Catholics for Muslims

[qwerk]

I want to think that Steven John wants to live in love Jesus teaches. He seems to teach us that it does not matter which religion you belong as long as you do righteousness especially by loving one another. I wish to know how he got the idea of becoming such a person. I am sure that he must have learned something, somewhere, somehow.

***I am waiting for his take on the Trinity. ***

I do not believe that Islam’s ideology is ok. If one is a Muslim then so be it, but the idea that telling us the ideology is ok is reallly misguided. It is to be expected from Muslims, but not a Christian who is telling us he doesn’t know it. If he is a Christian and not familiar with Islam to think it is ok or to pass off that it is ok is misguided. But some of his words to hint that he knows it more than he is letting on. Defending something that one is not familiar with is not too wise. The way he posts looks exactly like Muslim posts and the last person I would put a pbuh behind would be Muhammad.

It is dangerous for people to defend something that they do not know because they are dangering other’s souls if that something is just wrong.

 

[Steven_John]

I want to think that Steven John wants to live in love Jesus teaches. He seems to teach us that it does not matter which religion you belong as long as you do righteousness especially by loving one another. I wish to know how he got the idea of becoming such a person. I am sure that he must have learned something, somewhere, somehow.

Peace and blessings Rikkk,
yes i would love everyone to live in true love. I have nothing to teach, as we have been given a teacher. I am trying to encourage. It does matter what religion people belong to. It does not matter to me what religion you are, that does not mean i dont care but my salvation does not depend on yours. I care very much about you and i am to build up in you the character G-d intends man to be.
As for where i get it i think it was always inside me but the narrations of Yeshua (pbwh) words in scripture and prayer stir it out.
If you come to me and have virtues i read in the good news and tell me you get them from the Quran i will not be against you. Yes i will be keen to learn how you read it so. If i see you with virtues against what i see as the way then i will try to challenge the fruits of your virtues. Those fruits will be the evidence for you to challenge your source.

That is of my experience, i have learned that attitude brings attitude.

I also have been blessed with a loving Catholic community who I am outreaching with. Catholics teach to love even your enemy and from what i see are very good at professing living so not to put obstacles in people path.

I know the chats we have had you dont live from the Quran but i hope it answers with some detail your question.

 

[qwerk]

Peace and blessings Rikkk,
yes i would love everyone to live in true love. I have nothing to teach, as we have been given a teacher. I am trying to encourage. It does matter what religion people belong to. It does not matter to me what religion you are, that does not mean i dont care but my salvation does not depend on yours. I care very much about you and i am to build up in you the character G-d intends man to be.
As for where i get it i think it was always inside me but the narrations of Yeshua (pbwh) words in scripture and prayer stir it out.
If you come to me and have virtues i read in the good news and tell me you get them from the Quran i will not be against you. Yes i will be keen to learn how you read it so. If i see you with virtues against what i see as the way then i will try to challenge the fruits of your virtues. Those fruits will be the evidence for you to challenge your source.

That is of my experience, i have learned that attitude brings attitude.

I also have been blessed with a loving Catholic community who I am outreaching with. Catholics teach to love even your enemy and from what i see are very good at professing living so not to put obstacles in people path.

I know the chats we have had you dont live from the Quran but i hope it answers with some detail your question.

If you are willing to say this about Islam then why did you bash the Jews in your first post?

What is your take on the Trinity?

Your salvation depends on others if you are unwittingly teaching them the wrong thing. You can find out what is correct or not and if you chose not to then that is not wise. Read Matthew Chapter 5. Matthew Chapters 7 and 24 are pretty telling too. Verse 19 in Chapter 5 tells a lot about what Muhammad did in regards to telling his followers to lie, that it is wrong and will indeed effect the outcome to one’s salvation.

 

[Steven_John]

Once again, Muslims are the only ones who push the ‘God of Abraham’ stuff. And put the pbuh stuff behind names. People in Australia do not use the word Allah to describe God unless they are Muslim.

