Catholics for Muslims

[qwerk]

I dont say what you are posting is wrong as there are many varied interpretations of sharia law.

Could you quote me your source, at the mosque where i live everyone is encouraged to question everything.

peace and blessings

Maybe you should look into taqiyya. If they are encouraged to question everything then why don’t they question why they follow a guy who committed so many atrocities? The guy did those things after he thought up Islam, about 10-13 years after he started preaching and did not gain too many followers through the peaceful verses in the Quran. When he migrated to Medina and gained power that is when he gained the followers, many through intimidation, slavery, subjugation, and others who were willing to fight and get those slaves and also their belongings.

He was willing to say that Allah was a liar if it advanced Islam and that goes directly against what the Bible, New Testament, tells us (Titus 1:2 and Hebrews 6:17-18). There are so many other contradictions that it is a long list. Contradictions in the Quran itself, and also contradictions between the Bible and the Quran. In Sharia laws it is called abrogation, or supersession. Either way, the ones who discuss the Quran are supposed to know about it. The peaceful verses were superceded by the violent verses.

Most Muslims don’t read the Quran to study it or to question it, they read it to memorize it in Arabic. Most Muslims don’t know Arabic either.

 

[Steven_John]

Peace and blessings i appreciate your post it is much help to me.

Sharia laws are based on the Quran, Hadith and Sira the later two are combined and called the Sunnah, so it isn’t that varied. Mostly it depends on the guy in power and how lenient he is towards the hypocrites and unbelievers.

I would have thought sira to be narrations of Mohamed (pbuh) told by others so would be the same as hadiths.
Do you know of any written sira that pre dates the hadiths?
You are right in acknowledging that there is variation on Muslims understanding of what is true sharia and how those differences come about. I would suggest there are a lot more factors beyond how lenient those in power are toward non Muslims. The variations of Islamic understanding from those sources is wide. Other factors may include personal self interest and bias of culture and experience.

Quran 2:108 Rather you wish to put questions to your Messenger, as Musa was questioned
before; and whoever adopts unbelief instead of faith, he indeed has lost the
right direction of the way.

yes i was not suggesting Muslims here question what Mohamed (pbuh) said only what it means to them here and now. sorry if my wording was poor, i do it too often.

To question anything in Islam makes them an apostate. ** (f1.3)**

what is the reference?

Someone raised among Muslims who denies the obligations …<snip… or denies something else which there is scholarly consensus (see b.7) and which is necessarily known as being from the religion,… thereby becomes an unbeliever (kafir) and is executed for his unbelief.

I dont know the source of (b.7), i am not real good at school so may have missed something.
I know Islam places great importance on scholars but the Islamic religion today is very divided and who they acknowledge as a scholar does also. As like Christians scholarship agreement varies. In Islamic religion people this variation may contribute to there not being one sharia law.

BTW where i live i have seen Muslims fall away, be in dispute over interpretation of Allahs authority (the law) but have not seen any executions. But i have seen some stretch beyond the difference and try to find ways to get along in difference. Maybe sharia law differs on executions given the TV shows me some people do get executed. The TV how ever only shows what its viewers want to see. You dont see “Muslim helps Christian build a park bench where people can sit in peace”

(b.7)
The things defined as ‘scholary consensus’ are in (b.7) and I will paraphrase because I don’t want to type all of it. It would be best if you think that Islam is so great, I would suggest buying the book of Sharia laws for yourself. The first place to get defined are Jihad, Zakat and find out about dhimmi, etc. It is very telling.

Where does b.7 come from?

But I digress and some of the things mentioned in b.7 are here: b7.3 The proof of the legal authority of scholarly consensus is that just as Allah has ordered the believers, in the Koran, to obey him and his messenger, so too he has ordered them to obey those of authority among them, saying, .

"O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the prophet and those of authority among you (Koran 4:59),

such that when those of authority in legal expertise, …, agree upon a ruling, it is obligatory in the very words of the Koran to folow them and carry out their judgement.

And Allah threatens those who oppose the messenger and follow other than the believers’ way, saying,

‘Whoever contraverts the messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the believers’ way, We shall give him over to what he has turned to and roast im in hell, and how evil an outcome’ (Koran 4:115).

