Catholicism---Man Made---Not in the bible

[ConstantineTG]

What is really amazing is how the Church survived even through several bad Popes during the Middle Ages! If it were simply a human organization it should have gone “belly up” centuries ago.

But there are many pagan faiths that have existed prior to Christianity that are still around today. I don’t think this is a sound argument lest you want to legitimize them with this argument. Take Buddhism for example, which has existed since 500BC.

 

[Farsight001]

But there are many pagan faiths that have existed prior to Christianity that are still around today. I don’t think this is a sound argument lest you want to legitimize them with this argument. Take Buddhism for example, which has existed since 500BC.

Buddhism isn’t pagan.

 

[sedonaman]

Originally Asserted by a Non-Catholic:
Any church arrogant enough to claim infallibility is elevating it’s self above God and is blasphemy!

If that is true, then what do we have to rely on? The Bible? But that has to be interpreted, using his conscience. Does the non-Catholic making the statement above think his conscience is infallible? Sounds like it; therefore, he is guilty of his own charge.

 

[mab23]

The Catholic Church is far more Biblical than Lutheranism. I can assure you of that. The Catholic Church is thoroughly Biblical, 100% so.

amen!

 

[bzkoss236]

But there are many pagan faiths that have existed prior to Christianity that are still around today. I don’t think this is a sound argument lest you want to legitimize them with this argument. Take Buddhism for example, which has existed since 500BC.

He’s really only referring to Catholic theology, and that wouldn’t legitimize Buddhism because like with Protestant Christianity, there are many types of Buddhism, and not all believe some the same core theology. He was saying how amazing it is that Catholic theology has essentially remained the same (though more deeply defined) in spite of a few bad popes.

 

[pangaious]

A good book that answers all of your questions is Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie

 

[maltmom]

A good book that answers all of your questions is Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie

My favorite conversion book.

 

[horselvr]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangaious
A good book that answers all of your questions is Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie

Maltmom:
“My favorite conversion book.”

Really maltmom—I must get this one too. Thanks and thanks to you too panaious.

 

[maltmom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangaious
A good book that answers all of your questions is Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie

Maltmom:
“My favorite conversion book.”

Really maltmom—I must get this one too. Thanks and thanks to you too panaious.

Another good one is Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Brany Pitre

 

[horselvr]

Thanks maltmom I’ll get it and let you know when I start reading it.

 

[maltmom]

Thanks maltmom I’ll get it and let you know when I start reading it.

You’re welcome! It’s a wonderful book. It can reach the hearts of those who don’t believe in the Real Presence and those of us who do.

 

[po18guy]

Back to the thread title: Ask her to show you, from the bible alone, that the Christian faith is intended to use the bible alone. If that is the case, why did Jesus leave nothing written, and send only Apostles with orally preached Gospel? Luke’s prologue (Luke 1:1-4) confirms the Apostolic Tradition.

We know that “All scripture is God-breathed” (2 Timothy 3:16), and that the scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35). Of course, or why use it at all?

But, Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 8:3 when He said that man lives on every word that issues form the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4)

The bible tells us in many places that it does not have every word of God. (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40, 1 Corinthians 11:34, Ephesians 6:21, Colossians 4:7 and many others)

Now what?

Does she understand that the bible, being handed on to us as it is, is also a tradition? Does she know that no less than Saint Paul admonished Christians to hold to both oral and written Traditions (2 Thessalonians 2:14)? Ask her where her community’s oral traditions are.

Just as Saint Paul’s suffering filled up any lack of suffering in Christ’s Body, (Colossians 1:24), so also does the Apostolic Tradition fill up what is lacking in scripture. You either follow both Apostolic Tradition and scripture, as with all “bible” communities, you end up making things up and stumbling along in darkness at least part of the time. Did Jesus really leave us orphans? He said that He would not (John 14:18).

To show that a worldly spirit is driving the argument which she has learned, ask her what she thinks about the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Probably no comment from her. Everything she objects to in the Catholic Church is also present in the Orthodox Churches (which have 300 million members). Quite odd, no?

 

[horselvr]

po18guy:

You’re just too good. You have actually hit home on several points which I plan on talking with her about.

I really am generally not this weak when talking with a Catholic with protestants leanings because quite frankly, they irritate me, The questions they attack with and the attitude of just refusing to believe truths just send me up a wall. But yet she will call herself a Catholic and I good one at that. So, convinced she is going straight to heaven and can’t believe I don’t feel the same about myself. I get the feeling that she might be into this OSAS that some believe.
Where else would she get this notion and then to voice—show me where THAT’s in the bible.
She really took me back, I was quite dumbfounded actually. She speaks as some protestants do.

"The bible tells us in many places that it does not have every word of God. (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40, 1 Corinthians 11:34, Ephesians 6:21, Colossians 4:7 and many others) Now what??

Exactly. Now what? I really want her to answer that one for me.

Anyway, I find what you have posted to be spot on and will definately be voiced when I speak with her.

