Catholicism (Authority, Succession, and Baptism)

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This thread is started to splinter off from “Why is Catholicism the Correct Faith”. Please refer to it in order to start this one off. We are talking about Apostolic succession, the Authority of the Church, and Baptism.
 
How the Catholic Church is the Apostolic Church (handed down from the Apostles), why the Pope has so much Authority, and how baptism should be perfomed. click here for the full thread.
 
I think yo umay have missunderstood the scripture. Jesus didn’t say He would build the church on Peter, but on Peter’s belief.
 
You’ll also notice that Jesus says,"…and you are Peter." See what happened here is that Peter spoke a truth, then Jesus spoke one in return. The rock that Jesus is referring to is the Truth.
 
We both know that all throughout the Bible, Jesus is referred to as a rock, and he is the truth. He is what the church will be built on. Is the church not built on the Rock, Jesus Christ?
 
Did Peter bring the gospel of our salvation? Did Peter die on a cross for the sins of the world, past, present and future? Of course not.
 
3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Cor. 10:3-4
 
SoonerServant said:
You’ll also notice that Jesus says,"…and you are Peter." See what happened here is that Peter spoke a truth, then Jesus spoke one in return. The rock that Jesus is referring to is the Truth.
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You realize that Peter DIDNT EXIST until Jesus spoke those words? Jesus certainly did speak a truth in return! 🙂
 
SoonerServant said:
3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Cor. 10:3-4
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Dont forget what Saint Paul said in chapter 15!
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 1 Cor 15
Notice it “Peter” and THEN “the Twelve”…detail like that is significant. 😉
 
Significant? But it proves nothing in this situation. It never says anything else other than that.
 
You never answered my question. Was the church built on Peter or Jesus Christ?
 
I’m fixing to get off, but first, give me some scriptures that you use to prove the need for a pope or the exsistence of one in the New Testament church.
 
SoonerServant said:
You never answered my question. Was the church built on Peter or Jesus Christ?
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The Church was built on Peter, but that does not make him the “rock of our salvation” as you say in a later post. It also doesn’t mean that God is not the rock; of course God is the rock. But in the context of Peter and the Church; God is the architect, Peter is the rock and the apostles are the foundation of the Church. I still don’t understand how anyone could see the words: “you are rock and on this rock I will build my church” and think that the rock here could not possibly be Simon Peter. If you think it’s because of the difference between “petros” (for Simon Peter) and “petra” (for the second rock in the sentence) then this couldn’t possibly make a difference, as Jesus would have been speaking in Aramaic at the time and would have said “you are kepha and on this kepha I will build my church”.
 
SoonerServant said:
I’m fixing to get off, but first, give me some scriptures that you use to prove the need for a pope or the exsistence of one in the New Testament church.
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Didn’t you read the articles I provided in post #4. The scriptures you want are there.

By the way the Catholic Church is scriptural.
The Catholic Church" (Greek: katholikos ekklesia) developed from Acts 9:31 “the Church throughout all” (Greek: ekklesia kath olos).
 
SoonerServant said:
You never answered my question. Was the church built on Peter or Jesus Christ?
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The church was built on Peter.
Jesus is the head of that church (and groom).
The groom thing is particularly important to grasp…
you can’t have a groom without a bride, and you can only have ONE bride. That one bride is the Catholic Church, not the millions of Christians who believe in Jesus.
Jesus cannot wed himself to each and every one of us, but he is our brother through his bride, the Church, from which we enter into His family through the sacrament of baptism.
 
SoonerServant said:
Is Peter the rock of our salvation or Jesus Christ?
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Of course, Jesus Christ is our salvation.

But He left this earth to return to His father…his mission having been completed - to open the gates of heaven and to establish His church.

He did not leave us without a means through which His mission could continue on this earth - our continued salvation - the salvation of all humans to enter into this world after He walked the earth -

So He gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom, in His stead, until He comes again on the last day.

Are you suggesting that only Jesus could baptize each of us? If so, when He ascended into heaven for the last time how were the rest of us supposed to enter into his family?

Jesus established that each person had to be baptized with water in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit in order for them to enter into the kingdom. Without the church you and I would not have access to the baptism we needed to enter into His family and thus, heaven. This is why he gave the apostles the power to bind and loosen, to be the instruments of his continued grace on earth in the manner He put into motion.
 
SoonerServant said:
You never answered my question. Was the church built on Peter or Jesus Christ?
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"CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) paragraph 424:
Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.

Source: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt2.htm
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Christ built the Church, His Church on the faith of Peter.

Everything built needs a foundation!

Peter is the Rock, but CHRIST is the foundation that Rock is sitting on. :bible1:
SoonerServant said:
Is Peter the rock of our salvation or Jesus Christ?
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CCC paragraph 169 said:
Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

Source: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt3.htm
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Christ is our salvation.
 
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