It goes on but basically the believer becomes the unbeliever - or kafir as they use this term interchangeably.

Again Muslims are like Christians differing on who holds authority today.

Muhammad was not happy over questions to him as we see in some hadith:
Volume 9, Book 92, Number 391:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “Leave me as I leave you) for the people who were before you were ruined because of their questions and their differences over their prophets. So, if I forbid you to do something, then keep away from it. And if I order you to do something, then do of it as much as you can.”

Volume 9, Book 92, Number 395:
Narrated Warrad:

(The clerk of Al-Mughira) Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira ‘Write to me what you have heard from Allah’s Apostle.’ …… He also wrote to him that the Prophet used to forbid (1) Qil and Qal (idle useless talk or that you talk too much about others), (2) Asking too many questions (in disputed Religious matters);…

Those who know me at CAF would know it is rare for me to make any comment on hadiths. On reading these i ponder on my conduct and at times other on CAF how often we focus on what differs us, rather than what we hold in same.
I stay clear on hadiths because many dont offer a full picture of all that was going on at the time and also given the differences in them they show personal bias of the narrator. (no offence to those of you who hold them different, its just my opinion at this time)

Again i really appreciate your post.

By His will may G-d bless and guide you and yours as youes submit unto Him.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Steven

I am indeed a thread title critic. This one gets a thumbs down. No it doesn’t connect to anything.

Bless you, too!

I really don’t follow your post unless you are a thread title critic.

Does your post connect some how to others?

Bless you

 

[Steven_John]

Maybe you should look into taqiyya.

I intend to thats why i asked you.

If they are encouraged to question everything then why don’t they question why they follow a guy who committed so many atrocities?

That varies i reckon, i would guess some is because of lazyness, i see the same things in Christians you come out of Sunday worship and while in fellow ship you say what did you think of pastors talk on Isaiah today and you can see they glazed over and quickly change the subject. Others fear people who have taken a stand often dont want to face they could have been wrong. IE they believe Islam is about peace and Mohamed (pbuh) is the most loving and pious of men. Along come some one who wants to offer otherwise and they shut down.

The guy did those things after he thought up Islam, about 10-13 years after he started preaching and did not gain too many followers through the peaceful verses in the Quran. When he migrated to Medina and gained power that is when he gained the followers, many through intimidation, slavery, subjugation, and others who were willing to fight and get those slaves and also their belongings.

In Christian history Rome changed an gave rise to power and growth in the religion.

He was willing to say that Allah was a liar if it advanced Islam and that goes directly against what the Bible, New Testament, tells us (Titus 1:2 and Hebrews 6:17-18).

Yes i have a huge issue with the same but it is moving away from our discussion.

There are so many other contradictions that it is a long list. Contradictions in the Quran itself, and also contradictions between the Bible and the Quran.

Then we are agreed that sharia law is in consistent, if its source is then you would see it is.

In Sharia laws it is called abrogation, or supersession. Either way, the ones who discuss the Quran are supposed to know about it. The peaceful verses were superceded by the violent verses.

I am not a great scholar but reckon many Muslims forget context for some surahs and use them to validate their personal quests. I pray Christians keep context and argue for peace and mercy above justice as both religions claim as virtues.

Most Muslims don’t read the Quran to study it or to question it, they read it to memorize it in Arabic. Most Muslims don’t know Arabic either.

I guess you are close to many Muslims to make this statement.
My experience is varied some do, some don’t study. The memorisation thing is very true, they were encouraged to memorise given it was before printing press it makes sense. Today Hafiz are still well regarded. For me personally understanding is much better in value, no disrespect to others.

Could you share with us from your direct experience with Muslims and if i assume right you are a follower of Yeshua (pbwh) you are probably sharing meals etc with them.

Your experience may help me in my call to love them.

Bless you

 

[Steven_John]

Hi Steven

I am indeed a thread title critic. This one gets a thumbs down. No it doesn’t connect to anything.

Bless you, too!