She is so sure that I would never find any verses on contraception/birth control but there seems to be 28 or so.

She told me that when she dies she will have her ashes split amongst her children and when I said as a Catholic you aren’t suppose to do that she then said—you guessed it----Where is THAT in the bible. OHY!

Thank you so much for taking the time to “load me up for bear” I have to spend some time gathering all this information to give to her. Somewhere along the way she is being mis-guided but very smug about what she now believes and I’d like to at least give her enough truth to make her think. I just love how the very book she is using to brow me with is exactly the book that will prove her beliefs wrong.

PS. Good point. I never thought to bring up the Eastern Orthodox Churches too. Thanks again

I love her dearly and don’t mean to be so sharp about this but she’s taking a detour.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

When any Protestant brings up the scriptures being “God breathed” agree with them–we as Catholics believe that!

We also believe that Jesus who is God–BREATHED on the disciples and gave them the power to forgive and RETAIN sins.

Then ask them who at their church can forgive and RETAIN sins.

 

[Church_Militant]

John Martignoni has a great statement in his 2-Minute Apologetics that will be helpful.

A few more basics about apologetics before we move into specific apologetics topics: #1) Ingrain this into your psyche…the Bible is a Catholic book! The Catholic Church gave it to the world! Which means that there is nothing…nothing!…in the Bible that is contrary to anything in the Catholic Faith and there is nothing in the Catholic Faith contrary to anything in the Bible! Always remember that!

This is important to keep in mind because a lot of times folks will quote a passage from the Bible that “proves” the Catholic Church is wrong. Whenever someone quotes you a Bible verse that “proves” the Catholic Church is wrong on something, your response should be, “Amen, I believe what the Bible says! As a Catholic, I believe everything the Bible says! However, I don’t agree with your personal interpretation of that passage.” The reason you don’t agree with their personal interpretation is because 100% of the time that you are presented with a verse that “proves” the Church wrong, either: a) the verse has been taken out of context, or b) the verse simply doesn’t say what they are trying to make it say.

#2) And this flows right from #1, the Catholic Church can be defended solely from the Bible better than any other Christian faith tradition can be. There is actually a good bit in the various Protestant faith traditions that does indeed contradict the Bible. So, do not be afraid to engage non-Catholics in a discussion of the Bible.

#3) If you are ever asked a question about your Faith that you cannot answer, don’t worry. There is an answer, you just need to go and find it. Simply respond, “I don’t know, but I will find out and get back to you.” Then find out and get back to them.

As Catholics, we need to reclaim the Bible. It is our book. We need to read it, pray it, learn it, and use it to bring our separated brothers and sisters back to the Church. If you keep these things in mind, you have started down the road to being a very effective apologist for the Catholic Faith.

 

[horselvr]

Thank you so much Church Militant.
Definately words to live by. I did have to explain that the bible is a Catholic book. She did not know that.

It was when she said that she doesn’t believe in infallibility of the Pope that I realized how off the path she has gone.

I like reading John Martignoni and I have to tell you that your blog is informative too. Thanks so much. I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Bible is man made.

 

[po18guy]

I believe that your cousin is correct…that many of the rules and rituals and layout of the religion were created by popes and bishops and don’t have an origin in the christian canon of scripture put together in the 4th Century–you can’t often find the words specifically laying out a lot of these rules.

If you are Catholic, from what I understand, you are supposed to believe and trust that the popes/bishops were “channeling” what God wanted.

Many people like your cousin, though, do not trust or believe this.

Is the first Church council decision in Acts 15 man made?

By definition, all of protestantism - all of it - rejects the Church that Christ founded. Thus, they have the foundation of, not the bible, but of individual egos in privately interpreting the bible. The sad fact is that nothing in the bible is a matter of private interpretation - that is for the Church to do - as Saint Paul shows by consulting with them.

If the devil had a better plan to destroy the unity of the Body of Christ, he would long ago have used it.

 

[Holly3278]

and you have been a Lutheran for the past 20 years to know that Catholicism is more Biblical than Lutheranism.Or are you blindly quoting own believe… which is fair enough but… Its amazing how suddenly know when its actually all Christian anyway and we need to be striving for unity rather than division or disunity and haven’t actually presented any evidence in your post that the Catholic Church is more Biblical than the Lutheran Church by comparing and contrasting the two in sound discussion…

I know this because I have studied the Biblical evidence for Catholicism. The Biblical evidence supports Catholic doctrines and only some Lutheran doctrines.

 

[bzkoss236]

Yes…as I said…the Church interpreted the words in the bible and then figured out many of the rules, etc. So the OP won’t find, for example, a specific line from the books in the canon that quotes Jesus as saying “women cannot be priests” or “gay people should not get married”…it is non-private interpretation by the church that made these rules a reality in the church.
Yes?

Actually, many of the rules, such as those you’ve stated, were in place before the bible was put together. In fact, the two you’ve stated go back to before Christianity, in Judaism. Jewish priests could only be men, and gay people were not allowed to be married.