Catholics need to submit themselves to Allah

[Reuben_J]

You should read this as well The Satanic Verses in Islamic History. This article tells about the three daughters of that pagan moon god allah. The article described it as the satanic verse in the quran.

Uh oh. I wouldn’t go into that. Somebody might get paranoid hysteria.

 

[LutheranDK]

Allah is the name of the muslim god (I disagree with LutheranDK on this point). Proof - the English translation :

“There is no god but allah”

Why isn’t this “There is no god but god” ???

That is not proof at all, and to claim so is ridiculous!
1: As far as I know, there are MANY English translations of the koran, some of which say “Allah”, some “God”

Now, the reason for using the Arabic word “Allah” might be that unlike the English word “God”, there is no way that “Allah” can be conjugated into plural form like God can. There is therefore a theological point in using Allah.

I would say that the fact that Arabic (and Turkish and Indonesian and Pakistani and…) Christians use the word “Allah” proves MY point - that Allah is not God’s name in islam, but simply MEANS “God” (which a Turkish acquaintance (typo?) of mine also confirmed…)

But, using your own logic, I could claim that because the Danish translation (or rather: one of them. I can’t remember the other one) of the koran uses the word “Gud” and not “Allah”, then it means that “Allah” is not the name of islam’s false god.
It would be a logical fallacy as big as yours, but if it takes one to expose one, so be it…

I realise that many people in Islamic majority countries use this word instead of “God”, not referring to the islamic allah, but to YHWH.

LOL - would you have Arabic, Indonesian, Turkish, etc, Christians use the English word “God” instead of the only word their language has? What arrogance…

Benjamin808 : It is clear from the title that you are a muslim not a Catholic as you claim on your profile. The word “submit” sort of gave it away

We as Christians can be said to be the REAL “muslims” in that WE are the ones who have submitted to God - and not those that worship a false deity that some Arabic merchant made up 1400 years ago.
Now calling someone “not a christian” because he thinks something you disagree with is not very charitable. It is the methodology of Jack Chick.

/LDK

 

[LutheranDK]

Saying that Muslims worship the moon god is like a non-christian saying we christians belive Jesus is the reincarnation of Mirtha. Come on man, let us put the conspiracy theories to the side, and face the facts. Muslims believe in the One God we do. They might not worship the way He wants them to, but that is their problem.

I don’t know what God you believe in, but I believe in the One, True Triune God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit, from eternity to eternity. None of these three Divine Persons (who are One divine Being) have a beginning, or an end.

The Muslims believe in One “god” as well, but not the One, True Triune God. To claim that they worship the same God as we Christians do, is therefore to blaspheme against God…

 

[LutheranDK]

even though I agree with most of what you said, but I do have to disagree that Muhammed didnt make up no god. He just used Gods name for his selfish reasons, thats all.

He DID make up a “god” and I’m stunned that you’re unable to see this!
Now, let’s look at this logically, shall we?

Premise one: There is only One, True, Triune God.

If this premise is accepted, then it follows that all systems of belief that do not acknowledge this are false.

Premise two: The One, True, Triune God cannot be decietful (typo?)

Sub-conclusion: No false system of belief can have their origins with this God.

Premise three: What does not have its origins from the One, True, Triune God must come from either man or demons*

Conclusion: Islam (which denies the Triunity of God) must come from either man or demons**

So that is basically the choice: Is islam, and the “god” it worships, from man or from demons? My own guess is: Both.

• = provided that the existence of both these latter groups of beings are accepted…

** = of course, this line of reasoning is only valid if you accept the premises. An atheist, for instance, would not accept premises one and two.

 

[LutheranDK]

Actually it is neccessary to fully grasp the mystery of the Trininty in order to say Muslims don`t worship the same God.

It is not, and I would like you to prove otherwise.

Jesus said not everyone who says lord lord unto me will enter My Kingdom, but the one that does the will of my Father.

Indeed, but I do not see your point here?

There is SO MUCH mystery in the concept of God, that our limited minds will never truly understand what and who God is.

Indeed. Again, I do not see your point.

So if Muslims confess to themselves that there is only one God, and that God is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus then yes…they believe in the same God.

Ah. So if someone say that they believe in capitalism, but they believe that it means that the State should own all property, that everyone should get the same paycheck regardless of what they do, etc, then that would still be capitalism they believed in, and not communism?

