"Catholics hate the Bible!". Sorry, I forgot

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Good. That’s what I expect to hear and you are right. I agree with all you said.

So what is your objection then?

Another thing, they were alive. And so are the saints. And they are with Jesus. They are not dead.
 
According to scripture, even us who are alive and believe in Christ we are also saints.
 
And saints are not praying for us because they do not know what is happening here on earth but thanks be to GOD we have an advocate who is still interceding for us and that is Jesus Christ and here on earth we have the Holy Spirit who leads us in all truth/ righteousness John 16:13
 
Tess said:
And saints are not praying for us because they do not know what is happening here on earth
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You are indeed correct that those on Earth are also saints!

I wonder then how you would interpret Revelations 5:8 where in the saints in heaven bring the prayers of the saints on earth to God. And Rev 8: 3-4 where in Angels do the same.

While it is absolutely true that Jesus is the great mediator, I wonder if you then disagree with 1Tim 2:1-4 and James 5:16-17 wherein we are entreated to pray for each other?

And, if we are indeed justified in praying for each other, and if indeed the prayers of the righteous prevail much, I wonder why you’d think those who are sanctified and in heaven wouldn’t pray for us when asked (especially in light of Rev 5:8 where the Bible says the saints in heaven bring the prayers of the saints on earth to God)?
 
Tess said:
If you give a scripture that talks about heaven’s queen, then I will re-convert to catholism
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Give a scripture that talks about heaven’s king and then on the grounds you require, you can reject heaven’s queen. They are both, King of Heaven and Queen of Heaven known to you from the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church.
 
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Tess said:
And saints are not praying for us because they do not know what is happening here on earth but thanks be to GOD we have an advocate who is still interceding for us and that is Jesus Christ and here on earth we have the Holy Spirit who leads us in all truth/ righteousness John 16:13
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Can’t you see what you are doing? You have admitted that the saints are with Jesus, (yes, I am not talking about the saints on earth, but those departed from earth), and they are alive. They talk about us (Gospel mentioned about Abraham doing that), they are with Jesus - everything is set for them to pray for us if we ask them, then you said they are not praying for us.

We ask our friends, our pastors to pray for us. Similarly if the saints are alive and they are with Jesus, and they appeared with Jesus before the apostles, don’t you think it is unreasonable that they would not pray for us?

I can only think when you said that they don’t pray for us, is because this is essentially a Catholic spirituality and you cannot admit it, not that it is not logical. Think about it.
 
Whatever is said about Jesus being the mediator and the Holy Spirit being the Advocate, all these do not negate the fact that the saints can pray for us like we ask our friends to pray for us, because they are not dead but alive with Jesus forever more, and we are one family of God.
 
Tess said:
And saints are not praying for us because they do not know what is happening here on earth
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Where does the Bible say the saints don’t know what’s happening here on earth? Who are the “cloud of witnesses” by which Hebrews says we are surrounded?
 
Tess3h Dlee
Here we are talking about God’s kingdom. Somethings do no need theology. You just have to leave them the way they are.

There is no where in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation where they talk about Heaven having a queen. The only people they talk about are the ministering angels talked about in Psalms, Cherubins and seraphins, the 4 living creatures and the saints and a saint is anyone who is in Christ. Born of water (baptism by immersion) and born of the Holy Spirit

If you give a scripture that talks about heaven’s queen, then I will re-convert to catholism

“Re-convert”…there is no such thing…“if” you were baptized in the Catholic church…“in the name of the Father…the Son…and The Holy Spirit”.then you are Catholic…“if” that is the case and you have decided to deny that baptism with the authority given by Christ to his church…then you must be regarded as a heretic…I can guess as a former Pentecostal that with your reference to “baptism by immersion and born of the Holy Spirit” that you are attending a Pentecostal / non denominational Protestant church…or at worst…a JW or SDA church…“if” either of these things is true then you would now…(as a still validly baptized Catholic) have knowingly rejected the words of Jesus Christ John 6:53 “unless you eat my body and drink my blood you have no life in you”…and yet many of his followers left him because they found that to hard to believe…and did he try to stop them…no…because he said what he meant…literally…and you say that “somethings do not need theology…you just have to leave them the way they are”…so by whose authority do you deny the words of Jesus Christ…or his church to which he gave his authority…is it your own “bible alone” authority,or do you just skip those verses because they don’t fit with your anti -Catholic bias
 
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Tess said:
And saints are not praying for us because they do not know what is happening here on earth
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That is not correct. Revelation 5:8 shows the saints in heaven offering the prayers of the living, in the form of incense, before the Throne of God. Look at what John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist church, a protestant, has to say about this passage:
…And golden vials - Cups or censers. Full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints - Not of the elders themselves, but of the other saints still upon earth, whose prayers were thus emblematically represented in heaven.
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A passage from 2 Maccabees 15:12-16 shows us the saints in heaven, in this case the prophets Jeremias and Onias, are praying for and interceding for the Jewish people, in a vision that was granted to Judas Maccabeus:
12 In his vision, Judas saw Onias, who had been high priest and was virtuous, good, modest in all things, gentle of manners, and well-spoken. From childhood he had learned all things that properly belong to a good moral life. This man had his hands extended to pray for the entire nation of the Jews. 13 Then in the same manner, another man, noteworthy for his gray hair and dignity, appeared with astonishing and splendid glory. 14 Onias said, “This man is one who loves his brothers and sisters and prays many prayers for the people and the holy city: God’s prophet Jeremiah.”

15 Jeremiah extended his strong hand and gave to Judas a gold sword, saying, 16 “Take this holy sword as a gift from God, and with it you will destroy your enemies.”
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None of this would be possible if the saints in heaven were oblivious to our concerns here on earth.
 
1 Timothy 6:15
which He will bring about at the proper time–He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords…

Revelation 17:14

“These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

Revelation 19:11-16
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood–
 
The Seventh Seal and the Golden Censer

8 When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. 3 And another angel came and stood wat the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, 4 and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. 5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings,1 flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

Its not the saints who were offering the prayers, its the angel who had the prayers of the saints on earth and he was offering them to God
 
Hebrews 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

It refers to the Bible in the Bible that walked the walk of faith they they finished the race like Rahab, Abraham, Moses, David, Gideon…

We are supposed to draw encouragement from those People who had faith in God knowing that we are not alone in this journey of salvation and that it is not an impossible journey and that is why scripture continues to say;

Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
 
You gaven’t explained why we shouldn’t accept that those referred to as witnesses are just that. The Bible does not support your claim that the saints don’t know what’s happening here.
 
I’ve had it said to me as well, from Protestant friends. To me, it’s unfounded but some people think we rely too heavily on tradition. Something I completely disagree with.
 
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