Catholicism verses Islam differences and similarities

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:rolleyes:
Basically they use the koran to fit their needs. Somewhere I read an article on that - but I can’t find it right now. When they want to wage jihad - they use the newer, violent verses that did indeed abrogate the older verses. But, those older verses have so many newer verses that refuting them is easy. Notice they use the same ones over and over again.

The only thing I can say is that their own koran and hadiths refute what they say about islam. Their own history (well, not their version of ‘turnspeak’) refutes what they say about islam. And that history is being written to this day - and it ain’t pretty.

They are waging jihad in our lands - it is called a stealth jiihad. Infiltrating, building up their numbers and doing things like what they do on this site - only to our young. I have written about this on other blogs which shows how the MSA (muslims student association) which they infiltrated our colleges with is directly associated with the muslim brotherhood and it is called ‘The Project’. Those papers of the muslim brotherhoods are for us to view now and to see how they are infiltrating our schools and states their goals very clearly.

here are the websites:
**Here is information on the Muslim Brotherhood’s ‘The Project’ - an article about how/when this information was found:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={67736123-6864-4205-B51E-BCBDEF45FCDE}

Here is part two of the article which has “The Project”'s document in full:
frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=61829F93-7A81-4654-A2E8-F0A5E6DD3DC4**

Here is a video about the Muslim Brotherhood: youtube.com/watch?v=tx0lqVZOnHw&feature=related

And here is an article to show the tie between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Muslim Student Association:
studentsforacademicfreedom.org/news/2598/the-muslim-students-association-and-the-jihad-network
You are so full of 100% hatred/derision of a great very demanding FAITH. Almost like a loser called Hitler, who decided to carry out his far fetched ideas, in The Holocaust beginning in 1942, according to a new documented book, by Catholic Pat Buchanan.
One should never ever bash an entire group or faith. Can be Crimimnally wrong to. And is Opposite of American and Catholic Church policy and teaching.
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                                                                                                                                                                                          Are you not aware that True  Islam  (Not political use thereof, by polititiscians like  Bin Laden)  condemns terrororists as Most Evil, First to hell, if kill Civilians?     Islam   has central tenet:  If one Innocent (Like civilians)  is killed, Everyone on earth  Dies with that one. Kinda stronger   than Thou  Shalt  Not Kill.
Have not heard, thought that there are, were ‘no’ “religious wars”? Only wars begun by Leaders for political, personal reasons for their Own Purposes, who USE relligion as the Means to get ‘everyone’ in Fighting mood. Sen George Mitchell, Very Catholic, so explained his stopping the “Irish Rebellion” a few Years ago. It was fight between Groups, for control, rights. Protestant/Catholic were the Names of hatred/enemy Used.
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                                                                                           There    is a  Major historic new Book out,  Documenting   modern  'tribal wars', especially  what causes, feeds them:                                                                                       *Us and Them* / David Berreby / Little, Brown  and Company / 2005      **  (Heavily Documented  and respected common sense)
Vivat Jesus, not self Tony
PS: “Judge ye not, lest ye be judged in the same eye”
“Take the board out of thine eye, before you remove the spoil from the other (person’s) eye”
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                                                                                                                                                                                          Know what JIHAD means, is?  Opposite of  coming  here to kill Americans, as some politicos 'teach' falselly.  Jihad is  cleansing, purifying one's own mind, to live with God/Allah:                           Jihad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
It would be better to help the person revert to Islam and find peace for his/her soul…

I will post some excellant islamic sites with lots of info fr him/her which you can pass on…

All you will get here is a list of anti-islam propaganda sites
If a Christian converts to Islam, he or she would be guilty of major apostasy. Why convert and risk peace of ego for eternal damnation?
 
Can you tell me of a verse in the Quran that is specific in calling for Muslims being peacefull to a non-Muslim?
Please see :

[60:7] It may be that Allah will bring about love between you and those of them with whom you are now at enmity, and Allah is All-Powerful; and Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

[60:8] Allah forbids you not respecting those who have not fought against you on account of your religion, and who have not driven you out from your homes, that you be kind to them and deal equitably with them; surely, Allah loves those who are equitable.