Blessings great to hear from you.
Titles do so much for me also. While it is to late to change if you have read the posts and see good intent what would you suggest would be better title?

or maybe if you cant be bothered reading the posts, i get like that some times, please share with us are Catholic called to love Muslim people? that is my intent in saying for, if you like “for His goodness in them”

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’m kidding Steven, the Jews for Jesus joke just popped in my head. Sometimes we all get caught up in these discussions in CAF and they get intense. I throw in a little half-attempt at humor once in a while to relieve the tension. The thread title is FINE. I was quoting Siskel and Ebert LOL…

I have nothing but love for our Muslim brothers and sisters. I wish they’d embrace Christ, the Saviour of the World. They are seeing God through a veil, only pieces, kernels of truth. I reject the Koran whole-heartedly and much of the sentiment of Sharia Law, the Hadith, etc. I have nothing but good wishes for these people and I know most of them are not the lunatics we see with Al-Qaeda and terrorism. I wish Christians and Muslims could forge a healthy relationship that would help eliminate the nuttiness of these madrasas and terrorists.

God bless you.

Blessings great to hear from you.
Titles do so much for me also. While it is to late to change if you have read the posts and see good intent what would you suggest would be better title?

or maybe if you cant be bothered reading the posts, i get like that some times, please share with us are Catholic called to love Muslim people? that is my intent in saying for, if you like “for His goodness in them”

 

[Steven_John]

Br gurneyhalleck1,
I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, yes humour is great sorry i missed it some times i am a bright crayon other times too dull.
Blessings to you and yours

 

[qwerk]

Peace and blessings i appreciate your post it is much help to me.

I would have thought sira to be narrations of Mohamed (pbuh) told by others so would be the same as hadiths.
Do you know of any written sira that pre dates the hadiths?
You are right in acknowledging that there is variation on Muslims understanding of what is true sharia and how those differences come about. I would suggest there are a lot more factors beyond how lenient those in power are toward non Muslims. The variations of Islamic understanding from those sources is wide. Other factors may include personal self interest and bias of culture and experience.

yes i was not suggesting Muslims here question what Mohamed (pbuh) said only what it means to them here and now. sorry if my wording was poor, i do it too often.

what is the reference?

I dont know the source of (b.7), i am not real good at school so may have missed something.
I know Islam places great importance on scholars but the Islamic religion today is very divided and who they acknowledge as a scholar does also. As like Christians scholarship agreement varies. In Islamic religion people this variation may contribute to there not being one sharia law.

BTW where i live i have seen Muslims fall away, be in dispute over interpretation of Allahs authority (the law) but have not seen any executions. But i have seen some stretch beyond the difference and try to find ways to get along in difference. Maybe sharia law differs on executions given the TV shows me some people do get executed. The TV how ever only shows what its viewers want to see. You dont see “Muslim helps Christian build a park bench where people can sit in peace”

Where does b.7 come from?

Again Muslims are like Christians differing on who holds authority today.

Those who know me at CAF would know it is rare for me to make any comment on hadiths. On reading these i ponder on my conduct and at times other on CAF how often we focus on what differs us, rather than what we hold in same.
I stay clear on hadiths because many dont offer a full picture of all that was going on at the time and also given the differences in them they show personal bias of the narrator. (no offence to those of you who hold them different, its just my opinion at this time)

Again i really appreciate your post.

By His will may G-d bless and guide you and yours as youes submit unto Him.

I reference the book of Sharia laws in all the above.

You are a Muslim? Muslims are the only ones that I know put a PBUH after the name of a guy who was a pediphile, murderer, torturer, assasin, extortioner, enslaver, rapist, liar and a thief. And I don’t know Catholics or any Christian that say ‘submit to Him’ or say something like ‘peace and blessings’ before they start writing. . Either that you are really wrong about Islam.

If Muslims are falling away from Islam - good. But if they don’t leave outright and just give the usual line that many Muslims do then I would just be aware of taqiyya. If a Muslim does fall away they are usually exiled from their family and friends, disowned and the worst that can happen is that they can be killed. Many people give the excuse that ‘they know a Muslim and he or she doesn’t do this or that which says they are not violent’. Well, there are always those who fall out of the fold or the statistical ‘mean’. But there is no movement to change Sharia laws, no outrage, none of them take to the streets to protest against their JIhadists that are killing and terrorizing worldwide. Instead we see and read the opposite. They often act the part of victim. Their Muslim Charity goes to organizations that send it to Saudi Arabia and part of that goes to support the Jihadists doing the violence and none of them stop that.

