thing about some Catholics, some Jews, some Muslims, some Wiccans, and even a few Episcopalians. In any area where a particular denomination predominates you will find abundant examples of members who follow the law more in the breach than in the observance.”

While all that is fine and dandy and also true (I am meeting my Episcopalian pal this afternoon for a Margarita or two to discuss a little problem her Priest son is having)—let’s not forget our sense of humor when it pertains to some of these threads.

In short----Lighten up.

 

[Supercatholic]

“I am sure you can say the same thing about some Catholics, some Jews, some Muslims, some Wiccans, and even a few Episcopalians. In any area where a particular denomination predominates you will find abundant examples of members who follow the law more in the breach than in the observance.”

While all that is fine and dandy and also true (I am meeting my Episcopalian pal this afternoon for a Margarita or two to discuss a little problem her Priest son is having)—let’s not forget our sense of humor when it pertains to some of these threads.

In short----Lighten up.

Who are you responding to? What ARE you talking about? And what does your post have to do with this thread?

 

[horselvr]

Oh Good Grief! The title of this thread is Catholic vs. Southern Baptist

I am responding to Usbek de Perse and it all actually started with you saying, "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Remember you said it, I didn’t. Another heresy refuted. Thanks to SUPERCATHOLIC!!! "

which I chuckled at and then a few others added their funny comments.

Usbek said, “Let’s not throw stones (as a mighty important dude once said).”

In agreement with Usbek I also said bringing a sense of humor to some threads lightens things up.

Sorry I got you side tracked—please resume.

 

[Supercatholic]

Oh Good Grief! The title of this thread is Catholic vs. Southern Baptist

I am responding to Usbek de Perse and it all actually started with you saying, "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Remember you said it, I didn’t. Another heresy refuted. Thanks to SUPERCATHOLIC!!! "

which I chuckled at and then a few others added their funny comments.

Usbek said, “Let’s not throw stones (as a mighty important dude once said).”

In agreement with Usbek I also said bringing a sense of humor to some threads lightens things up.

Sorry I got you side tracked—please resume.

Oh okay, I see now. The best thing to do when responding to a post is click on the quote button of that post, bring your cursor down, right below their message and type in your response. Catholic Answers automatically separates your post from who you are responding to by shading their’s in green. I also have to admit I chuckled when I was writing that previous post. I was going to write “So you admit you Southern Baptists are not worthy to loosen our mighty Catholic sandals”, but then I knew SOMEONE would say “Oh! Now sandals are Catholic too?”

 

[FanOfU2]

Quote: You CAN NOT do whatever you want and get to heaven.

I am a Southern Baptist and I agree fully. If you are truly surrendering to Christ in your life, you are under his lordship. You wont want to do whatever you want. sure you will screw up sometimes, but you should be constantly fighting with the nature of your flesh.

Alot of peoples perception of OSAS seems to be this. Hey we are saved now, so we can do whatever we want, we will go to heaven anyways! This is an evil way of thinking.

In the church I attend, we all agree that once you are saved, you are eternally saved and if you are really saved why would you want to live in sin?

So if you love Christ, then you wont want to sin. When you do sin, the holy spirit will give a sense of guilt, to which you pray to God and tell him you are sorry.

I hope this can help some people out!!

 

[Zenas]

Quote: You CAN NOT do whatever you want and get to heaven.

I am a Southern Baptist and I agree fully. If you are truly surrendering to Christ in your life, you are under his lordship. You wont want to do whatever you want. sure you will screw up sometimes, but you should be constantly fighting with the nature of your flesh.

Alot of peoples perception of OSAS seems to be this. Hey we are saved now, so we can do whatever we want, we will go to heaven anyways! This is an evil way of thinking.

In the church I attend, we all agree that once you are saved, you are eternally saved and if you are really saved why would you want to live in sin?

So if you love Christ, then you wont want to sin. When you do sin, the holy spirit will give a sense of guilt, to which you pray to God and tell him you are sorry.

I hope this can help some people out!!

I can agree with this, as can most Christians. But what if you succumb to temptation and commit a mortal sin (stealing, adultry, etc.) and you die five minutes later before seeking forgiveness? It is clearly the Baptist position that you will still go to Heaven. In fact it is the Baptist position that you will go to Heaven despite this mortal sin even if you live many years and never seek forgiveness. Since you are SBC, I’m sure you are familiar with what the BF&M says about this. OSAS removes a fear of going to Hell from one’s psyche and that is not a good thing to have removed.

 

[Zenas]

Quote: You CAN NOT do whatever you want and get to heaven.

The Baptist Faith and Message would disagree with you. See below from the 2000 edition of the BF&M:

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

 

[FanOfU2]

Zenas,

Thanks for the response! I am from Kentucky as well. Are you Southern Baptist? I had actually never read the official Baptist Message thing, so thanks for posting it! I actually have one foot in Catholic beliefs as well, I believe in the beauty and mystery behind the mass, and you just dont get those kind of deep worship services in the body of believers I belong to.

In regards to your post:

I think that if a Christian commits a sin and dies before praying to God about it, they will still go to heaven.I have no say in this, as I am not God. However, God is just and knows our hearts, and he knows that we screw up ALOT, which is why he sent the Lord Jesus to die for us in the first place.

I think if one is commiting sins and never come to terms with these sins before God, then one should examine oneself to see if they ever really knew Christ to begin with.

You said: OSAS removes a fear of going to Hell from one’s psyche and that is not a good thing to have removed.

I think you are right about this. But I look at OSAS this way. Rather than doing good works for fear of hell, I do them because I love Jesus, and want to follow his example.

Hope my post makes sense, Zenas.
With Love in Christ

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

So many diverse theologies!
Getting to Heaven with sin on one’s soul? Depends who you ask - no wonder those non-Christians hesitate at the threshold. What affect does sin have in one’s life? What is a Christian’s relationship with Christ?
Is it possible to have a relationship with Christ without theology?

 

[pipper]

So many diverse theologies!
Getting to Heaven with sin on one’s soul? Depends who you ask - no wonder those non-Christians hesitate at the threshold. What affect does sin have in one’s life? What is a Christian’s relationship with Christ?
Is it possible to have a relationship with Christ without theology?

Kevin I think that would (just kidding) on whom one asks.

For a lot all is needed is saying a mental prayer, faith and you are in period.

No sacraments needed.