[60:9] Allah only forbids you respecting those who have fought against you on account of your religion and have driven you out of your homes, and have helped others in driving you out, that you make friends with them, and whosoever makes friends with them - it is these that are transgressors.

The verse 60:8 above is telling clearly that Allah does not forbid the believers to deal well with those who do not fight the Muslims on account of their religion.

That applies to all religions. If some one does not fight the people of any religion then he/she should not be troubled or beaten or killed.
 
The verse 60:8 above is telling clearly that Allah does not forbid the believers to deal well with those who do not fight the Muslims on account of their religion…
Allah does not forbid but he also does not approve of it, and it is contingent upon the Muslim’s perception of an offense taken on account of their religion.

This verse:
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimoon (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #193)

suggests Muslims fight until either the non-Muslims accept Islam or submit to being dominated by Islam.

This verse:
Jihad (holy fighting in Allahs Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #216)

suggests Muslims must fight for allahs cause and that is so that there is no dis-belief.

This verse:
And fight in the Way of Allah and know that Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #244)

says the same as the others; to fight in the way of allah.

This verse:
You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Maroof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah. And had the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqoon (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allahs Command).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #110)

suggests non-Muslims are less in the sight of God and Muslims.

Do you have other verses that suggest the non-Muslim is to be unmolested or not fought?
 
:rolleyes:

You are so full of 100% hatred/derision of a great very demanding FAITH. Almost like a loser called Hitler, who decided to carry out his far fetched ideas, in The Holocaust beginning in 1942, according to a new documented book, by Catholic Pat Buchanan.
One should never ever bash an entire group or faith. Can be Crimimnally wrong to. And is Opposite of American and Catholic Church policy and teaching.
Code:
                                                                                                                                                                                          Are you not aware that True  Islam  (Not political use thereof, by polititiscians like  Bin Laden)  condemns terrororists as Most Evil, First to hell, if kill Civilians?     Islam   has central tenet:  If one Innocent (Like civilians)  is killed, Everyone on earth  Dies with that one. Kinda stronger   than Thou  Shalt  Not Kill.
Have not heard, thought that there are, were ‘no’ “religious wars”? Only wars begun by Leaders for political, personal reasons for their Own Purposes, who USE relligion as the Means to get ‘everyone’ in Fighting mood. Sen George Mitchell, Very Catholic, so explained his stopping the “Irish Rebellion” a few Years ago. It was fight between Groups, for control, rights. Protestant/Catholic were the Names of hatred/enemy Used.
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                                                                                           There    is a  Major historic new Book out,  Documenting   modern  'tribal wars', especially  what causes, feeds them:                                                                                       *Us and Them* / David Berreby / Little, Brown  and Company / 2005      **
(Heavily Documented and respected common sense)

Vivat Jesus, not self Tony
PS: “Judge ye not, lest ye be judged in the same eye”
“Take the board out of thine eye, before you remove the spoil from the other (person’s) eye”
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                                                                                                                                                                                          Know what JIHAD means, is?  Opposite of  coming  here to kill Americans, as some politicos 'teach' falselly.  Jihad is  cleansing, purifying one's own mind, to live with God/Allah:                           Jihad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now that you mention Hitler - this current movement that the muslim brotherhood is a part of was started Al-Bannain who was good buddies with Hitler - they both had a common hatred for the Jews.

Here is an excerpt from an article about this
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4066f0b8-c173-4a7c-b43c-99988ec9f154
:
**As revealed in documents seized by the FBI and entered as evidence in a Texas court, the Muslim Students Association is a legacy project of the Muslim Brotherhood.[1] The Brotherhood is an organization formed by a Hitler-admiring Muslim named Hasan al-Bannain Egypt in 1928.[2] It was designed to function as the spearpoint of the Islamo-fascist movement and its crusade against the West.

The Brotherhood spawned al-Qaeda and Hamas.[3] Its doctrines make up the core of the terrorist jihad conducted by organizations such as Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Hamas and the government of Iran.[4] Its agendas have been clear since its creation: infiltration, subversion and global terror with world conquest as the goal.