Some things are starting to make sense now since you have gotten so upset when people give the truth about Islam. I have always read on other blogs websites that whenever the Muslims don’t like what the hadith say they tell us that they disregard them. The hadith are quite often inconvenient for them to admit to. You know enough to tell me that which makes me think you know quite a bit more about Islam than you are making out.

I can see a strategy here, but I will go on.

All you need to do to find out what Jihad is and who are practicing it is to go to their Quran. The interpretation for it is the same unless they are Ahmadi and a few minor sects which have absolutely no power in Islam and are also treated like non-Muslims are - dhimmi, or unbelievers. over 95% of the time that Jihad is mentioned it is a call for war or violence against the unbelievers. I have already written this from their Sharia laws that the first line in the definition of Jihad is ‘…to war against the non-Muslims’. If they don’t accept Islam peacefully then war is a requirement and our fault.

If you are not a Muslim you really need to do some research into what you are defending and what you think is so cool. And that means do it on your own. God gave you a brain to use, you can read and think for yourself. You don’t need someone else to tell you what to think or what to read. If in the end this is what you come up with then tell me how you can twist all that evil into something that is good. I really need to know how anyone can think that what Muhammad did was good.

The sira is the life of Mohammed, the Hadith are his sayings, to put it simply. References to Sharia law are from 'Umdat al-Salik, Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. And now I can hardly wait to read you reject that.

 

[qwerk]

Holly has come around to the good invitation of Steven John with some difficulty. Holly insists on exposing falehood, specially that of Islam. How bad? Why not look for the log in their own eye, as advised by Jesus.

I have no problem if any Catholic points out the faults of Islam to me genuinely. But here are many who try to dig out false accusations against islam and the beloved prophet of all the Muslims. They try to judge Islam and Muslims. That was also forbidden by Jesus.

Most of the time, the Catholics accuse Islam of using the sword, even though the word "Sword= Saif " is not found in the Quran at all. See the whole Quran. You will not find the word “Sword.” But Sword is found at few places in the bible:

1. Jesus advised every one to buy swords even by selling clothes.
2. Jesus said “Who ever uses the sword will be killed by the sword.”
3. They said, “master, we have two swords.” Jesus said. “That is enough”
4. One disciple took out the sword and cut the ear of a soldier. Jesus told his follower to put back the sword.

So we see sword in bibleNT.
The number 2 mentioned above allows Muslims to use the sword against any one who brings sword into play. Jesus had said 'Those who use the sword will be killed by the sword." There were many pagans and Roman Catholic soldiers who came to annihilate the Muslims with their superior weaponery (swords and arrows). What were the Muslims supposed to do?? But the Catholics keep on blaming Muslims.

It shows that they have no real knowledge about their own books, about the real teachings of Jesus. Jesus advised them not to Judge. But they insist on judging the Muslims. They never see their own backyard is full of bad theology.

Steven John, or any one else, all need to be calm and approach discussions with love. We Muslims will never mind if we are approached in a decent manner, in the manner Jesus used to do the preaching. That type of preaching will always be welcome. Preach as much as you like. But not with hatred against Muhammad or Islam.

I feel that Steven John has given some guideline to all here, mostly to the christians because he is a christian. Hopefully, The Muslims will repond positively.

Nothing in his first post shows me that he is a Christian. In fact, it has antisemitism in it. It says Yeshua is not God and that is the name Muslims use for Jesus and they are the ones who constantly bring this up in order to try to pass off their Quran as what is correct. If I am wrong, just let me know but that first post is very telling.

Maybe Steven John can let me know his take on the Trinity. I would be interested in his viewpoint.

And planten we do indeed see many problems but we have the ability to change things and not be worried that if we question, change, leave, etc that we will be considered committing treason and be either exiled and banished from our family and friends, and at the very most killed.