Hi again i dont know what part of Australia you live, given your issues with charities i assumed you lived in another country. There are many places that dont have people of other cultures mainly in the northern central part of the country. My parish community where i live is very diverse in cultural back ground. Arabic speaking Christians do live in Australia. I have no problems with “Allah” meaning the One and only god. I was talking to Planten he refers to G-d as Allah and i speak to him the same way. “The G-d of Abraham (pbuh) stuff " is just to show we are by intention seeking the same G-d” sorry it is difficult for you. You state it as

Once again, Muslims are the only ones who push the ‘God of Abraham’ stuff.

Let me call a spade a spade you have told another lie. Grab a bible, grab the Catholic Catechism references to Abraham’s G-d and or Abrahamic faith are used by non Muslims also.

You are here to try to get us to think that Catholics are more Islamic than not and try to change people’s terminology and thinking to be more like Islam’s way.

Another lie, dont listen to that that leads you astray. Bro with respect you may benefit form terminology challenges, ie as we have discussed Yeshua (pbwh) is not arabic.

I am waiting for your take on the Trinity too. This should be interesting.

Am i to be tested to support or deny your theory? Are you the appointed tester to prove G-ds goodness. Did you miss Jesus? Bro it has been done.
Or for you am i just some sport?
You sound like a man who is looking to trap me and lay wait for me to make a mess in my words.
If that is what you want just back read my posts, plenty to feed on there. I am not the best with words.
A priest taught me trinity is a mystery. In the Catholic Church one is not encouraged to challenge authority.

You have pulled me up in another thread for moving from the topic, your personal challenges here seem to leave this topic. You may prefer to start a thread to test me or one with your intentions displayed openly.

2000 years how far we have not come.

As long as you keep spouting i don’t see us getting far in discussion, i love you but with out loving dialogue you only show that the thread little is more fitting for protestants. I frequent an AOG fellowship here and have seen similar track to our conversation. I even had the pastor have real hang ups over the word Allah that no Christian should ever say that. He went on for weeks until finally he lent me a book by an AOG scholar explain this guy would straighten me out. I returned the book with a book mark on the page where it explains Allah is an Arabic word used by arabic Christians for their G-d. He spouted more despite him correcting himself.
This thread was not started to bless protestants but to bless Catholics, you are welcome to continue but please consider if you want to get something out of participating.

If your god has need for you to trial me you can do so in pm or if it needs it to be public start a thread, i will participate best i can and you can show every one i am not perfect, you dont seem to take my word for it.

IMO we were given perfection tho many profess him we still reject him not willing to fully be or see him.

My reflection, but you know better of it than i do
*You seem to come at me as if i am they guy who thinks he has all the answers. That’s just not so the One with all the answers is much closer to you, stop listening to the one who feeds you false hood and has you focus on me.A blessing of the thread is to have us focus on our own selves. Doing this this thread has helped me and maybe some others *

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

 

[Steven_John]

If you are willing to say this about Islam then why did you bash the Jews in your first post?

Explanation would be helpful for me to correct, as my intention was not to do so.
Peace and blessings

 

[rikkk1958]

Peace and blessings Rikkk,
yes i would love everyone to live in true love. I have nothing to teach, as we have been given a teacher. I am trying to encourage. It does matter what religion people belong to. It does not matter to me what religion you are, that does not mean i dont care but my salvation does not depend on yours. I care very much about you and i am to build up in you the character G-d intends man to be.
As for where i get it i think it was always inside me but the narrations of Yeshua (pbwh) words in scripture and prayer stir it out.
If you come to me and have virtues i read in the good news and tell me you get them from the Quran i will not be against you. Yes i will be keen to learn how you read it so. If i see you with virtues against what i see as the way then i will try to challenge the fruits of your virtues. Those fruits will be the evidence for you to challenge your source.

That is of my experience, i have learned that attitude brings attitude.

I also have been blessed with a loving Catholic community who I am outreaching with. Catholics teach to love even your enemy and from what i see are very good at professing living so not to put obstacles in people path.

I know the chats we have had you dont live from the Quran but i hope it answers with some detail your question.

Your philosophical attributes came from what you learned that is why you are talking this way. The basis of your belief came from sources that suits your understanding and interests. I based my understandings from the Word of God that is why I will continue to spread the good news it offers for all who want to follow.