Therefore only because someone denies the Son, dosent mean they fully reject His Father for even you yourself cant explain to nobody what the Holy Trininty is.

First of all: Jesus disagrees with you there. He constantly links people’s relationship and acceptance/rejection of the Father with their relationship to and acceptance/rejection of Him.

Secondly: The fact that no one can FULLY explain the Trinity (although there have been some outstanding theologians down through the last two millenia who’ve done a good job) does not have as a consequence that those who reject the Son does not reject the Father. It simply does not.

This also means their doctrine does indeed matter.

Ermm…I’m not really sure what you’re aiming at here? Yes, their doctrine DOES matter. If they were to acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God, but stick with the rest of the koran, they would become something akin to Ebionites. But still heretics, outside of the camp of Christendom.

 

[LutheranDK]

Then I guess Jews don’t worship the same god as the Roman Catholics

Rabbinical Jews? Certainly not. Messianic Jews? Certainly they do!

nor did Moses, Abraham, Adam, …

They did. But God had not fully revealed Himself to them. That happened in Christ. They could not profess belief in the Triune God, because God had not made this part of His nature known to them.

 

[LutheranDK]

We do not say God is a deciever, or that predestination is part of Christianity and Judaism.

Not Judaism, but Predestination is certainly part of Christianity. DOUBLE Predestination, however, is not…

 

[LutheranDK]

By their fruit you shall know them. The fruit of islam is butchery, subjugation, misogyny, etc. This is the worship of satan, not God. No matter what name they choose to give him.

Some “advocatus diaboli” might say the same thing about the RCC and point to its history. And it would not be ENTIRELY (but MOSTLY!!!) without merit

 

[chrisse]

That is not proof at all, and to claim so is ridiculous!
1: As far as I know, there are MANY English translations of the koran, some of which say “Allah”, some “God”

Now, the reason for using the Arabic word “Allah” might be that unlike the English word “God”, there is no way that “Allah” can be conjugated into plural form like God can. There is therefore a theological point in using Allah.

I would say that the fact that Arabic (and Turkish and Indonesian and Pakistani and…) Christians use the word “Allah” proves MY point - that Allah is not God’s name in islam, but simply MEANS “God” (which a Turkish acquaintance (typo?) of mine also confirmed…)

But, using your own logic, I could claim that because the Danish translation (or rather: one of them. I can’t remember the other one) of the koran uses the word “Gud” and not “Allah”, then it means that “Allah” is not the name of islam’s false god.
It would be a logical fallacy as big as yours, but if it takes one to expose one, so be it…

LOL - would you have Arabic, Indonesian, Turkish, etc, Christians use the English word “God” instead of the only word their language has? What arrogance…

We as Christians can be said to be the REAL “muslims” in that WE are the ones who have submitted to God - and not those that worship a false deity that some Arabic merchant made up 1400 years ago.
Now calling someone “not a christian” because he thinks something you disagree with is not very charitable. It is the methodology of Jack Chick.

/LDK

How sad, LutheranDK. You ignore the hundreds of years of subjugation of these people and the forced use of islamic terms.

Simply, allah is the NAME of an ancient pagan god in the area of what is now Saudi Arabia. Allah, a pagan god’s name. Aphrodite is a pagan god’s name. One of the pagan god allah’s daughters was the area’s name for Aphrodite.

Now using your argument. Mohammet chose “Aphrodite” as the name of his centralised creator god instead of “Allah”. It is clear that you are wrong. Many things come into the common lexicon, not because they are true, but because it becomes (forcefully in islam’s case) popular.

Another example. The word “gay”. These days you have to be very careful, possibly choose another word, when you describe someone as gay, wouldn’t you agree?

On this issue of allah, though, we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree.

God bless.

 

[LutheranDK]

// i will NOT submit to satan, i mean allah nor will i worship satan, i mean allah!!! NEVER!!!

// may God bless you!

So when you say you will not submit to “allah”, I’m sure you mean the “allah” the muslims worship, and not Allah, Who we Christians worship?

