Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

[goofyjim]

How many threads to you see where people claimed fornication and adultery are perfectly okay? How many adultery pride parades do you see?

The reason there are so many threads on on homosexuality is because there are so many people who claim it is not sinful. We just don’t see that wih adultery.

We don’t see it with adultery?! Are you blind? With all the divorces and remarriages going on that is their parade. Why don’t we start picking on what they are as well.

 

[estesbob]

We don’t see it with adultery?! Are you blind? With all the divorces and remarriages going on that is their parade. Why don’t we start picking on what they are as well.

Show me one thread based on the contention that adultery is not sinful. Show be a thread where people are claiming adultery is merely an expression of love.

Go and start a thread on adultery. It will quickly end as people will quicly agree it is sinful behavior and people should not engage in it.

 

[goofyjim]

Show me one thread based on the contention that adultery is not sinful. Show be a thread where people are claiming adultery is merely an expression of love.

Go and start a thread on adultery. It will quickly end as people will quicly agree it is sinful behavior and people should not engage in it.

Except those that are divorced and remarried which is adultery. They might very well chime in and say it is impossible as well to live celibately after divorce. I wish you could remember that I do agree with the sinfulness of homosexual acts. I don’t agree with the sinfulness of homosexuality as a condition.

 

[IrishJoe]

I hate all sinfull actions. Homosexual relations are a mortal sin. To commit a mortal sin removes one from God and His Church, and should they not repent and confess their sin they will remain seperated from God for all eternity in Hell.

The sin of Sodom is so severe that it is one of the four Sins that Cry Out to Heaven for Vengence, along with willful murder, oppression of the poor and defrauding laborers of their wages.

to be a mortal sin mustn’t they know before hand ? And aren’t there conditions.

God and sins aren’t black and white you know.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I am not straying from the topic of the thread. I am simply stating that homosexual acts are no more grave than any sexual acts outside of marriage. I am entitled to that opinion.

Well said ​

Adultery & fornication are mentioned very often in the Bible - & as there are thousands of millions of Christians, it is far more likely that Christians will get up to those activities, than that they will practice homosexual acts. So talk of those two things is likely to be uncomfortably close to the sorts of temptations heterosexual Christians have.

So attacking homosexuals can be a very useful diversion from talk of the sins most of us are likely to commit.

It’s hard to see that homosexual acts are any worse than a good many other sins - such as lying. If anything, lying is arguably far worse, because it is the perversion of a spiritual endowment, whereas even animals have bodies of flesh & blood, so it is less unnatural to commit sins that are proper to our bodiliness.

Homosexuality has a “yuk factor”, granted - but how is lying, which is a satanic act, any less revolting ? The devil is a spirit - not a bodily being. Lying seems a comparatively trivial matter only because it is extemely common; that doesn’t make it any less diabolical. If half as much energy were spent on denouncing this devilish sin of lying, Churches & Christians might be a good deal happier & a good deal more effective.

As for hating sin - what good is that ? A drug addict may loathe his addiction, & himself - that’s not going to free him. Hate by itself is completely negative & destructive - if it’s not integrated into love of something positive, its tyrannical hold over us will never be broken. Disgust with self is not repentance, so it does not give life Hating sins never yet made a Saint - only the Love of God to us, in us, & from us does that. Neither can disgust with others help them - Christ got down with us in our filthiness & falseness: He does not stand in safety on the sidelines, offering useless advice or empty pieties; He gets down into us by His Spirit, & gets His hands dirty.

 

[twosweetgirls]

I voted “yes”. . . but I also hate the sinful things I do (profane God’s Name, sin when my husband doesn’t want to complete the marital act, etc.).

 

[agangbern]

Originally Posted by agangbern View Post
Yes, we are all sinners. That is why Jesus came down from heaven and became man so that men may be liberated from sinfulness. Jesus showed us the way to freedom.Freedom may be hard to achieve, but it is no reason to surrender.
Let me share with you the following:

Let me share with you the following:
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm

Hi, Markstorm,
May I know what is your (or the Church’s) meaning of heresy?