This is a different approach from what you want to be. However, I will be glad to see you follow the scriptures, from the right source and not fakes ones. Knowledge is not a requisite for faith. You decide to do what you desire, I for one will not mind at all. If you desire to do what you think is right then do as you please.

You are in this forum because you want to teach what you understand, which means that you are confident that your understanding comes from the right source. If you insist that the Quran will give meanings to the life of some of us whom you want to convince, rest assured I for one will disagree with you.

I want you to know that further discussions of another religion like Islam will be contrary to the the true Word of God. It is all because of the beginnings of the inceptions of these so called other religions. No matter how the Quran is written, it boils down to who made it. This means, do not rely to someone who himself alone witnessed his own revelation.

 

[qwerk]

Allah is not YHWH.

I am an American. As for cultural differences, I work with Vietnamese, Koreans, Chinese, Japanese (we just hired a Japanese and this is a first), Mexicans, Nicaraguans, Chileans, and Brazilians, English, French, Nigerians and Malaysians. I work with Buddhists, Jews, Christians (in all sorts of sects), Muslims and Jews. I work in an area where there are many Black Muslims from the Nation of Islam. At night I work with some Americans who happen to be black and some Vietnamese. All of the people I work with are outstanding guys and gals. Well, there are a few that can get on my nerves but for the most part they are a great group of people to work with. I have even worked with a Canadian when I served in the military - he was looking for citizenship. I even worked with an Australian Air Force Sgt. for about 3 months. (I can’t handle those beers that he would drink like water)

All you are doing is trying to sound cool in thinking that Allah is God. Reading the texts will show you differently. There is absolutely no comparison between Allah to the God of Israel.

By thinking it is cool to equate Allah to God, it shows me that you have not read any of Islam’s books on the subject.

All I am saying is that to teach something wrong by chosing to stay ignorant or to think it is cool by thinking you are so ‘wordly’ by doing so is not wise.

Telling me that I lie is just a knee jerk reaction to criticism. I have been studying Islam for almost 11-12 years now, have been raised as a Christian since I was born and I have only heard this ‘Abrahamic’ in regards to God only in the last 5 yrs or so because many are trying to fit into the Muslim’s idea of God. But all I am saying is that before you go off on a tangent to read Islamic books for yourself.

As for interrupting you from another thread, wow - :ehh: you got to be kidding.

As for this thread, it was started with a post that was way off.

The number one reason why Allah is not God is that He told us He would not lie to us.

“a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,” Titus 1:2

If Allah is God then He totally changed the message from that to one of deceit. Allah in Islam is known as a liar. It is readily apparent in the Koran and the law of Abrogation.

1. From God we get: Love God, love your neighbor
   From Allah we get: Love Allah and Muhammad, and if you neighbor is not a Muslim then wage Jihad against them. Subjugate them or convert them. Enslave them if they are not Muslim or as a spoil of war. Rape the slaves if you want, and don’t worry about getting them pregnant.
2. From God we get: The Golden Rule of how we treat each other
   From Allah we get: subjugation, enslavement, lie to them if they are in the stage of dawa or the call to Islam, kill them if they refuse the call to Islam. Show them the Meccan face while the numbers and power is low, show them the Medina face when the numbers are greater and they have more power.

Tell me what is it in the above that is similar?

And your answer on the Trinity is very disturbing. Yes, it is a mystery but there is no problem at all with discussing it.

 

[Steven_John]

Your philosophical attributes came from what you learned that is why you are talking this way. The basis of your belief came from sources that suits your understanding and interests. I based my understandings from the Word of God that is why I will continue to spread the good news it offers for all who want to follow.

I assume this is to this comment

That is of my experience, i have learned that attitude brings attitude

i am very keen to learn of your experience, have you converted many Muslims? Have you initiated active dialogue and so on.
I see these as fruits of your actions form the understandings you have.

For me the bible narrations show Yeshua (pbwh) as eating with sinners, yes that does not meant we take false as truth, this was discussed much earlier in this thread.

Are you finding Muslims are open to the bible? or do you have other ways you are sharing the good news?

