T
Tigg
Guest
If you re-read the entire post (s), you will see we are speaking about the mission of the Church which has an obligation to promulgate truth - the rejection or acceptance of that truth is not the issue.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
E
edwest2
Guest
Rich, what did Paul tell the people in the Bible? “If Christ is not risen then your faith is in vain. Ye are still in your sins.” Something actually had to happen to Rich. The birth, death and resurrection of Jesus, it had to actually happen or your faith, and my faith, is in vain.The Church’s mission is mostly irrelevant to those who are not believers. You and I accept what the Church teaches out of faith. Whether it is objectively true doesn’t matter. I accept the Church and its teaching because I submit to its authority out of faith and belief, not from anything empirically provable.
Pope Benedict has canonized a few people recently. The requirement for canonization (among other things) is two miracles attributed to their intercession. Two actual events. It may take years, but the Congregation for the Causes of Saints will do the research, collect documents, talk to doctors and any other witnesses.
Do you believe you will be judged by the living Jesus Christ?
Right now, the world mocks the Church partly because it fears the reality of miracles and has turned its worship toward men called scientists.
God bless,
Ed
S
StAnastasia
Guest
That’s not necessarily true. Killing Hitler to save millions of Jews can be rationalized, although you might still argue that it’s immoral.Then apparently you also reject the teaching that “the end does not justify the means,” or believe that immoral, unethical and unjust acts can be rationalized.
S
StTommyMore
Guest
such situations do not existThat is a wonderful academic exercise. But, I’ve yet to meet the priest who looked into a young husband’s eyes and told him both his wife and unborn baby must die for him to be faithful to the Church.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
The truth you speak of is the truth as understood by the Church, which makes it binding on those who accept the Church. Non-believers are no obligation to accept it either as truth or as binding on them. That only follows.Please read what you wrote!
Non-believers may think it irrelevant and reject truth by virtue of their free will, but that in no way detracts from the purpose of the Church, whose sole mission as commissioned by Christ is the salvation of souls.
Also, there is nothing irregular in what the Church sees as its purpose. As a Catholic, I agree that the Church was commissioned by Christ to proselytize the entire world.
S
StAnastasia
Guest
Your evidence for this claim is what?such situations do not exist
S
StTommyMore
Guest
lack of it ever happening. To prove me wrong, all you have to do is give me a single documented case.Your evidence for this claim is what?
S
StevieD
Guest
Getting back to the point which was: ‘Catholics in the US overwhelmingly support homosexual unions’.
No they don’t because such people are not Catholics. Many people will give their religion as Catholic to a pollster when they haven’t seen the inside of a church since they went to cousin Lucy’s wedding fifteen years ago and not for ten years before that. The others, those who actually think that they are Catholic and hold such views are under a misapprehension, they are not Catholics, because if they were they would accept the Church’s clear teaching on sexual morality. Thank God the Church isn’t a democracy and is never going to be one.
No they don’t because such people are not Catholics. Many people will give their religion as Catholic to a pollster when they haven’t seen the inside of a church since they went to cousin Lucy’s wedding fifteen years ago and not for ten years before that. The others, those who actually think that they are Catholic and hold such views are under a misapprehension, they are not Catholics, because if they were they would accept the Church’s clear teaching on sexual morality. Thank God the Church isn’t a democracy and is never going to be one.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
You and I accept what the Church teaches. That’s what makes us believing Catholics. But, consider that it is only by our faith that we can believe in the Resurrection and Ascension. And, in accepting that, we can believe that Jesus redeemed us. Others would consider that nonsensical.Rich, what did Paul tell the people in the Bible? “If Christ is not risen then your faith is in vain. Ye are still in your sins.” Something actually had to happen to Rich. The birth, death and resurrection of Jesus, it had to actually happen or your faith, and my faith, is in vain.
E
estesbob
Guest
Catholics have just as much right to try to make their moral views law as does anyone else in the country. A good start is for Catholics to quit ceding the political field to those who are immoral or amoral. We see way too much of Catholics claiming we have no right to oppose homosexual marriage as it’s a religious issue.It may do so and ought to do so with the expectation of making that position binding on Catholics. The Catholic Church can’t expect anyone else to do more than listen and consider its position on gay marriage, and possibly be persuaded.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
You are wrong - entirely. The Catholic Church considers every person baptized as a Catholic to be a Catholic. Period. And, that is regardless if the person is in the state of grace or not.No they don’t because such people are not Catholics. Many people will give their religion as Catholic to a pollster when they haven’t seen the inside of a church since they went to cousin Lucy’s wedding fifteen years ago and not for ten years before that.
Not you, not I, not other laymen can declare a baptized Catholic to be other than a Catholic.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
The Church cannot by edict demand or force others to accept our beliefs regarding homosexual marriage. But, the Church has the right to and should make the case for our moral views about that issue.Catholics have just as much right to try to make their moral views law as does anyone else in the country. A good start is for Catholics to quit ceding the political field to those who are immoral or amoral. We see way too much of Catholics claiming we have no right to oppose homosexual marriage as it’s a religious issue.
E
estesbob
Guest
Of course we can. We had the exact same rights to have our views on homosexual marriage enshrined as law as does any other group in the country. We should not cede the political arena to those who would tear down the moral culture of our country. We should not sit back and let the immoral minority enshrine homosexual marriage as a law the land.The Church cannot by edict demand or force others to accept our beliefs regarding homosexual marriage. But, the Church has the right to and should make the case for our moral views about that issue.