Please provide the Chapter and verse that you are getting your quotes. The first one I need a Chapter and verse. The 2nd one is correct - if you chose to lead a life of violence then you will die by violence. The 3rd one, I need a Chapter and a verse, and lastly the 4th one you are proving my point - Jesus said to ‘put back the sword’. Where Muhammad continually told his followers to ‘fight in the way of Allah’, and that ‘fighting’ was not figurative, he meant fight - kill - torture - steal - enslave - etc.

Exposing what we believe is wrong is exactly the right thing to do. And I am not just talking about falsehoods here, I am talking about it just being morally wrong. I have shown Bible passages in my previous posts that tell us that we will be persecuted for standing up for what is right, and that anyone teaching people to go against the Commandments is morally wrong and from evil.

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by qwerk
Sharia laws tell them they are not supposed to ask any questions either.

I dont say what you are posting is wrong as there are many varied interpretations of sharia law.

Could you quote me your source, at the mosque where i live everyone is encouraged to question everything.

peace and blessings

Steven John, whatever qwerk is posting is all false. There is no such thing as qwerk is suggesting. Let your peace and blessings work. Keep it up and going in the name of God/Allah/Yehwah. . Thanks.

 

[Steven_John]

I reference the book of Sharia laws in all the above.

did not even know there was one i will look for it.

You are a Muslim?

dont know if that is a question or a statement, I think given the rest of your post it reads as a statemnet.

Muslims are the only ones that I know put a PBUH after the name of a guy who was a pediphile, murderer, torturer, assasin, extortioner, enslaver, rapist, liar and a thief. And I don’t know Catholics or any Christian that say ‘submit to Him’ or say something like ‘peace and blessings’ before they start writing.

. Ok for me Yeshua (pbwh) teaches to love brethren, unbelievers and enemy you are welcome to not want peace for all, you have free will so do as you choose.

Either that you are really wrong about Islam.

You would need to actually qualify that with what i have said about Islam that is wrong, most of your posted content i agreed with so i am confused. Other than to sense your upset.

If Muslims are falling away from Islam - good. But if they don’t leave outright and just give the usual line that many Muslims do then I would just be aware of taqiyya. If a Muslim does fall away they are usually exiled from their family and friends, disowned and the worst that can happen is that they can be killed.

No argument from me i dont live where you do, i dont eat with the same Muslims you do. I have only spoken of what i have seen. why do you take isue and argue against the truth?

Many people give the excuse that ‘they know a Muslim and he or she doesn’t do this or that which says they are not violent’. Well, there are always those who fall out of the fold or the statistical ‘mean’. But there is no movement to change Sharia laws, no outrage, none of them take to the streets to protest against their JIhadists that are killing and terrorizing worldwide. Instead we see and read the opposite.

well that is kind of what i was trying to learn from you but you have really slipped into some real passion that has lost me and our chat, sorry. Maybe you could share of your personal contact when your fellowship has been reaching out to love Muslims. testimonies help me see where you are coming from.

They often act the part of victim.

where i live at times they are victimised for what they saying they are Islamic without regard to their actions. As some point out lots of them dont even have knowledge of Islamic religion. So they are truly victims. I have met many who are peaceful people with low education and no hope of learning as you have. Again though this is my personal experience and is not against the community where you live and they sound to be all scholars.

Their Muslim Charity goes to organizations that send it to Saudi Arabia and part of that goes to support the Jihadists doing the violence and none of them stop that.

Sad your country is not advanced enough to regulate charities. Where i live we are very blessed and get onto the minority issues quickly. Pitty we dont do so well with crime monies. If you tell me where you are i will pray for government to become strong and wise. It would be hard for you to live in the conditions you describe. Your government sounds corrupt. I live in a democracy, I know G-d is not for democracy but it has blessed us with some government accountability.

Some things are starting to make sense now since you have gotten so upset when people give the truth about Islam. I have always read on other blogs websites that whenever the Muslims don’t like what the hadith say they tell us that they disregard them. The hadith are quite often inconvenient for them to admit to. You know enough to tell me that which makes me think you know quite a bit more about Islam than you are making out.