This is a different approach from what you want to be. However, I will be glad to see you follow the scriptures, from the right source and not fakes ones. Knowledge is not a requisite for faith. You decide to do what you desire, I for one will not mind at all. If you desire to do what you think is right then do as you please.

well when it come to what i want to be, i would rather sit back and not get involved. I am personally lazy but something inside stirs up end encourages me to look for ways to bring dialogue between people who profess virtues of love and peace.

You are in this forum because you want to teach what you understand, which means that you are confident that your understanding comes from the right source.

Maybe you are right i guess i have not thought of it that way, my feeling is i want out but in lent especially i am drawn in some how. I am uncomfortable with the word teach you dont need one as one has been sent to you. I would be more comfortable with the word share. I have no authority.

If you insist that the Quran will give meanings to the life of some of us whom you want to convince, rest assured I for one will disagree with you.

oh come on quote me? that is far from this thread, its about people not books. If you have iron to sharpen me help me by showing the splinter in my eye rather than just saying their is one.

I want you to know that further discussions of another religion like Islam will be contrary to the the true Word of God. It is all because of the beginnings of the inceptions of these so called other religions. No matter how the Quran is written, it boils down to who made it. This means, do not rely to someone who himself alone witnessed his own revelation.

Ok i now know your opinion, i am least concerned with books and most concerned with virtues.

I reflect on past Sadducees and Pharocess how expert they were in books but how poor they were in loving those who were sinners.

I appreciate the peace in your discussion it gives me opportunity to reflect and grow.

Blessings to you and yours

 

[Steven_John]

Allah is not YHWH.

I am an American. As for cultural differences, I work with Vietnamese, Koreans, Chinese, Japanese (we just hired a Japanese and this is a first), Mexicans, Nicaraguans, Chileans, and Brazilians, English, French, Nigerians and Malaysians. I work with Buddhists, Jews, Christians (in all sorts of sects), Muslims and Jews. I work in an area where there are many Black Muslims from the Nation of Islam. At night I work with some Americans who happen to be black and some Vietnamese. All of the people I work with are outstanding guys and gals. Well, there are a few that can get on my nerves but for the most part they are a great group of people to work with. I have even worked with a Canadian when I served in the military - he was looking for citizenship. I even worked with an Australian Air Force Sgt. for about 3 months. (I can’t handle those beers that he would drink like water)

Guess you have decided we must do it your way and here.
How many Arabic speaking Christians are you working with in language the intention of both words is the same.
Yes Muslims have a different view of who G-d is but so do Protestants and Catholics yet still the same word is used for Him.

If the Muslims you work with are outstanding then you have grasped the point of the thread very well.

G-d bless you

 

[Steven_John]

By thinking it is cool to equate Allah to God, it shows me that you have not read any of Islam’s books on the subject.

has nothing to do with being cool that is your word for what it is worth i need to be hot. The bold shows me you are not hearing the difference that has been well stated time after time.

All I am saying is that to teach something wrong by chosing to stay ignorant or to think it is cool by thinking you are so ‘wordly’ by doing so is not wise.

First i am not a teacher, you should have one. I am hear to share. Your statement contradicts earlier ones am i ignorant or as in your early posts where i had some plan or something?

Telling me that I lie is just a knee jerk reaction to criticism.

No its not, straight up, you said things of me that were untrue. maybe your statement here is the jerk reaction

I have been studying Islam for almost 11-12 years now, have been raised as a Christian since I was born and I have only heard this ‘Abrahamic’ in regards to God only in the last 5 yrs or so because many are trying to fit into the Muslim’s idea of God.

Read Genisis for the first reference. Could you please tell me of the degree you have gained in the 12 years of study?

But all I am saying is that before you go off on a tangent to read Islamic books for yourself.

to Bring you back on to the tangent of what i am sharing, it of my experience so far.

As for interrupting you from another thread, wow - :ehh: you got to be kidding

. What are you on about?
do you mean this

You have pulled me up in another thread for moving from the topic, your personal challenges here seem to leave this topic.

if you do it kinda shows we might not get any where if not help me out by quoting me so i can be corrected.

As for this thread, it was started with a post that was way off.

Then dont rant but share the message of goodness protestants share about it. It does not help when you say oh you are wrong but dont speak of what you see is right.