…To establish one Islamic state of united Islamic countries, one nation under one leadership whose mission will be to reinforce adherence to the law of Allah…and the strengthening of the Islamic presence in the world arena…The goal…is the establishment of a world Islamic state.[5]

The first target was the “near enemy” – the Arab states that al-Banna and his followers felt had betrayed Islam. The United States – the “far enemy” – would not become a specific focus of the Brotherhood until many years later.

The organization’s aspirations for world dominion seemed like a fantasy until the Iranian revolution of 1979. But that event showed the jihadists that they could conquer and govern a state and use it as a base for Islamic revolution elsewhere. There was no doubt who the enemy was. The Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeni coined the phrase “Great Satan” and “Little Satan” to demonize the United States and Israel and mark them for destruction.

**”

One thing that I do is only use the koran and the facts to prove that you are wrong. How come you use a Wikipedia definition of jihad? Can’t use the one straight from the koran itself because it might jeopardise your point?

Sura 47:4: When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her

Here is a good website on the meaning of jihad - discussed in length.
faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/jihad.htm

**And now the threats, intimidation and basic bullying tactics to not talk about the koran, or the facts. **

This is another jihadi tactic, besides da’wa, that is used because so often muslims cannot argue their own peacefulness to non-muslims who know the koran and know their history, etc.
 
Allah does not forbid but he also does not approve of it, and it is contingent upon the Muslim’s perception of an offense taken on account of their religion.

This verse:
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimoon (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #193)

suggests Muslims fight until either the non-Muslims accept Islam or submit to being dominated by Islam.

This verse:
Jihad (holy fighting in Allahs Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #216)

suggests Muslims must fight for allahs cause and that is so that there is no dis-belief.

This verse:
And fight in the Way of Allah and know that Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #244)

says the same as the others; to fight in the way of allah.

This verse:
You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Maroof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah.

And had the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqoon (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allahs Command).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #110)

suggests non-Muslims are less in the sight of God and Muslims.

Do you have other verses that suggest the non-Muslim is to be unmolested or not fought?
Please read Chapter 3 Verse 110 Correctly. It shows full respect for Christians and Jews, only adding that they view religions as we do, Our Faith is for the better. Nowhere does it say molest or fight us, which is a tribal political misreading of Islam again.
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                                                                                            And the second half of the sentence is right on  also  Most in  Our beautiful ideal Faith  do not  live it very much.  Are too busy living own ideas.  As  our Faith and Bible teach, any  Mortal Sin   Removes one from God.    Is that not what that Muslim  verse   also says, with Their name for God?
 
Who is called the “sons of apes and pigs” in the Qur’an? Or are you making something up to smear Islam? (I’ll assume it’s an honest mistake on your part.) Of course nobody is called that in the Qur’an.
**[5.59] Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?

[5.60] Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.**

i am not sure who is being called apes and swine here. please explain.

i think most of us are trying really hard to discern if the quran is being misinterpreted for political power or not. i know i have cringed myself hearing some of the things Christian fundamentalists have preached and i get upset at how the message of love gets distorted. the Bible can be hard to understand, but when a Catholic comes to a passage that does not appear to be a message of love, we can go to the Church for guidance as to it’s interpretation.

please explain the peaceful message to be found in quran here:
**
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!**

what do you do if one muslim takes a different meaning out of quran than another muslim? who has final say as to what is the correct meaning?

i also want to say that words can not express how awesome it is that people of varying faiths from all over the world can have this discussion! we should pray for those that live in fear and can not express their questions. God gave us brains to explore ideas and hearts to know to always love the individual no matter how wrong you think they are.

Peace be unto all of us.
Jen
 
Please read Chapter 3 Verse 110 Correctly. It shows full respect for Christians and Jews, only adding that they view religions as we do, Our Faith is for the better. Nowhere does it say molest or fight us, which is a tribal political misreading of Islam again.
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                                                                                            And the second half of the sentence is right on  also  Most in  Our beautiful ideal Faith  do not  live it very much.  Are too busy living own ideas.  As  our Faith and Bible teach, any  Mortal Sin   Removes one from God.    Is that not what that Muslim  verse   also says, with Their name for God?
“And had the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them;” is full respect? Denial of the resurrection and error of the Trinity is full respect?