Again you are welcome to judge me by your web sites as you have free will. My experience of the www world is their is a site to cater to everyone’s fancy. I encourage Muslims to consider Gospels are less than 100 years old where as Hadiths are like 300 plus but please dont let me get in the way of you and your god judging me without the truth.

…

 

[Steven_John]

I can see a strategy here, but I will go on.

you sure you dont think too much? You seem way off. temptation comes to me to stir and trap you in words but He would rather I get back to peace between us.

All you need to do to find out what Jihad is and who are practicing it is to go to their Quran. The interpretation for it is the same unless they are Ahmadi and a few minor sects which have absolutely no power in Islam and are also treated like non-Muslims are - dhimmi, or unbelievers.

so you say but in other posts some mention that some Muslims dont know the Quran well. I have read differing english translations. I am not Arabic speaking so unlike you i am not really in a position to comment.

over 95% of the time that Jihad is mentioned it is a call for war or violence against the unbelievers

. Yes and how much is relevant to specific times and circumstances but is used by terrorists to validate their objectives.

I have already written this from their Sharia laws that the first line in the definition of Jihad is ‘…to war against the non-Muslims’.

I have been told by some Muslims their Jihad is about the heart. yes i will go look for this book of law, and then will be able to tell them “you are wrong about yourself, you have no idea about your own self, i have been shown a book which over rides your personal being”

If they don’t accept Islam peacefully then war is a requirement and our fault.

So it is where you live and you can try to correct what i see as you seem to be trying but why would i believe you?

If you are not a Muslim you really need to do some research into what you are defending and what you think is so cool. And that means do it on your own.

Now you are getting way out of line quote for me where i say “it is so cool” do what on my own?

God gave you a brain to use, you can read and think for yourself.

Really are sure of my brain capacity? do you know what i am diagnosed with?

You don’t need someone else to tell you what to think or what to read.

Sure seems you are having a good go, you have told me un truths about me and now claim you did not need to tell me anything?

If in the end this is what you come up with then tell me how you can twist all that evil into something that is good.

Quote me or are you going back to the idea that i do need to be told?

I really need to know how anyone can think that what Muhammad did was good.

Maybe instead of directing your personal descent into false thought go ask some one who does and listen to them with understanding.

The sira is the life of Mohammed, the Hadith are his sayings, to put it simply. References to Sharia law are from 'Umdat al-Salik, Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. And now I can hardly wait to read you reject that.

yes well i have been on CAF for some time and i still learn.

Your attitude toward me is exactly what i try to discourage at CAF and was the point of the thread. By encouraging people not to decide what others do are and believe and experience makes for less sin in the world.

Blessings to you submit unto Him
Yeshua (pbwh) submitted his will to G-d, i am encouraged to be of his way. You are not compelled to submit.

I did not put much time into re reading this sorry you are worth a lot more effort than i made. May G-d for give me for errors and omissions.

 

[Steven_John]

Steven John, whatever qwerk is posting is all false. There is no such thing as qwerk is suggesting. Let your peace and blessings work. Keep it up and going in the name of God/Allah/Yehwah. . Thanks.

AoA
May Allah bless you and the others here at CAF for encouraging me to build peace and dialogue between all who profess to be for the G-d Abraham (pbuh)

I think he missed i was asking of what he offered not challenging and that i spoke of what actually happens where i live.

 

[Steven_John]

Peace and blessings Qwerk,

It says Yeshua is not God and that is the name Muslims use for Jesus and they are the ones who constantly bring this up in order to try to pass off their Quran as what is correct. If I am wrong, just let me know but that first post is very telling.

Yeshua is a Hebrew name and maybe very close to the Aramaic.

Arabic Muslims say Isa (pbuh) when reffering to who you might call Jesus.

Seems your god wants you to really be a passionate warner, if you are still keen on sticking with it, despite it leading you into falsehood may i suggest.

If you want to be serious about making issue of language this may help you.

Linguistics’ I cant find any way to translate any of the names given to Yeshua (pbwh) in any language to Isa in Arabic.