You said i bashed Jews but have not said how or what should be interpreted.

The number one reason why Allah is not God is that He told us He would not lie to us.

Now we are back to people having differing images of who G-d is, it is not the same as the profession of the G-d they seek.

“a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,” Titus 1:2

Again quote where i spoke against this.

If Allah is God then He totally changed the message from that to one of deceit.

we are back again to people having a wrong image of G-d, Catholic and protestants have differing views do you accuse Catholics of not seeking worshipping G-d?

as Allah in Islam is known as a liar. It is readily apparent in the Koran and the law of Abrogation.

well i have pulled you up on some lies here so what guides you am i to take from your posts you worship a god of lies?

1. From God we get: Love God, love your neighbor

Now you seem to get the thread again so i will just stop here or we will go on for ever.

Bless you pray well and stay well

 

[TEPO]

IMHO, I think that Catholics should accept the Muslims as our Brothers and Sisters, yet pray for them at the same time… I believe that Allah is the same God as ours just lacking truth in details… Allah is the Muslim interpretation of God – a vague interpretation but still the same.

I believe that the Catholic Church holds all the fullness of truth that God has given man. But we are ALL sinners… Only by the grace of God can anyone come to understand the truth, and that calls for prayer.

Catholics should be praying for the conversion of all sinners – including ourselves and those still guilty of original sin.

 

[qwerk]

has nothing to do with being cool that is your word for what it is worth i need to be hot. The bold shows me you are not hearing the difference that has been well stated time after time.

First i am not a teacher, you should have one. I am hear to share. Your statement contradicts earlier ones am i ignorant or as in your early posts where i had some plan or something?

No its not, straight up, you said things of me that were untrue. maybe your statement here is the jerk reaction
Read Genisis for the first reference. Could you please tell me of the degree you have gained in the 12 years of study?

to Bring you back on to the tangent of what i am sharing, it of my experience so far.
. What are you on about?
do you mean this
if you do it kinda shows we might not get any where if not help me out by quoting me so i can be corrected.
Then dont rant but share the message of goodness protestants share about it. It does not help when you say oh you are wrong but dont speak of what you see is right.

You said i bashed Jews but have not said how or what should be interpreted.

Now we are back to people having differing images of who G-d is, it is not the same as the profession of the G-d they seek.

Again quote where i spoke against this.

we are back again to people having a wrong image of G-d, Catholic and protestants have differing views do you accuse Catholics of not seeking worshipping G-d? well i have pulled you up on some lies here so what guides you am i to take from your posts you worship a god of lies?

1. From God we get: Love God, love your neighbor

Now you seem to get the thread again so i will just stop here or we will go on for ever.

Bless you pray well and stay well

I am trying to figure out what you know and do not know. In one post you made about a comment about the hadith and sira and the order of relevence. That really doesn’t mean that a person has read any of it.

Calling me a liar you set the mode of the conversation. By ignoring what Allah is says a lot too. They can insist they worship a single God, but that doesn’t make it the God of Israel. Allah is only a name that Muhammad took from his pagan religion before he started Islam. It was one of many Gods in the Kabaa. All he did was to destroy the others and he chose Allah to keep. He almost kept his three daughters and they are referenced in the Quran too, but was advised not to do that.

One post I read from spn8xxx, was concerning the Angel Gabriel. In line with God not lying to us is the part where the Angel Gabriel came to Mary to proclaim that she was going to be the Mother of God. But then Muhammad claimed that this same Angel told him that Jesus was not God. This angel said a lot of other things that were directly contradictory to the Bible but this is the most telling since it sets up God as a liar if He were the same God as Allah. But Allah is described as a liar by Muhammad.

Unfortunately you are a teacher when you post as you do. There will be people who read and are swayed. To chose to defend things that are either just wrong, or you know little of, is not very wise. We all switch between teacher and student, they are interchangeable. The student learns from the teacher and the teacher learns from the student. Each grows and learns.

Chosing ignorance about what Islam teaches in the Quran is not learning either. Chosing to ignore what is in their ideology is also not learning. I don’t know how you can equate that with being a student, or learning.

