Catholics Don't Understand Church History

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With all due respect, OP, exactly 0 people will take you seriously if you bust down the front door and come in blasting Rambo style. Take some time to lay out your concerns in an organized and easy to understand manner so we may address them. If you assume that being prideful and holier-than-thou will get you answers, and it doesn’t, you will leave this thread without your mind being changed, with only yourself to blame.
 
This forum is full of people with great senses of humour.
@graciew one of our greatest saints, she is a doctor of the Church, was very limited in education.
 
I wish I could agree with you on this point. But from my perspective as a former Protestant as well as the simple statistics of the percentages of Catholics leaving the church, I have to disagree. I see many Catholics (duped) into leaving the church for Protestant denominations because their Protestant counterparts know more history, and use that history out of context and wrongly to “disprove” Catholicism.
Unfortunately many Catholics do not know enough to defend their faith and often leave. A great example of this is the Mormon church. Their history is wrong, their interpretations are wrong, but because they can cite certain factual occurrences out of context they are able to convince Catholics who do not know anything on the subject.
 
It started a few years ago when I looked at the comments at the bottom of an internet article very critical of Pope Francis. These “conservative” Catholics were going on about how evil Martin Luther was. I pointed out that all the things in his 95 points have been eliminated by the Catholic Church (it was all about selling indulgences, after all). They viciously jumped on me and attacked me saying that is not true, when it is a simple fact if history.
The selling of indulgences, which was Luther’s primary complaint, was indeed reformed. However, I believe that Luther was not formally condemned for that, but for other comments he made in 95 Theses, as well as statements made outside of the 95 Theses. For example, Exsurge Domine (the first papal pull against Luther) condemns those who deny the efficacy of indulgences, but does not condemn complaints about the selling of them.

This page has a fairly useful analysis of the 95 Theses from a Catholic perspective, noting that Luther did get a lot right but was from a Catholic standpoint still in error on some things:
http://www.arcaneknowledge.org/catholic/wittenberg.htm
 
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Eusebius knew Church history, and there have been quite a few good Church historians from then till now.
 
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I am not going back
By the way you will be a Catholic for the rest of your life even if you walk away from the Church. There are no former Catholics. There are only two types of Catholic - those in a state of grace and those in a state of mortal sin.
I pray you will come to your senses and return home. Potentially spending the rest of your life in a state of mortal sin and maybe dying in that state does not have a good outcome.
 
You know, some of us mixed media artists would pay good money for that ephemera. 😉 It would be awesome to have telegram receipts in the background of my paintings.

@Cruciferi my spaces in our house look like that…even when I clean up, it never lasts long before a pile of books, papers, tidbits, watercolour sticks, and various art supplies form piles around my chair in the family room. Good thing my neat family appreciates–well, tolerates–my crazy creative ways 😂
 
My father-in-law was just as bad.
They remind me of the old Jay Leno comedy bit about his father having a receipt for a 20-year-old toilet seat and returning it to the store under warranty with the really old receipt.
 

I pointed out that all the things in his 95 points have been eliminated by the Catholic Church …
Actually no. Luther’s ninety-five theses included heresy. He stated that the pope could not use the treasury of merit to forgive temporal punishment of sin taught in the papal bull of Clement VI (Unigenitus Dei Filius, Jan. 25, 1343). Also he stated in the ninety-five theses that one could be certain that sins were forgiven by absolution. This is contrary to the necessity of contrition taught by the Catholic Church.

The Papal Bull Exsurge Domine June 15, 1520, included 41 articles:
“All and each of the above mentioned articles or errors, so to speak, as set before you, we condemn, disapprove, and entirely reject as respectively heretical, or scandalous, or false, or offensive to pious ears, or seductive of simple minds, and in opposition to Catholic truth.”
 
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So you are going to leave the Church our blessed Lord founded over a random internet comment section? I hope you realize how silly that is.
 
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Actually, they DID stop SELLING indulgences.
Some individuals, even highly placed individuals, did in fact try to sell indulgences. The Church, however, never authorized, or participated in, such sales, or such is my understanding from my study of history.
 
I have had so many conversations like that with Catholics I came to see that they really have no idea about the facts of their faith.
In 1927, an open letter was sent, via The Atlantic Monthly, to Al Smith asking him about his Catholic faith. (Smith was the governor of New York and he was the Democratic presidential candidate in 1928.) An encyclical from Leo XIII was mentioned, to which The governor asked “What the hell is an encyclical?”