 

[LUISV]

why do some people keep sayings things like Allah is not God. Did you not know that Allah is jut another name for God? Even Jesus calls His Father Allah in various Bibles in a different language. I dont get when Catholics on this site keep stating Allah is not God. I can comprehend why a lot of you are unwilling to justify Mohammeds actions, but saying that Muslims worship another God is just bogus to me. Even John Paull II said we all worship the **same** God in front of a Muslim crowd. So whats the deal with that? Only Because Mohammed used the name of Allah to get away with sinful acts, dosent mean other peacful Moslems do the same. They just dont know better. They are Moslems because they have been brought up that way.

I am basically saying that Jews and Muslims worship the Father of Jesus, and I don`t think its fair for anybody else to deny that.

May God Bless all of you.

Hi,
I don’t understand the title of your post. We do submit ourselves to Allah. I need not follow the Qu’ran or the teachings of Mohammed to submit to the Lord. As I’ve posted before, Islam offers nothing new. The social structure of Sharia is not culturaly compatible with me and un necessary for the practice of my sacramental Catholic faith. But I don’t begrudge you for being Moslem. I may not agree with how you worship, I do agree that Allah is another name for the Holy Trinity.

 

[chrisse]

Some “advocatus diaboli” might say the same thing about the RCC and point to its history. And it would not be ENTIRELY (but MOSTLY!!!) without merit

Let’s move that topic to another area, LUTHERan. Do you really want the history of the protesters brought up here?

 

[LutheranDK]

okay then, at least we can say what God dicated in other scripture is also in the Koran.

No, parts of what God dictated is also in the koran…

 

[chrisse]

Not Judaism, but Predestination is certainly part of Christianity. DOUBLE Predestination, however, is not…

Doh, Lutheran. You’re on a Catholic Christian forum. Foreknowledge, not predestination. Again, a topic for another area.

 

[LutheranDK]

Let’s move that topic to another area, LUTHERan. Do you really want the history of the protesters brought up here?

Both of us could find filth to use against the other, ROMAN Catholic… Don’t think your bullying tone intimidates me. It rather displays the weakness of your position…

 

[chrisse]

… But I can however simply give evidence I am not a muslim, very easy.

I’m a martian, and I can prove it. No offence, but proving a cyber person is rather difficult. I’ll go with you being a Catholic, but have concerns for your soul.

God bless.

 

[chrisse]

Both of us could find filth to use against the other, ROMAN Catholic… Don’t think your bullying tone intimidates me. It rather displays the weakness of your position…

I’m a Catholic, “Roman Catholic” was a term forced by the protesters.

No, I’m not bullying you, and apologise if that was the tone you received, it was not my intent. Simply, that’s not the topic here. Maybe you should start one?

God bless.

 

[Cluny]

Muslims need to submit themselves to Jesus!

 

[LutheranDK]

How sad, LutheranDK. You ignore the hundreds of years of subjugation of these people and the forced use of islamic terms.

LOL
Yeah, that’s exactly what I do…I didn’t know it myself, but that’s what I do. Because some stranger on an internet forum who have absolutely no clue on the degree of knowledge I have of history, knows better than I do what I ignore and what I take into account

Simply, allah is the NAME of an ancient pagan god in the area of what is now Saudi Arabia. Allah, a pagan god’s name. Aphrodite is a pagan god’s name. One of the pagan god allah’s daughters was the area’s name for Aphrodite.

I know this. Your point please…

Now using your argument. Mohammet chose “Aphrodite” as the name of his centralised creator god instead of “Allah”. It is clear that you are wrong.

How on Earth does THAT follow from my argument???
If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But please use genuine arguments to try to convince me of it.

Many things come into the common lexicon, not because they are true, but because it becomes (forcefully in islam’s case) popular.

So who defines what usage of a word is “true”?

• Should the second person singular and plural in English “you” be substituted for its older equivalent “thou?”, because “you” used to refer be used the way “thou” is today, while “thou” was used the way “you” is today?
  (did ya follow?)
• Should all English-speaking people everywhere start learning Old English, and how should this be accomplished, with virtually all source material “contaminated” by foreign influce, particularly from Scandinavia and Normandy.

Another example. The word “gay”. These days you have to be very careful, possibly choose another word, when you describe someone as gay, wouldn’t you agree?

Indeed. That only shows that the meaning of this word has evolved through time to mean something it did not originally mean. I fail to see how this supports your position, though?

On this issue of allah, though, we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree.

That would probably be best, yes.

God bless.

And you.

 

[LutheranDK]

Muslims need to submit themselves to Jesus!

Indeed!