I figured you wouldn’t like the word ‘cool’, but I didn’t know a better way to say it. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the ideoloy of Islam as you are so reluctant to do. Please point out in the Bible where it is a sin to do so.

 

[qwerk]

I forgot to add - what does Genesis have to do with this? What part of Genesis do you want me to read? What for? To tell you the differences between what the Bible says and what Muhammad said concerning creation, or Adam and Eve, or something else? I am lost as to why you want me to do that.

If I read Genesis will you read the stuff that you are trying to defend?

 

[TEPO]

I think that Christians have a hard time accepting Muslims because they are afraid of them… Not really of them personally though, just of the ideology of a religion that they perceive as hateful towards them… If Muslims really refer to Christians as dogs and pigs, then you can surely understand how dialogue is difficult.

I will admit that the thought of a growing Islam is scary to me. I honestly feel much safer connecting with Buddhists, Jews, Pantheists, and even atheists.

Maybe once Christians can overcome the notion that all Muslims secretly hate us, then we can start dialogue.

I wonder if Muslims think that Christians hate them too… I doubt it, I think they probably consider us weak like pigs.

 

[Steven_John]

I forgot to add - what does Genesis have to do with this? What part of Genesis do you want me to read? What for? To tell you the differences between what the Bible says and what Muhammad said concerning creation, or Adam and Eve, or something else? I am lost as to why you want me to do that.

If I read Genesis will you read the stuff that you are trying to defend?

Peace and blessings,
I really dont think i am in a position to explain anything of myself to you with out just making bigger issues between us.

I pointed to Genesis as the first book that speaks of “the God of Abraham” or the faith he had in his God as you had said it was a Muslim only thing.

Bless you sorry i was not able to be clearer to you in my conversation.

 

[qwerk]

Peace and blessings,
I really dont think i am in a position to explain anything of myself to you with out just making bigger issues between us.

I pointed to Genesis as the first book that speaks of “the God of Abraham” or the faith he had in his God as you had said it was a Muslim only thing.

Bless you sorry i was not able to be clearer to you in my conversation.

I never said that the God of Israel wasn’t the God of Abraham. But Allah is not that God of Israel is what I am saying.

And before the Muslims started pushing their Allah on us, they are the ones that started this ‘Abrahamic’ preface to Allah and Islam. None of it is true. If you read their stuff you would know this.

Ironic that you are so willing to agree with them even if you haven’t read their stuff but you argue with me. All I am saying is to read.

And if you did there are some really glaring differences with Allah and YHWH. Ironic too is that none of the names of Allah are YHWH, or Father. And I already talked about spnxxxx’s point about the Angel Gabriel and the mixed message that you think is ok if you buy into Islam. Or even the part that directly goes against God being a liar to us.

I feel like I am discussing with someone who is covering their ears and saying lalalalala… oh, and don’t forget all the love-dove stuff. Do you think that by saying all that love-dove stuff then ignoring what the Bible says, and what Islam’s stuff says, is ok?

 

[Steven_John]

I will admit that the thought of a growing Islam is scary to me. I honestly feel much safer connecting with Buddhists, Jews, Pantheists, and even atheists.

For what its worth i have the same feelings when i listen to what some here have experienced or i look at the television.

I dont fear the Islamic community where i live any more, i know them and they are for the most part very nice.

I used to have real fear big and deep of Islam until the first time i prayed with them, i nearly messed my pants with fear. I was the only one from our parish who actually showed up. A group of huge smelly men form different countries squeezed in close gibbering away in another language.
At out parish people spread out and we dont use latin any more and I can near understand english.

I was trembling feeling like a little lamb among huge wolfs.
Images of TV be headings and fighting were flashing in my mind.

I became sure they were going to sacrifice me, i am embarrassed to share with you my head went this way but it did.

A voice in my head kept telling me to leave, i did not need to be there, where was the rest of the parish, their idea not mine where are they now. The voice kept telling me i could go and should go why die today?

I was praying and praying, the next inspiration was so what if they chop my body up, it is not important. He inspired me to question who do i fear them or Me?

You G-d and none else.

I was blessed with huge peace in that moment where they could have killed me and i may have smiled all the way.