No, I don’t see that from the Muslim verses. I see a bigoted religion that denies my faith explictly and has disdain for all non-Muslims. I have tried to look for tolerance in Islam and the Quuran. It is a myth.
 
The Hitler/Nazi ties to islam and this current movement with the muslim brotherhood, which also includes the muslim student associaion, is described more in these websites. They have been posted previously and discussed on a different thread, but here they are again since I notice some new names on this thread:

Islam and Nazi ties:tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html
 
“And had the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them;” is full respect? Denial of the resurrection and error of the Trinity is full respect?

No, I don’t see that from the Muslim verses. I see a bigoted religion that denies my faith explictly and has disdain for all non-Muslims. I have tried to look for tolerance in Islam and the Quuran. It is a myth.
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                                                                                           I don't have all day to   Refute, Correct TOS  all hatred defamation of another Great Faith, Which Faith respects us fully (Except what we initiated in the political Great Crusades, which were not by the Vatican.  Pls research what the  Hate spinners of the time caused > the killing of Every Jerusalem Woman, Man and child not Catholic.     That is where  Crusades  got the bad name,  along with the Sacking of Constantinople, which was asked for by That  Crusade  financial, spin  sponsors, the Bankers of  Venice


                                                                                                                                                                                          I  don't have time for Lot more Negativisisms,  brother.
     What does Their view of the Cricifixtion and the  Trinity  have  to do with your  'Islam is all evil, all killers'  (Is Court  Actionable Defamations, which Catholic Church  Officcials consider the Greatest Sin > Defaming a good person, or good group.                                                                                      Islam   believes in the Virgin  Birth of Our Lord,   Considers him  a Greatest  Prophet, as Allah was in their eyes.         They  highly respect all our Apotles and Holy Family.                                   
                                                                                           GTR.  Brother/Sister, Learn  Catholic Attitude  of our Lord and  His Church:  Always respect, teach Truth, Never Hate.  Which is Fundamnental   Islamic teaching also.  Arab, Muslim welcome of (Peaceful)  visitors   has been wold famous. Has been Their lifestyle, essence.
 
I feel the same way sometimes.

Who is called the “sons of apes and pigs” in the Qur’an? Or are you making something up to smear Islam? (I’ll assume it’s an honest mistake on your part.) Of course nobody is called that in the Qur’an.

The Qur’an of course is for all of mankind, and it is addressed to all of mankind… the very first command in the Qur’an is this:

2:21 O mankind! worship your Lord, Who hath created you and those before you, so that ye may ward off (evil).
How about this? Maybe not the exact words…
When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: “Be ye apes, despised and rejected.” -Surah 7:166 (Yususf Ali)

Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path! -Surah 5:60 (Yusuf Ali)

And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: “Be ye apes, despised and rejected.” -Surah 2:65 (Yusuf Ali)

Vickie
 
  • I don’t have all day to Refute, Correct TOS all hatred defamation of another Great Faith, Which Faith respects us fully (Except what we initiated in the political Great Crusades, which were not by the Vatican. Pls research what the Hate spinners of the time caused > the killing of Every Jerusalem Woman, Man and child not Catholic. That is where Crusades got the bad name, along with the Sacking of Constantinople, which was asked for by That Crusade financial, spin sponsors, the Bankers of Venice
  • I don’t have time for Lot more Negativisisms, brother.
    What does Their view of the Cricifixtion and the Trinity have to do with your ‘Islam is all evil, all killers’ (Is Court Actionable Defamations, which Catholic Church Officcials consider the Greatest Sin > Defaming a good person, or good group. Islam believes in the Virgin Birth of Our Lord, Considers him a Greatest Prophet, as Allah was in their eyes. They highly respect all our Apotles and Holy Family.
  • GTR. Brother/Sister, Learn Catholic Attitude of our Lord and His Church: Always respect, teach Truth, Never Hate. Which is Fundamnental Islamic teaching also. Arab, Muslim welcome of (Peaceful) visitors has been wold famous. Has been Their lifestyle, essence.
What you’re stating is basically to deny freedom of speech!