 

[twosweetgirls]

Gottle of Geer:

As for hating sin - what good is that ? A drug addict may loathe his addiction, & himself - that’s not going to free him. Hate by itself is completely negative & destructive - if it’s not integrated into love of something positive, its tyrannical hold over us will never be broken. Disgust with self is not repentance, so it does not give life Hating sins never yet made a Saint - only the Love of God to us, in us, & from us does that. Neither can disgust with others help them - Christ got down with us in our filthiness & falseness: He does not stand in safety on the sidelines, offering useless advice or empty pieties; He gets down into us by His Spirit, & gets His hands dirty.

Michael? THANK YOU. I needed to read that.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Your list comes from where? It seems to contradict what Jesus has told us through His Church and Scriptures. Why should we disregard all that?

Where in the Synoptic Gospels is this position taken?

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

The Church could not be clearer on this than they have been. Becuase you find specualtion that some catholics want to change it doesnt mean anything. how can the Church possibly rule that sin is no lnger sin???

The question is was it even sin to begin with? While some references may have came from the local societies in the past, there is no way to truly know.

I would prefer same-gender couples to be formally married before they show acts of love towards themselves in long-term relationships. That would help take the stigma of “scandal” away from this.

 

[neuro_nurse]

I wonder why so many people have to add this caveat when talking about homosexual behavior?

Why ask the question “Do you hate homosexual acts” in the first place?

It seems to me that by doing so homosexuality is being singled out as some how more deserving of our revulsion than adultery.

Paul tells us not to judge others - we are sinners just as much as they are. When those within the Church are in a state of unrepentant sin, we are to correct them, but I think it’s safe to assume that most people participating in Gay Pride marches are not Christians.

Jesus considers divorce and remarriage to be equivalent to adultery, yet U.S. Catholics are just as likely to divorce and just as likely to cohabitate as the general population (Barna).

The estimates on the number of homosexuals in the U.S. vary, but as I recall, they are usually between 1 to 10%. I don’t know for certain, but I’ll bet there are a lot more Christians divorcing, remarrying, and cohabitating than there are people engaged in homosexual acts in the U.S.

So, why should we focus so much attention on homosexuality? Perhaps it’s really just diversion away from our own sins.

I don’t know about you, but I’m a lot more concerned about my own sins than I am the sins of my neighbor.

 

[neuro_nurse]

Why ask the question “Do you hate homosexual acts” in the first place?

Is it some kind of loyalty test by which YOU decide whether or not I’m fit to be a Catholic?

Thanks, but I’ll let Jesus make that decision.

Peace!

 

[StevenFrancis]

The reason I ask is that many threads here have Catholics who understand very well that we are supposed to treat homosexuals with respect (a good thing!), but do not seem to grasp the seriousness of the danger to the homosexual of being sexually active.

I post it here in Social Justice because I feel it speaks very much to the common good, however politically incorrect it may sound.

I have heard people say they have a problem with anybody who treats homosexual sex acts as more serious than other mortal sins, such as contraception or fornication. This makes no sense to me.

I have heard people say that homosexual sex acts are expressions of love, which also makes no sense to me.

Are the “peace and love” people missing the fact that the active homosexuals they love will basically rot in hell if they do not repent?

Regarding your 3rd paragraph above, homosexual acts are blatant, morally corrupt acts of mortal sin. Homosexual acts ARE fornication, and are also contraceptive in nature. I am not certain that one could classify homosexual acts as any greater or lesser than fornication or contraception in and of themselves. The acts meet all the definitions of mortal sin, but so do many other acts of man.

I do agree that homosexual acts are disordered, and by their very nature, impetus, origin and basis can not be acts of “love” as defined and lived by the Lord our God. They are, in fact, acts of spiritual violence.

It is quite important however that we don’t just gloss over the fact that as representatives of Christ to each other, we must never hate fellow sinners. We must love others as ourselves.

The peace and love crowd you have cited are of course in some need of understanding of the weight, universality, and spiritual penalties of unchecked, rampant moral sin.

However, those who are blinded and emotionally stunted with bigotry are in some need of a softer heart, and a richer understanding of how easily we fragile human beings are manipulated and drawn into deep sin. Say the sins of homosexual behavior, or bigotry against it’s practitioners, who, after all, are the most deeply harmed victims of these acts.

They are in need of our love, compassion, and guidance, however we can do this and still maintain our disdain for the sins themselves. You must examine your conscience to consider whether you are offering counsel in equal measure, and with as deep of concern to those who are fornicators, adulterers, abortion recipients, etc.