Knowledge has never been a requirement for joining the Church. The first heresy in the Church was called gnosticism, because its adherents had to know a certain knowledge(Gk. Gnosis). For us, faith in Christ is foremost, and that faith can come in many different ways to different people. Some like to be informed of every encyclical and letter from the Pope. Others have more pressing concerns in their life. All are sustained by the presence of Christ and the Holy Spirit more than by their knowledge.
 
I have been struck by how little most laity and priests really know about church history or doctrine.
Me too.
I pointed out that all the things in his 95 points have been eliminated by the Catholic Church
Well, maybe not all 😀 but certainly most of them. I think if some (most?) of them were posted in a papal encyclical Catholics today would simply shrug and say “Yeah, sure!” But speaking of context, remember Martin Luther was coming out of an era of church history that included the Borgias and Julius II! Not exactly examplars of virtue.
I came to see that they really have no idea about the facts of their faith. Like my last parish priest in Salem, Oregon who openly stated in a church group that papal encyclicals are “too hard to read.”
I agree. Encyclicals may be “too hard to read” if you trying to read the original Latin, but in English they’re pretty straightforward, logical, and filled with common sense! And yet I suspect only a tiny fraction of Catholics read them.

As for “facts of the faith,” again, I agree. Most have a grade school understanding, and very few have read any religious or theological books at all. My favorite question to Catholics (which I am, by the way) is asking “Why do Western Christians make the sign of the cross left to right and Orthodox make it right to left?” Not a major issue certainly, but it shows they’ve never thought about it. [Which brings up a tangentially related story–on a recent trip to Greece we were visiting an Orthodox monastery, which of course was decorated floor to ceiling with frescos of Christ, the saints, Bible stories, etc. and another visitor–American…–asked the nun who was the guide “Are you Christian?” Absolutely clueless.]
I suggest those of you who still care work to change that.
What can I say? I try! Best wishes go with you.
 
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Encyclicals may be “too hard to read” if you trying to read the original Latin, but in English they’re pretty straightforward, logical, and filled with common sense! And yet I suspect only a tiny fraction of Catholics read them.
You and I think that, but when I attend Catholic Bible study and some older person there says they don’t understand some super-easy parable of Jesus that I learned at my mama’s knee and have heard explained from the pulpit about 50 times since, each time that gospel comes up in the cycle, it’s obvious some people are just not ready to tackle Papal encyclicals.

They could get to that point if they have interest, but a lot of them don’t. We just had a guy on another thread asking if it was okay for him to not pay attention to the Pope, not because he disagreed with the Pope’s teaching but apparently because he just wanted to focus on his local parish.
 
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The Catholic faith is for the simple as well as the learned. As St. Irenaeus says in “Against Heresies”:
For the faith being ever one and the same, neither does one who is able at great length to discourse regarding it, make any addition to it, nor does one, who can say but little diminish it.
Faith in Christ and a common profession of faith with the Church covers any innocent errors or points of ignorance, since the whole truth is contained in Christ and the Church’s faith. As the Catechism says, Christ “is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one” (CCC 65); “what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son” (CCC 65, quoting St. John of the Cross).

Pope Innocent IV explained it like this (Commentaria in quinque libros decretalia, Ad liber I):
There is a certain measure of faith to which all are obliged, and which is sufficient for the simple (simplicibus) and perhaps for all laymen—that is, every adult must believe that God exists and that He rewards all good people. He must also believe in the other articles of the Creed implicitly (implicite), that is, he must believe that whatever the Catholic Church believes is true…

Such is the power of implicit faith that there are those who say that if someone has it—that is, he believes in everything the Church believes—but his natural reason (ratione naturali) makes him hold the erroneous opinion that the Father is greater than the Son or precedes Him in time, or that the three persons are separate beings, he is neither a heretic nor a sinner, so long as he does not defend his error and so long as he believes that this is the faith of the Church. In that case, the faith of the Church replaces his opinion, since, though his opinion is false, it is not his faith, rather his faith is the faith of the Church.
Until very recently, papal encyclicals were only even addressed to bishops. And theologians were the only others who really read them. In the Catholic Church we are one body and help bear each other’s burdens. Not everyone is expected to be a walking encyclopedia or catechism. Different members have different gifts and roles.
 
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