I have come to know these men as humans since, faults and strengths. I have seen them in good and bad times.

I love them very much and have seen lots of G-ds goodness.

In my Parish family none of my brethren are perfect best i can discern in action they are no better than the Muslims.

Today i consider my country may become under Islamic rule, i dont look forward to it and will stand against it as i am called to stand against democracy.

But i aspire not to live in fear and will live in love no matter how dark it gets.

My G-d tells me in the last days it will be hard so if it is it will prove His word true.

Him willing me submitting if i continue to love them it might be a tiny bit better for you and yours.

From experience people find it much harder not to have compassion when they know some one up close and personal.

I say it again attitude brings attitude, not to Br Tepo but others here.

I pray G-d blesses you Br Tepo with peace no matter what you are called to face. Your sharing has moved me.

PS i have met some Muslims that were hard to get along with at all, experience has shown me time and effort does create some place to begin dialogue with some, maybe if i made more effort at putting me aside for them He could do more.

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

 

[planten]

IMHO, I think that Catholics should accept the Muslims as our Brothers and Sisters, yet pray for them at the same time… I believe that Allah is the same God as ours just lacking truth in details… Allah is the Muslim interpretation of God – a vague interpretation but still the same.

I believe that the Catholic Church holds all the fullness of truth that God has given man. But we are ALL sinners… Only by the grace of God can anyone come to understand the truth, and that calls for prayer.

Catholics should be praying for the conversion of all sinners – including ourselves and those still guilty of original sin.

TEPO, Thanks for your comments. Please note that you have good understanding of religion. I love all faiths. The catholics are very good people. But i do not know the inner practical side of the Catholics. However I know that they are lovely people because they love God and the prophets.

In another post you have blamed Quran about calling Christians as dogs and pigs. That is true. But it is not for all christians. That is only for those who bite and they have the habits of dogs and pigs. Islam is very liberal for the people of the books. It does not call all of them as Kafir.

Also remember that jesus also abused his people as vipers and sons of vipers and evil generation and also as rotten graves. Those graves which are shining from outside but inside is all rotten bad smelling bones. That is a way of saying things.

There is no original sin. God forgave Adam and Eve for what they did. After that there was no sin left. I do not believe that a new born baby is a sinner.

Now i point to you a verse from the Quran, 2:62. It goes like this:

" Surely, those who are Muslims (believers) and those who are Jews and christians and people of all other faiths who believe in God/ Allah/ Yahweh and they believe in the accountability of the last day and they DO GOOD DEEDS, for them will be no fear nor will they grieve". (That means they will have no fear of anything of the future no grief of anything of the past.)

Please read the above carefully. It accommodates the good Jews and the christians very well.

 

[Steven_John]

I never said that the God of Israel wasn’t the God of Abraham. But Allah is not that God of Israel is what I am saying.

I understand what you are saying read my posts by profession they are seeking the same god. The G-d of Abraham (pbuh) is my G-d. but my understanding is different to Abraham (pbuh) that does not chang who G-d was, is and will be.

And before the Muslims started pushing their Allah on us, they are the ones that started this ‘Abrahamic’ preface to Allah and Islam. None of it is true. If you read their stuff you would know this.

This thread is not about “Muslims started pushing their Allah on us” thats what you are making it about.

Ironic that you are so willing to agree with them even if you haven’t read their stuff but you argue with me.

lets do it again please quote me?

All I am saying is to read.

I respect that maybe all you want to say but you have said much more.

And if you did there are some really glaring differences with Allah and YHWH.

Have and will do more not being native arabic speaker i have real trouble with the Quran, i assume from your study you are fluent in Arabic. And again and again yest they have a different view of G-d, as is yours to others.

Ironic too is that none of the names of Allah are YHWH, or Father.

Done it in lots of threads, the 99 names are attributes if you say they are bad then say they are bad. They are not in hebrew so a scholar such as your self would not expect His proper name. Considering the 99 attributes would you consider some of them to be good attributes for a father?

And I already talked about spnxxxx’s point about the Angel Gabriel

Br Steve is a professing Catholic. Catholics acknowledge that Muslims aspire to the same G-d as they do.

and the mixed message that you think is ok if you buy into Islam.