The Peace of Christ be with you,

Steven

 

[agangbern]

Why ask the question “Do you hate homosexual acts” in the first place?

Is it some kind of loyalty test by which YOU decide whether or not I’m fit to be a Catholic?

Thanks, but I’ll let Jesus make that decision.

Peace!

How shall we learn of Jesus’ decision? Jesus said, “He who hears you, hears me; and he who rejects you, rejects me; and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) How shall we escape hearing from those He sent in every generation up to our time?

 

[agangbern]

The question is was it even sin to begin with? While some references may have came from the local societies in the past, there is no way to truly know.

I would prefer same-gender couples to be formally married before they show acts of love towards themselves in long-term relationships. That would help take the stigma of “scandal” away from this.

This would bring us back to what the Church teaches is sin. According to the CCC, 1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."
Is desiring sexually for the same gender not contrary to the eternal law?

 

[fix]

Where in the Synoptic Gospels is this position taken?

Luke 10

 

[estesbob]

Why ask the question “Do you hate homosexual acts” in the first place?

It seems to me that by doing so homosexuality is being singled out as some how more deserving of our revulsion than adultery.

.

If you review this thread you will see people claiming that homosexual behavior is not a sin . The you don’t see that claim made in threads on adultery or any other type of fornication. That is why there are so many homosexual threads and that is why they tend to go on so long

 

[fix]

If you review this thread you will see people claiming that homosexual behavior is not a sin . The you don’t see that claim made in threads on adultery or any other type of fornication. That is why there are so many homosexual threads and that is why they tend to go on so long

There are tons of threads on contraception, masturbation, non marital sex, lust and the like. In each of those we can find folks claiming they are not sins. What I seldom see is anyone saying one must mention that homosexual acts are sins in those threads, yet in every homsexual acts thread people claim we need to mention other grave sins.

 

[neuro_nurse]

How shall we escape hearing from those He sent in every generation up to our time?

First, at no point have I denied that homosexual acts are a sin.

Second, it has been my experience that many people who claim to be promoting God’s agenda are really only promoting their own.

I’ll repeat a question I posed on another thread: how is it that homosexuality should take precedence over war, poverty, disease, and starvation? Don’t we have better things to do with out time and effort?

In the grand scheme of things, how many people are hurt when two people engage in a homosexual act?

How many people are hurt when two people – married people, with children – engage in adultery?

How many children have died in Iraq since the invasion?

How many children die every year from diseases associated with malnutrition?

(These are rhetorical questions – I could easily find the answers)

To me, it’s not a matter of whether or not homosexuality is a sin (I’ve never said it isn’t), it’s a matter of priorities.

Peace!

 

[blessedtoo]

Why ask the question “Do you hate homosexual acts” in the first place?

Since you mentioned Paul, he also said

Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good
Romans Chapter 12

It seems to me that by doing so homosexuality is being singled out as some how more deserving of our revulsion than adultery.

We are instructed that it is homosexual behavior that is sinful. What is this behavior? That is what this thread addresses. The OP has attempted to isolate the behavior from the person so that we might be clear about what exactly we are to understand as the sin in homosexuality.

Paul tells us not to judge others - we are sinners just as much as they are. When those within the Church are in a state of unrepentant sin, we are to correct them, but I think it’s safe to assume that most people participating in Gay Pride marches are not Christians.

You would be wrong. The recent brouhaha over the events in San Francisco have exposed the very real problem and confusion in our own Church with our own brothers and sisters. The number of dissenting “Catholic” opinions on this Catholic forum alone is alarming. The Episcopal Church has completely caved to the culture in not only accepting homosexual behavior, but blessing it.
BTW: Paul also said this:

1 1 2 It is widely reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of a kind not found even among pagans–a man living with his father’s wife. 2 And you are inflated with pride. 3 Should you not rather have been sorrowful? The one who did this deed should be expelled from your midst. 3 I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgment on the one who has committed this deed, 4 in the name of (our) Lord Jesus: when you have gathered together and I am with you in spirit with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan 4 for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not appropriate. Do you not know that a little yeast 5 leavens all the dough? 7 6 Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 7 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people, 10 not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world. 11 But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. 12 For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within? 13 God will judge those outside. “Purge the evil person from your midst.” 1 Corinthians Chapter 5

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