Vickie
 
:eek:
“And had the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them;” is full respect? Denial of the resurrection and error of the Trinity is full respect?

No, I don’t see that from the Muslim verses. I see a bigoted religion that denies my faith explictly and has disdain for all non-Muslims. I have tried to look for tolerance in Islam and the Quuran. It is a myth.
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                                                                                           Ever heard of   seeing  is in the eye of the beholder  ??  ;)
, Brother, when one sees all evil, all killers, in another group, may be time to See the Lord, After Confession of Mortal sin Slander, Defamation of Another Faith. The Eucharist, worthily received is Great to get to Peace of the Lord, And with other groups/faiths.
Please also read Catechism 844 and LG 16, and the cited therein Romans 1: 21, 25
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                                                                                           It appears you  are  same type victim  of the same TYPE viewpoints  you type, as was done  'why the Catholic Church is so Bad" > the  false spins about it, opposite of the Truth:     Archbishop  Sheen, 1960's  famously
 
Islam’s Global War Against Christians

From Nigeria to Indonesia, Christians are under siege in virtually every single country in the Muslim world, the victims of countless acts of discrimination, depredation, brutality, and murder that are so widespread and systematic that it can rightfully be called the new Holocaust. This time, however, the perpetrators of this Holocaust aren’t wearing swastikas, but kufi skull caps and hijabs…

The Fallacy of shared values between Islam and Christianity


Nothing in Common

By their fruits you shall know them

Vickie
 
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                                                                                           I don't have all day to   Refute, Correct TOS  all hatred defamation of another Great Faith, Which Faith respects us fully (Except what we initiated in the political Great Crusades, which were not by the Vatican.  Pls research what the  Hate spinners of the time caused > the killing of Every Jerusalem Woman, Man and child not Catholic.     That is where  Crusades  got the bad name,  along with the Sacking of Constantinople, which was asked for by That  Crusade  financial, spin  sponsors, the Bankers of  Venice


                                                                                                                                                                                          I  don't have time for Lot more Negativisisms,  brother.
     What does Their view of the Cricifixtion and the  Trinity  have  to do with your  'Islam is all evil, all killers'  (Is Court  Actionable Defamations, which Catholic Church  Officcials consider the Greatest Sin > Defaming a good person, or good group.                                                                                      Islam   believes in the Virgin  Birth of Our Lord,   Considers him  a Greatest  Prophet, as Allah was in their eyes.         They  highly respect all our Apotles and Holy Family.                                   
                                                                                           GTR.  Brother/Sister, Learn  Catholic Attitude  of our Lord and  His Church:  Always respect, teach Truth, Never Hate.  Which is Fundamnental   Islamic teaching also.  Arab, Muslim welcome of (Peaceful)  visitors   has been wold famous. Has been Their lifestyle, essence.
You bring up stuff that happened centuries ago. While muslims have slaughtered, and continue to slaughter, Christians and others of other faiths to this very day. In the 20th century - the Armenians, Christian in the Sudan, the Jews in Israel, Buddhists in Southeast Asia, Hindus in Pakistan/Kashmir/India, etc. You bring up what you are accusing us of bringing up and blaming all for the actions of others. And look at the riots over cartoons - basically muslims have blamed innocents and have killed innocents - over a cartoon, and also a 15 minute movie that only shows what the koran says and the actions of what some muslims do.

Here is ‘the muslim game’ about the crusades:
*Muslims love talking about the Crusades… and Christians love apologizing for them. To hear both parties tell the story, one would believe that Muslims were just peacefully minding their own business in lands that were legitimately Muslim, when Christian armies decided to wage holy war and "kill millions.”

The Truth:

Every part of this myth is a lie. By the rules that Muslims claim for themselves, the Crusades were perfectly justified, and the excesses (though beneath Christian standards) pale in comparison with the historical treatment of conquered populations at the hands of Muslims.

Here are some quick facts…

The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.

By the time the Crusades finally began, Muslim armies had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world.

