Sounds like a salvation of works to me. Like Islam.
It probably sounds this way to you because you have a deficient understanding of salvation.
There is no such thing as “salvation of works”. One cannot be saved by “works”. We can only be saved by grace through faith. The blood of Jesus, shed for us while we were yet sinners is what saves us. We are justified apart from “works”.
If you want a guarantee of a perfect score, though, it’s possible. Have Jesus take the test for you. That’s what propitiation is. Look up Hebrews 10:14.
bible.cc/hebrews/10-14.htm
We have no need or desire to be instructed in your truncated understanding of the bible.
Code:
I don't have to hope so maybe so guess so about the outcome. I don't even have to answer any questions. Jesus gets this one for me. It's kind of a pass/fail situation, but Jesus never fails.
Then you are missing out! Hope is one of the most wonderful Gifts of God to the Church.
The idea of the New Covenant is that Jesus bears responsibility for our sins.
Is that right? Where did you hear/read that? My Bible says the opposite.
Don’t you realize how screwed we would be if we had to bear responsibility for our own sins?
News flash, you are responsible. The inference also seems to be the case.
Ephesians 2 says we are not saved by works. I can see how you’d get confused, because right after that it says we are saved “unto good works.” You’re saying we are saved by works. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not by works…but unto good works.
It says both. The Apostles never separated grace from the works it produces.
Code:
(More to the point, the Bible actually does say we are not saved by works. What could possibly be going through you mind when you see that?).
That all the scripture together has to make sense, so the places where it says we are saved by works need to fit in also.
They act as evidence of salvation. They are the result of love for God- if we love Him, we keep His commands. But it doesn’t work in reverse. Keeping God’s commands does not promise to lead to love for God, nor do good works promise to lead to salvation. Salvation leads to good works, and love for God leads to obedience.
It seems that you have some scriptures to reconcile with your theology:
Rom 2:13
13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
James 2:23-25
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Works are “involved” (in a loose sense), as you say, but they are not the cause of salvation. A better word would be “associated” instead of involved. You’re arguing that the nature of good works’ “involvement” is that of causing a person to become saved. But the Bible says something different. With reference to salvation, it is “not by works.” It then says we are saved “unto good works,” telling us very plainly the manner in which works are associated with salvation.
It says both.
Matt 12:36-37
36 I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
As to what happens when we get to heaven, there is a judgment…
Rom 2:5-11
when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 For he will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.
Of course, the main point of this thread is that I can know I am saved,
Ok, so why are you here? If you know what you want to know, why are you coming to CAF? this is a place to get answers about what Catholics believe.
Code:
Do you know that you are saved? If you're not sure- if you're at a point where you're just hoping your good works are good enough- 1 John 5 is written to those who believe that you may know that you have eternal life. If you'd like to be one who knows, study the preceding verses.
CAF is not a venue for you to evangelize, either. If you wish to do this, you will have to take it to some other website.
Instead, following the “fear and trembling” part, he says “for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.” That is something the RCC doesn’t particularly emphasize, but that’s not the point of the thread.
Please show where the Church (which is not “Roman” by the way) does not “particularly emphasize” this?
On the contrary, I think there is SO MUCH focus on the working out what is working in that Catholics are frequently inappropriately accused of “works salvation”. Catholics are aware that it is God who is at work in us, but our accusers for some reason are not.
In this post, I’ll address this source.
catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp
It looks like Catholics have not one but three different kinds of salvation.
One salvation. Many aspects, many different names and descriptions applied.
