Catholicism (Authority, Succession, and Baptism)

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Mommy almost got it right. Lemme show you. Your faith comes through belief. Your belief is affirmed when you confess. The confession of Peter that Jesus is the Messiah of the one true God, is a true confession. It’s this that Jesus says he will build his church on. Not Peter, but the truth. Think about it. If Jesus wasn’t really the Messiah, then that means he’s a liar and God’s a liar. The entire foundation of christianity would fall through. He also says,"…and on thisrock I will build my church,…" Why didn’t he say on Peter? He was talking to Peter when he made the statement.
 
Isaiah 28:16
So this is what the sovereign Lord says:

“See I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed…”
 
Originally Posted by CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) paragraph 424
Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.

Ha, I’ve just won this debate by your own quote. It says it plain and clear from one of your own books. It was the faith of Peter, not Peter himself.
 
SoonerServant said:
Originally Posted by CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) paragraph 424
Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.

Ha, I’ve just won this debate by your own quote. It says it plain and clear from one of your own books. It was the faith of Peter, not Peter himself.
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You have won anything…
You just have a MISUNDERSTANDING on what Catholicism really teaches.

Please read the CCC!

Thanks and God Bless
 
I’ve always wondered- what do Protestants believe happened to Apostolic authority? Protestants and Catholics can agree that the Apostles had authority to dictate Church practice and discipline (Acts 15, 1 Cor 5) as well as promote true doctrine and repudiate falsehood. It is true, we have their writings as Sacred Scripture (btw, who had the authority to decide which wiritings were Scripture and which weren’t?), but is it that their authority passes from a living person to ink and paper? If Christians disagree on what Scripture teaches, or a false teacher uses Scripture to teach falsehood, who is the ultimate arbiter? The Scriptures are God’s Word and teach eternal truths, but modern man faces challenges undreamed of by the Sacred writers, and those truths must be reapplied to today’s problems: abortion, embryonic research, just and unjust wars, contraception, stem cell research, etc.
 
But if this is what it says, and this is not what it means, then there must be some inconsistencies in this “CCC” OR, perhaps you have been mislead by your own lack of understanding of the scriptures.
 
By the way Mommy02green, this is not a matter of what Catholicism teaches, it’s a matter of what the bible teaches. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t quote from these man written books which hold no authority to the bible. Also, just a little advice, I wouldn’t quote statements from them that diminish the integrity of your case either.
 
SoonerServant,

I have a question for you: Which church assembled the New Testament?
 
SoonerServant said:
By the way Mommy02green, this is not a matter of what Catholicism teaches, it’s a matter of what the bible teaches. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t quote from these man written books which hold no authority to the bible. Also, just a little advice, I wouldn’t quote statements from them that diminish the integrity of your case either.
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Some people believe that the Catholic Church is based on man-made doctrine.

However if they really knew Catholicism the would see that Catholicism teaches what the Bible teaches.

Cathoicism teachings = Bible teachings

It is your opinion that the quotes diminish the integrity of the the case.
However, is that the truth? In my opinion NO.

Everything, including the Bible has to be taken in context. If people can understand the context, then they can understand the truth. To understand the context, one has to read the whole thing for themselves.

That is why I suggested you read the CCC.

God Bless!
 
SoonerServant said:
But if this is what it says, and this is not what it means, then there must be some inconsistencies in this “CCC” OR, perhaps you have been mislead by your own lack of understanding of the scriptures.
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How do you understand scripture?
What guide lines do you use to see the “truth”?
 
Then tell me how the statement I bolded didn’t prove me right. It says the faith that “St.” Peter confessed is what Jesus built the church on. Yet, Catholicism teaches that the church was founded on Peter himself. I don’t need to read a book written by men to see what it says. It’s pretty clear.
 
SoonerServant said:
I think yo umay have missunderstood the scripture. Jesus didn’t say He would build the church on Peter, but on Peter’s belief.
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Protestant scholar D.A. Carson (among others) has acknowledged that Jesus was referring specifically to Peter as “the rock”.

This point is really no longer in dispute among knowledgeable Christians.
 
Apparently it is, because you haven’t aswered my question. Does the text that Mommy quoted say Peter or faith confessed by Peter.
 
SoonerServant said:
Mommy almost got it right. Lemme show you. Your faith comes through belief. Your belief is affirmed when you confess. The confession of Peter that Jesus is the Messiah of the one true God, is a true confession. It’s this that Jesus says he will build his church on. Not Peter, but the truth. Think about it. If Jesus wasn’t really the Messiah, then that means he’s a liar and God’s a liar. The entire foundation of christianity would fall through. He also says,"…and on thisrock I will build my church,…" Why didn’t he say on Peter? He was talking to Peter when he made the statement.
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Why didn’t he say, “and on Peter I will build my church”? Is this what you are asking?
 
All you have to write is Peter or faith confessed by Peter. I don’t want to hear about D.A. Carson or the CCC or any other Catholic doctrine. Just tell me what the text, from your book, says.
 
No, that’s not what I was saying. Instead of," and on this rock I will build my church" Why didn’t he say" and on you I will build my church."
 
SoonerServant said:
Apparently it is, because you haven’t aswered my question. Does the text that Mommy quoted say Peter or faith confessed by Peter.
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Just as Protestants often quote a single scripture out of context to “prove” a false doctrine, so you take a single statement clipped from the Catechism to bolster your erroneous argument.

Perhaps you have not read far enough in the Catechism for it also says:

**881 **The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. “The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.” This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

It is always “either/or” with anti-Catholics, but reality is often “both/and”. It is not either the faith of Peter or Peter himself. Rather, the Papacy is founded upon both the faith of Peter and the leadership role that Peter held within the Church.

Read paragraph 881 one more time just to let that settle deeply into your soul.
 
I’m sorry, but you have done exactly what I ask you not to. As a christian, I haven’t added a hundred more books to the bible. So if you please, lets stop quoting from them. We have an even playing field with the bible alone.
 
SoonerServant said:
By the way Mommy02green, this is not a matter of what Catholicism teaches, it’s a matter of what the bible teaches. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t quote from these man written books which hold no authority to the bible. Also, just a little advice, I wouldn’t quote statements from them that diminish the integrity of your case either.
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Then keep reading the darn scipture passage you are quoting. What does Christ mean when he gives Peter the “keys to the Kingdom” and tells him that what he binds on earth will be bound in heaven?

Sounds like Christ just gave Peter a lot of authority in the Church he was going to found.
 
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