Europe had been harassed by Muslims since the first few years following Muhammad’s death. As early as 652, Muhammad’s followers launched raids on the island of Sicily, waging a full-scale occupation 200 years later that lasted almost a century and was punctuated by massacres, such as that at the town of Castrogiovanni, in which 8,000 Christians were put to death. In 1084, ten years before the first crusade, Muslims staged another devastating Sicilian raid, burning churches in Reggio, enslaving monks and raping an abbey of nuns before carrying them into captivity.

In theory, the Crusades were provoked by the harassment of Christian pilgrims from Europe to the Holy Land, in which many were kidnapped, molested, forcibly converted to Islam or even killed. (Compare this to Islam’s justification for slaughter on the basis of Muslims being denied access to the Meccan pilgrimage in Muhammad’s time).

The Crusaders only invaded lands that were Christian. They never attacked Saudi Arabia or sacked Mecca as the Muslims had done (and continued doing) to Italy and Constantinople.

The period of Crusader “occupation” (of its own former land) was stretched over less than two centuries. The Muslim occupation is in its 1,372nd year.

The period of Crusader “aggression” compresses to about 20 years of actual military campaign, much of which was spent on organization and travel. (They were from 1098-1099, 1146-1148, 1188-1192, 1201-1204, 1218-1221, 1228-1229, and 1248-1250). By comparison, the Muslim Jihad against the island of Sicily alone lasted 75 grinding years.

Unlike Jihad, the Crusades were never justified on the basis of New Testament teachings. This is why they are an anomaly, the brief interruption of fourteen centuries of relentless Jihad against Christianity that began long before the Crusades and continued well after they were over.

The greatest crime of the Crusaders was the sacking of Jerusalem, in which 30,000 people were said to have been massacred. This number is dwarfed by the number of Jihad victims, from India to Constantinople and Narbonne, but Muslims have never apologized for their crimes and never will.

What is called ‘sin and excess’ by other religions, is what Islam refers to as the will of Allah.
 
*GTR. Brother/Sister, Learn Catholic Attitude of our Lord and His Church: Always respect, teach Truth, Never Hate. Which is Fundamnental Islamic teaching also. *

We are telling the truth. this is another difference between Catholicsm/Christians and islam - when we tell the truth we are called haters. We are just quoting your koran, your hadiths and looking at your mohammed and also your allah. And we know that, historically, we wouldn’t be allowed to do that in muslim lands under sharia law. We would be killed. Also, we are not threatening you as you have threatened us on this very thread.
 
You bring up stuff that happened centuries ago. While muslims have slaughtered, and continue to slaughter, Christians and others of other faiths to this very day. In the 20th century - the Armenians, Christian in the Sudan, the Jews in Israel, Buddhists in Southeast Asia, Hindus in Pakistan/Kashmir/India, etc. You bring up what you are accusing us of bringing up and blaming all for the actions of others. And look at the riots over cartoons - basically muslims have blamed innocents and have killed innocents - over a cartoon, and also a 15 minute movie that only shows what the koran says and the actions of what some muslims do.

Here is ‘the muslim game’ about the crusades:
*Muslims love talking about the Crusades… and Christians love apologizing for them. To hear both parties tell the story, one would believe that Muslims were just peacefully minding their own business in lands that were legitimately Muslim, when Christian armies decided to wage holy war and "kill millions.”

The Truth:

Every part of this myth is a lie. By the rules that Muslims claim for themselves, the Crusades were perfectly justified, and the excesses (though beneath Christian standards) pale in comparison with the historical treatment of conquered populations at the hands of Muslims.

Here are some quick facts…

The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.

By the time the Crusades finally began, Muslim armies had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world.

Europe had been harassed by Muslims since the first few years following Muhammad’s death. As early as 652, Muhammad’s followers launched raids on the island of Sicily, waging a full-scale occupation 200 years later that lasted almost a century and was punctuated by massacres, such as that at the town of Castrogiovanni, in which 8,000 Christians were put to death. In 1084, ten years before the first crusade, Muslims staged another devastating Sicilian raid, burning churches in Reggio, enslaving monks and raping an abbey of nuns before carrying them into captivity.