E
estesbob
Guest
Semantics games. We see way too much of that in CAF-people who claim to be Catholic only because they somehow feel that gives them more credibility to undermine the teachings of the church. I judge people by their actions . The fact that somebody may technically be Catholic is totally irrelevant in a discussion about whether a majority of Catholics really do support homosexual marriage,You are wrong - entirely. The Catholic Church considers every person baptized as a Catholic to be a Catholic. Period. Bd. And, that is regardless if the person is in the state of grace or not.
Not you, not I, not other laymen can declare a baptized Catholic to be other than a Catholic.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Not a semantic game as the Church sees it. We do better to accept Church definitions than our own, which can carry some prejudices with them.Semantics games.
B
buffalo
Guest
Right on - I want a moral country guided by the 10 Commandments and the teachings of Jesus. I want the US to continue with its Judeo Christian roots.Of course we can. We had the exact same rights to have our views on homosexual marriage enshrined as law as does any other group in the country. We should not cede the political arena to those who would tear down the moral culture of our country. We should not sit back and let the immoral minority enshrine homosexual marriage as a law the land.
and I vote.
E
edwest2
Guest
In the late 1960s, when ‘alternative lifestyles’ began to be actively promoted by a group calling itself Hippies, what did their parents say? “Why are you living with your girlfriend? Why are you using illegal drugs?” The reply. “Leave me alone. I’m an adult. I’ll do what I want.”
These people began by believing a simple slogan: “Don’t trust anyone over 30.” Mom, dad, priests, nuns were right out. “Honor thy father and mother.” Nope. Not anymore. And for years I read articles where experts talked about children being independent from their parents. How parents had no right to interfere. Interfere? With what? The lives of their own children? Movies that showed parents as irritants and unwelcome guests. And magazine cover photos of young women in skimpy outfits. I thought: “Does her mother know about this?” Apparently. And her mom doesn’t care either.
With this issue, it was: “Leave us alone.” It was about privacy. Not anymore. It’s about something called marriage but it can’t really be marriage since a man and a woman are not two men or two women. And why did this appear at the bollot box? Who needs my approval to do whatever they want? I didn’t dream this up.
And there are more slogans, like ‘get the government out of the marriage business.’ How about getting that same government out of the promoting homosexuality in schools business? All those gay storybooks didn’t appear in classrooms by themselves.
Once again, people around the world are doing whatever they want in the privacy of wherever they live right now. They don’t need the approval of Catholics.
God bless,
Ed
These people began by believing a simple slogan: “Don’t trust anyone over 30.” Mom, dad, priests, nuns were right out. “Honor thy father and mother.” Nope. Not anymore. And for years I read articles where experts talked about children being independent from their parents. How parents had no right to interfere. Interfere? With what? The lives of their own children? Movies that showed parents as irritants and unwelcome guests. And magazine cover photos of young women in skimpy outfits. I thought: “Does her mother know about this?” Apparently. And her mom doesn’t care either.
With this issue, it was: “Leave us alone.” It was about privacy. Not anymore. It’s about something called marriage but it can’t really be marriage since a man and a woman are not two men or two women. And why did this appear at the bollot box? Who needs my approval to do whatever they want? I didn’t dream this up.
And there are more slogans, like ‘get the government out of the marriage business.’ How about getting that same government out of the promoting homosexuality in schools business? All those gay storybooks didn’t appear in classrooms by themselves.
Once again, people around the world are doing whatever they want in the privacy of wherever they live right now. They don’t need the approval of Catholics.
God bless,
Ed
L
larkin31
Guest
Like what laws, other than abortion and gay marriage? (these are already well-covered here).Catholics have just as much right to try to make their moral views law as does anyone else in the country. A good start is for Catholics to quit ceding the political field to those who are immoral or amoral. We see way too much of Catholics claiming we have no right to oppose homosexual marriage as it’s a religious issue.
Are you for outlawing divorce? For outlawing the death penalty? For mandating tithing to the Church? For usury laws? For dietary laws? For keeping the Sabbath holy?
Just curious what, specifically, you mean.
Oh, and like Rich said, sinning Catholics are still Catholic. They are just not in a state of grace if they are unrepentant. Right? I don’t see how one can call someone baptized Catholic and observant of Catholic sacraments and accepting of the RCC hierarchy and legitimacy of claim back to Peter as “not Catholic” because they disagree on gay marriage. Does the RCC actively seek to cast these types of people out as heretics?
S
StAnastasia
Guest
LGBTQQIA = Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex and Allies.such situations do not exist
On October 20th, 2010, we will wear purple in honor of the several young adults who committed suicide in recent weeks/months/years due to homophobic abuse in their homes and at their schools. Purple represents Spirit on the LGBTQ flag and that’s exactly what we’d like all of you to have with you: spirit. Please know that times will get better and that you will meet people who will love you and respect you for who you are, no matter your sexuality. Please wear purple on October 20th. Tell your friends, family, co-workers, neighbors and schools.
D
Dale_M
Guest
Its a reasonable suggestion, but Oct. 20th is today, so there isn’t much time for taking action. Heck, in most parts of the world, the day is well underway.Please wear purple on October 20th. Tell your friends, family, co-workers, neighbors and schools.
Still, if you don’t own any purple (as I don’t), you can show support by other means such as turning to purple your Facebook page or your Twitter profile.
glaad.org/spiritday
BTW: I am not sure who is behind Spirit Day, the link I cited was a random one grabbed from a quickie Google search.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.