You strike me as a quick person so i urge you to research it for your self before going out with it. i am not Arabic speaking and have issues with mental capacity. I have tried some study of Written Arabic, spoken Arabic and Quranic Arabic but was not capable to complete the course in credited learning.

bless you pray well and stay well

 

[Steven_John]

Oh earlier when i was at mass i was reminded about the response i made about Muslims telling lies.

I have met some Muslims that believe they are permitted and some that see it forbidden.

I have read in the Quran about it, sorry i dont remember where some one here with a complete brain will surely know.

My interpretation was, G-d does not permit any one to lie but in some circumstances forgives.

I am very saddened when i hear people planning lies or suggesting it is permitted.

If i find the books Qwerk spoke of i will be keen to see if they reference the surha.

I am a little odd unlike most of my culture i dont believe their are white lies for me black is black. But i do have understanding of what they are saying.

 

[qwerk]

Oh earlier when i was at mass i was reminded about the response i made about Muslims telling lies.

I have met some Muslims that believe they are permitted and some that see it forbidden.

I have read in the Quran about it, sorry i dont remember where some one here with a complete brain will surely know.

My interpretation was, G-d does not permit any one to lie but in some circumstances forgives.

I am very saddened when i hear people planning lies or suggesting it is permitted.

If i find the books Qwerk spoke of i will be keen to see if they reference the surha.

I am a little odd unlike most of my culture i dont believe their are white lies for me black is black. But i do have understanding of what they are saying.

God forgives people who sin, but only the idea of God of Muhammad says it is ok to do depending on the circumstances. The more you write the more I sense a Muslim trying to pass himself off as a Christian.

Can you tell me about the Trinit?. You tell me more about what is happening in a mosque than what is a Christian.

Muslims are not permitted to tell a lie to each other, it is permissable to do to non-Muslims. You seem to know about the hadith and sira, but don’t know about what the Quran and Hadith say about deception?

Matt 5: 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Muhammad taught that lying is ok in the case of advancing Islam.

 

[qwerk]

AoA
May Allah bless you and the others here at CAF for encouraging me to build peace and dialogue between all who profess to be for the G-d Abraham (pbuh)

I think he missed i was asking of what he offered not challenging and that i spoke of what actually happens where i live.

Once again, Muslims are the only ones who push the ‘God of Abraham’ stuff. And put the pbuh stuff behind names. People in Australia do not use the word Allah to describe God unless they are Muslim.

You are here to try to get us to think that Catholics are more Islamic than not and try to change people’s terminology and thinking to be more like Islam’s way.

I am waiting for your take on the Trinity too. This should be interesting.

 

[qwerk]

Is this the only way you can get people to revert to Islam? By parading around as a Christian? You must have a gut feeling that Islam cannot stand on its own because there is nothing in it that is worthy. Just like Muhammad during the first years after he made Islam up he could only get 100-150 people to convert to it in 13 years of preaching. It was only after it became political and was forced down people’s throats did it grow. It was only after untold numbers of slaves were captured, raped and had children. After years of bloody massacres when he realized it was fruitful to have a dhimmi class and those people converted because life was so hellish as dhimmi did he get converts.

 

[KathleenGee]

Jesus in Hebrew means ‘one who saves’.

Jesus is True Prophet, Catholic teaching, but also One Who fulfills all prophecy, and Who saves…new life…

A grain of wheat must fall to the ground and die before it can spring and bear fruit.

Jesus, the Bread of Life.

The faith of Israel is one olive tree and one lighted lamp. The faith in Christ is an olive tree and a lighted lamp. There are allusions in Scripture to the two olive trees and the two lamps…

Someday they will be grafted together. It is already happening within the Hebrew Catholic movement with many Gentile Christian Catholics becoming associates.

The Muslims should also read how the Hebrew Jewish Catholics are now recognzing the image of the Church in the Old Testament. Fascinating and all are welcome to grow in the Tree of Life.

 

[rikkk1958]

I want to think that Steven John wants to live in love Jesus teaches. He seems to teach us that it does not matter which religion you belong as long as you do righteousness especially by loving one another. I wish to know how he got the idea of becoming such a person. I am sure that he must have learned something, somewhere, somehow.