In theory, the Crusades were provoked by the harassment of Christian pilgrims from Europe to the Holy Land, in which many were kidnapped, molested, forcibly converted to Islam or even killed. (Compare this to Islam’s justification for slaughter on the basis of Muslims being denied access to the Meccan pilgrimage in Muhammad’s time).

The Crusaders only invaded lands that were Christian. They never attacked Saudi Arabia or sacked Mecca as the Muslims had done (and continued doing) to Italy and Constantinople.

The period of Crusader “occupation” (of its own former land) was stretched over less than two centuries. The Muslim occupation is in its 1,372nd year.

The period of Crusader “aggression” compresses to about 20 years of actual military campaign, much of which was spent on organization and travel. (They were from 1098-1099, 1146-1148, 1188-1192, 1201-1204, 1218-1221, 1228-1229, and 1248-1250). By comparison, the Muslim Jihad against the island of Sicily alone lasted 75 grinding years.

Unlike Jihad, the Crusades were never justified on the basis of New Testament teachings. This is why they are an anomaly, the brief interruption of fourteen centuries of relentless Jihad against Christianity that began long before the Crusades and continued well after they were over.

The greatest crime of the Crusaders was the sacking of Jerusalem, in which 30,000 people were said to have been massacred. This number is dwarfed by the number of Jihad victims, from India to Constantinople and Narbonne, but Muslims have never apologized for their crimes and never will.

What is called ‘sin and excess’ by other religions, is what Islam refers to as the will of Allah.
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                                                                                                                                                                                         ***  It is not Islam  which has, is doing Any of this. It is Indiviidiual False Spinners  With Own Agenda that Use Islam falselly, And  sometimes  Misuses the Qu'ran.

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                                                Islam is 82 Sects, all  having diffrerent leaders and  agendas.        And Individual Muslims I know  (A few)  have ideal attitudes of  Peacefull helping each other.                                                      

                                                                                                                                                                                 None of the Crusades were  By the Catholic Church.  Only First one was called for by the Vatican, to Recapture the Holy Land.    The Crusades were  For Proprty, Personal  glory, loot, everything   Except  the Church.     Catholic Name was USED, and Defamned the Church. Ditto terrorists, Bin Laden,   Even the late Saddam, who Used Islam opposite  of how it was intended.
 
:eek:

Ever heard of seeing is in the eye of the beholder ??
Yes, and I have heard let them who have eyes, see, and those who have ears to hear.
brother? If one sees all evil, all killers, in another group, may be timne to See the Lord, After Confession of Mortal sin Slander, Defamation of Another Faith. The Eucharist, worthily received is Great to get to Peace of the Lord, And with other groups/faiths.
 
Islam’s Global War Against Christians

From Nigeria to Indonesia, Christians are under siege in virtually every single country in the Muslim world, the victims of countless acts of discrimination, depredation, brutality, and murder that are so widespread and systematic that it can rightfully be called the new Holocaust. This time, however, the perpetrators of this Holocaust aren’t wearing swastikas, but kufi skull caps and hijabs…

The Fallacy of shared values between Islam and Christianity
Ever heard of Robert Fisk? ( independent.co.uk/news/fisk/ ) If you get a chance please read his book ‘The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of Middle East’. It gives you detailed evidence of who is suffering at whose hands. He is a British Christian journalist who spent his life (more than 31 years) covering the events in Middle East and is considered a single undisputed authority on Middle East. He gives you historic evidence about who is suffering and at whose hands.
 
Ever heard of Robert Fisk? ( independent.co.uk/news/fisk/ ) If you get a chance please read his book ‘The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of Middle East’. It gives you detailed evidence of who is suffering at whose hands. He is a British Christian journalist who spent his life (more than 31 years) covering the events in Middle East and is considered a single undisputed authority on Middle East. He gives you historic evidence about who is suffering and at whose hands.
When the British and the French occupied Israel and Lebanon after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in the late 1800’s, as well as Egypt, Mesopotamia and Persia…they wrote reports how the non-Muslim dhimmi were given an equality that was unknown to them for centuries since being occupied by Muslims. If you want to be honest and have a comprehensive view of Islam you must look at the first 1350 years and not just the last 60-100 years. The major difference is what the governments of the people in those countries say and do and not neccessarily the people.
 
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