No my sharing is not a call for Catholics to convert t the Islamic religion as you assert that is what you keep clinging to.

Or even the part that directly goes against God being a liar to us.

No i don to see my G-d as a liar, if i did i would have been happy for you to lie about me.

I feel like I am discussing with someone who is covering their ears and saying lalalalala… oh, and don’t forget all the love-dove stuff.

Maybe that is because you have not listened but stayed in your own track. There have been lots of posts that state need for truth, i think on page one that was covered but it seems to be a real issue for you.

Do you think that by saying all that love-dove stuff then ignoring what the Bible says, and what Islam’s stuff says, is ok?

Lets do it agian quote me, where did i say ignore the bible?

Here is my challenge,
i aspire to walk in the way of Jesus, he ate with sinners and encouraged goodness.
I am respected in the Islamic community some seek council with me. This is an opportunity for Jesus teaching to speak into their lives.
I have been witness to discussion that became argument, when i ask them about bible teaching saying “does Allah not want us to…” they always bent to Yeshua (pbwh) teaching.

I am here to serve you but Brother i do tire of this.

I have made a fair effort in accounting to you in our off topic posts.

My Challenge to you is, share with us your Christ call work with Muslims?

Tell us how you are getting you Muslim community to bend their knee at the words of Jesus?
So i can learn to do better.

 

[qwerk]

For what its worth i have the same feelings when i listen to what some here have experienced or i look at the television.

I dont fear the Islamic community where i live any more, i know them and they are for the most part very nice.

I used to have real fear big and deep of Islam until the first time i prayed with them, i nearly messed my pants with fear. I was the only one from our parish who actually showed up. A group of huge smelly men form different countries squeezed in close gibbering away in another language.
At out parish people spread out and we dont use latin any more and I can near understand english.

I was trembling feeling like a little lamb among huge wolfs.
Images of TV be headings and fighting were flashing in my mind.

I became sure they were going to sacrifice me, i am embarrassed to share with you my head went this way but it did.

What has fear to do with criticizing Islam? What does compassion have to do with criticizing Islam? To give a wrong view of Islam is not wise. You are just becoming a dhimmi before your country has officially submitted to it. Giving the wrong information to others about Islam is just playing into their agenda. The way I see it you have been made aware of the information that you need to seek out and to give out wrong information because of some lovey-dovey idea of Islam is not wise.

Getting along with those difficult Musilms was hard to do? Why? What did you have to sacrifice of yourself to eventually get along? Did they sacrifice, anything? In Islam toleration only works one way - their way.

I am not advocating being fearful, I am advocating knowledge and not passing on incorrect information about Islam. To pass on incorrect information in regards to people’s souls is against the Bible as I have been trying to show you.

Let me tell you about fear. I stood up before people like you and tell the truth and many got upset, many rejected what I had to say. I figured that would happen and to my surprise many actually agreed with me and was happy I came to give them the presentation. Two days later, these same people were confronted with one of their own saying the same thing to them with the only difference is that they realized that what I said was true and there are Jews being attacked on campuses, being not only physically attacked but forced to give up their free speech rights while the Muslims certainly think they are the only ones who have the right to free speech. And they feel they have the right to physically attack others just because they are Jews. We see in Africa, the Middle East, India, that it doesn’t stop with the Jews. Jews are fleeing countries such as Sweden because of Islamic persecution. This is happening in other European countries too.

The, lo and behold, even though it was a difficult time I found that many came to me and thanked me. Now these same people and I are going through letter campaigns to these Universities because the Muslims think that (I will not go into details because of this forum) voting to hate Israel, or to disrupt other’s free speech rights, or to attack people just because they are Jews, is the correct way to behave.

As for fear, Matthew Chapt 5: 10-12
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Subjugation I got this link from someone else’s posts on CAF.

I made a comment about working with a few Muslims and you are surprised that I said that they are ok. This is part of the problem with this whole discussion. From my impressions of what you are writing, you are unable to separate the person from the ideology. When you learn that maybe your discussions will go to a different level. People are people and there are good and bad in all societies and all social levels.