Catholics who vote for those who kill the innocent are-

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It is completely within your rights to do so. However, I’d suggest that there is another way; vote for a third party like the American Solidarity party.

I’ve largely given up on the Republican party. But for all the things that they do that disgust me (regulatory capture, selling out to most industries, alot of climate change denial) the Democrats have just as many things (Their own issues with industry and finance, selling out completely on free trade, things like the ‘Dear Colleague’ letters that enforced bathroom bills and made the sexual assault proceedings on college campuses draconian, wanting to limit carbon but ignoring options like nuclear power) and like icing on top of the cake… they are going full force even harder into abortion. The direct killing of innocent human beings.

Sorry. I don’t like the Reps and won’t vote for them. But I find arguments saying the Dems are better extremely spurious.
 
JimG said:
Yes, of course. The only trouble with the USCCB guide is that its 41 pages are so carefully nuamced as to be nearly useless in practice. One can find reasons to vote for whatever preference one has.
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The other problem is that there are MANY American bishops who do not like the USCCB guide because it’s too vague. I know, for example, Archbishop Sample has said such a thing.

For me, the “5 Non-Negotiables” is the best guide.

https://www.ewtn.com/vote/non-negotiables.asp
https://stjoseph-marysville.org/faqnonnegotiables.html

www.catholic365.com

The 5 Non-Negotiables Explained

If you have ever been overwhelmed by what needs to be considered when voting, here is a beginner's guide for you! Thanks to Catholic Answers for bringing the 5 Non-Negotiables into the mainstream of Catholic apologetics this is a breakdown of each issue and where the Church stands, including...
www.catholic365.com
 
RuthAnne said:
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TheLittleLady:
The good news is that we can choose not to vote,
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Probably the most wise decision.
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@TheLittleLady

Personally - I find not voting to be the wrong decision.

Personally, I feel it is our responsibility to vote and to vote for a candidate that has a chance at legitimately winning (in other words - no voting for third party candidates who have no shot at winning even 1% of the vote)

I personally feel that we each need to choose the lesser of two evils (or more if you live in multi-party system).

As Archbishop Sample says, sometimes both candidates are terrible (like in 2016), therefore it’s important to look at the platform and not the person. That’s what I did back then.

As much as I dislike Trump as President, I’m glad I voted for him over Hillary because Trump has been AMAZING when it comes to the courts.

To me, the most important thing a US President does is appoint judges to the Federal Courts and Justices to the Supreme Court. To me, nothing supersedes that awesome responsibility.
 
JimG said:
Yes, of course. The only trouble with the USCCB guide is that its 41 pages are so carefully nuamced as to be nearly useless in practice. One can find reasons to vote for whatever preference one has.
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It may be useless to someone looking for an definitive answer to a question of prudential judgement. It would be like looking at Catholic teaching on charity and expecting to find an explicit judgement on exactly how much money one is required to give to the Church, or to other causes. One can find reasons to give whatever one has a preference to give, and that is that way it should be.
phil19034 said:
For me, the “5 Non-Negotiables” is the best guide.
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Another example of looking around for support of what you already believe. For me, the USCCB documents are the best guide because they follow Catholic doctrine as closely as possible.
 
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Except this “5 non-negotiable” is simply an opinion. It is not all inclusive.
 
This is my standard response to the old argument that a Catholic or christian can’t vote one way or another.

It is spelled out pretty plainly by God himself.

16 Six things I will tell thee, and name a seventh for good measure, the Lord hates and will never abide; 17 the haughty look, the lying tongue, the hands that take innocent life, 18 the heart that ever devises thoughts of mischief, the feet that hasten upon an ill errand, 19 the false witness whose every breath is perjury, and the sower of strife among brethren.

If you trade voting for someone who advocates letting women decide whether or not to terminate a pregnancy for someone who lies, your argument for that decision is based on your personal preference, not anything that God actually says.

No candidate can change the current laws regarding abortion, regardless of what office they seek. Even if they SCOTUS overturns Roe, it will go back to the states and will not stop abortions. So voting based on a single issue that can not be changed is ignorant, versus voting for a candidate who strives to make the country better and will work towards that goal, even if you don’t agree with them on any particular issue.
 
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RuthAnne said:
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phil19034:
therefore it’s important to look at the platform and not the person.
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I find both platforms to be totally repugnant. I’d rather not vote.
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Just out of curiosity, what in the official 2016 Republican Platform document do you find repugnant? I’m not trying to argue with you, I simply want to understand to see if I’m missing something.


Thank you & God bless
 
Way too much to address here. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution outlines the powers of congress. They need to stick to that. The federal government ought not get its nose into things that are not within its vested powers. One of the worst things that the Republicans support is the Federal Reserve. There is no constitutional authority for the government to get involved in health care, medicare, medicaid, social security, marriage, education, college tuition and drugs, for starters. Our military budget is way out of control. Note, “military” not “defense”. They are not the same thing.

Basically, the Republican party does not respect the Constitution. But that is getting off topic and does not belong in this thread. So I’ll stop here.
 
Seriously- there are other political parties out there. The two party strong hold will never cease until people quit voting for the big two and start voting for others. Voting third party is never a wasted vote. Not voting at all is.
 
CoffeeFanatic said:
Voting third party is never a wasted vote.
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Very true! Even if your party does not win in the next election, voting for that party raises its visibility and fundraising and debating possibilities for future elections. Every election is touted as the “most important one in history” - until the next election, when that one will be the “most important one in history.” It is quite valid to take the long view and vote a third party.
 
What I find repugnant, is that regardless of what the platform says, many fail to work towards the stated goals.

They fail to understand that it isn’t an all or none choice. We have a representative republic. Just because one party wants X, they must work with the other party to get as close to X as they can get, even though they may not ever get there. They must compromise.

They must also remember who they are representing. There is no PAC, no corporation, no lobbying group who are citizens or get to vote. Therefore they are not in office to represent those interests, but unfortunately that is where the money is so that is who they they cater to.

Additionally, if they play party politics instead of doing what is right, and/or following the law, they have no business being in office. Yet, the American people continue to re-elect people simply because of party affiliation. That in my opinion is where Americans show their true ignorance. Voting for someone simply because they have a specific letter by their name, versus whether the person is a good individual and is trying to do what they think is right for the country, is all too common.
 
Yes, this is both parties right now. There is no compromise because both consider the other party to be evil. 😦
 
CoffeeFanatic said:
Seriously- there are other political parties out there. The two party strong hold will never cease until people quit voting for the big two and start voting for others. Voting third party is never a wasted vote. Not voting at all is.
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@RuthAnne

While I generally do not agree with people voting for non-viable third party candidates, I would much rather see a vote for a third party candidate than a “no vote.”
 
I mostly agree. I have voted for third party candidates in the past. But a no vote is the same as a vote for none of the above and l have not voted on many occasions. IMO voting for a candidate I don’t agree with is wasting my vote.
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
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LeafByNiggle:
I am reasonably sure he was referring to US politicians who have a policy of keeping abortions legal.
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It’s reasonable that those who allow abortion have some guilt on their hands.
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It is if that were the only issue on the table. To allow abortions when you could have easily disallowed them would be wrong. That could certainly be said of politicians who vote for pro-abortion measures, because at the time they vote, that is the only issue on the table. But the same cannot be said for voters. At the time they vote, they only get one vote to represent all the points they wanted to make.
 
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