Catholics worship Mary, crosses, cards, and bread?

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Andrew_Larkoski

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If any of you have read “Top Ten Reasons Why Catholics aren’t Christian” lists, more often thatn not, right after the claims about the pope and transubstantiation, the claim that Catholics worship Mary or stautes, or whatever (saints, angels, etc.) other than the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity is also sometimes on these lists) is found.

After reading this, a Catholic who doesn’t understand what veneration of Saints, Mary, crosses, etc. is and what the Church teaches on these matters might think that the “Hail Mary” is idolatry or the Rosary is misguided.

I am going to eat dinner now (sorry!) but I promise I will explain the truth behind these claims soon.

Tyler, take it away.
 
Most of these lists come from the “Master List” found in the opening pages of Loraine Boettner’s 1962 anti-Catholic screed Roman Catholicism.

This list, or portions of it, appear repeatedly on the Internet, and that’s why I wrote a short book last year refuting each of his 45 points, one by one. The book, as we speak, is presently in the hands of the editorial staff at Catholic Answers. 🙂

However, I haven’t heard anything back from them yet, although I am waiting patiently. 🙂 I’m hoping they like it, because I think if it was published, it would prove to be a very useful tool for all Catholics who frequent Internet bulletin boards and encounter these misconceptions and fabrications on a regular basis.

Karl? (nudge, nudge) 🙂
 
Ok, Andrew you hopped off to dinner before I could ask you where you wanted to go but hopefully this is it…

Many non-Catholics see our tradtions and forms of practicing our faith as idolity and they think that we are going to hell because of it. What can we do as a community to start proveing these people wrong and start to turn over this preconception in our society that catholics are evil. This is especially rampant in America where there is supposed to be freedom of religion. We need to change these notions. How do we do it, where does this stuff come from. Why do people think this way?
 
Tyler Smedley:
Ok, Andrew you hopped off to dinner before I could ask you where you wanted to go but hopefully this is it…

Many non-Catholics see our tradtions and forms of practicing our faith as idolity and they think that we are going to hell because of it. What can we do as a community to start proveing these people wrong and start to turn over this preconception in our society that catholics are evil. This is especially rampant in America where there is supposed to be freedom of religion. We need to change these notions. How do we do it, where does this stuff come from. Why do people think this way?
Tyler,
In response to the quote of your about, ‘why do people think this way?’
Well, Christ even said that , ‘They hated me first than they will hate you as well.’ (not quoted word for word)

We need to KNOW out faith and be able to defend it, key word Apologetics. We all need to be Catholic Apologetists. Once we can PROVE that what they accuse us as being from the Bible, then I am sure those led by the Holy Spirit will come to the Fullness of the Truth.

Glory be to Jesus Christ! Glory to Him Forever!
 
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Wolseley:
Most of these lists come from the “Master List” found in the opening pages of Loraine Boettner’s 1962 anti-Catholic screed Roman Catholicism.

This list, or portions of it, appear repeatedly on the Internet, and that’s why I wrote a short book last year refuting each of his 45 points, one by one. The book, as we speak, is presently in the hands of the editorial staff at Catholic Answers. 🙂

However, I haven’t heard anything back from them yet, although I am waiting patiently. 🙂 I’m hoping they like it, because I think if it was published, it would prove to be a very useful tool for all Catholics who frequent Internet bulletin boards and encounter these misconceptions and fabrications on a regular basis.

Karl? (nudge, nudge) 🙂
Can I nudge Karl too? (Karl, nudge, nudge)

Some of us have been for this book for quite some time now!!! 😃

Peace in Him!
 
The question is WHY do they see us that way . .

I think to understand this, one has to understand where some of this comes from, some of its roots . . In many minds within protestantism, we have been almost irrevocably linked to ancient bablyonian paganism . . it takes alot to overcome that mindset.

To better understand this, I believe we need to go back to the mid 1800’s when a scholar named Alexander Hislop wrote the acclaimed work in 1856, “The Two Babylons”, about the Catholic Church, heavily foot noted and referenced, linking the Catholic Church to ancient Babylonian pagan religions . . and he went all out. His work was so “scholarly” that it was accepted without question for the next hundred years as THE book exposing the ttruth about the Catholic Church.

This work had a huge effect in many circles within Protestantism on how they viewed the Catholic faith.

Then, over a hundred years later, Evangelical theologian Ralph Woodrow enters the scene . . he writes his own book based on Hislop’s work and titles it “Babylon Mystery Religion”, putting Hislpos views into modern English. It was a huge success, published in several languages around the world. He was hailed as “the” authority on this subject, so much so that his work was even confused with Hislop’s.

However, what many in those groups are not familiar with is that Woodrow was challanged by a friend who was a history teacher . . his friend and others challanged him to research Hislop’s work due to the errors they found in it. Eventually, Woodrow did just that . . going so far as to hunt down the original sources Hislop used. What he found shocked him and caused him to pull his book from print, at great loss to himself. He then published a new book called

“The Babylon Connection?”

in which he thoroughly refutes Hislop’s previous work . .

Here are two links on the subject

Did the Catholic Church Blend Paganism with Christianity?

davidmacd.com/catholic/were_catholics_pagan.htm

This one is in Woodrow’s own words"
The Two Babylons: A Case Study in Poor Research Methodology
users.clarkston.com/rcorson/2babylons.htm

Then add Jack Chick and his infamous Tracts to the mix, and you have several generations of Protestants from various walks impacted by such extreme and unfounded rhetoric promoted as the gospel truth, for which they have no frame of reference to compare it to for its validity . . This information is being given to them by people they trust who were given it by people they trusted and so forth . .

There are many booklets, pamphlets and tracts available in Chrsitian books stores, over the internet, and through various Church ministries that keep perpetuating this understanding of the Catholic Faith.

I think what is key to showing them that what they believe is wrong is to understand where their understanding of our faith came from, what its roots are, and to have tools and information at hand to give them, or direct them to that can effectively refute their misconceptions…

I personally have not read Woodrows 2nd book above, but after reading his own words on the subject, I expect that it goes a long way to dispelling they myths he unwittingly helped perpetuate against the Catholic Church.

Peace in Him!
 
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theresepio:
The question is WHY do they see us that way . .

I think what is key to showing them that what they believe is wrong is to understand where their understanding of our faith came from, what its roots are, and to have tools and information at hand to give them, or direct them to that can effectively refute their misconceptions…
I agree totally with this statement. I am a Protestant on my way to Catholicism. It was my interest in studying the roots of Christianity and the Church that led me to believe there were some serious errors in Protestantism.

Now after much reading and studying I have found that for me not to become Catholic would be to disobey God. But try to explain that to my friends or family!!!

I have found that generally speaking most Protestants don’t seem interested in history or the roots of Christianity. They seem to feel it is enough to accept what their Pastors teach them and they see no need to verify sources. This is really a shame because in the words of Cardinal Newman:

“To be deep in history is to cease being a Protestant.”

:gopray:
 
Andrew Larkoski:
After reading this, a Catholic who doesn’t understand what veneration of Saints, Mary, crosses, etc. is and what the Church teaches on these matters might think that the “Hail Mary” is idolatry or the Rosary is misguided.
One reason why protestants think this is because of the deficient protestant worship system. They have praise, prayers, hymns, but…no new testament sacrifice.

Take a look at Malachi 1:10. Some protestants say that burning incense symbolizes praise, good. But what is the “pure offering”? In Catholic churches, Christ fulfilled this with the Eucharist, which is the New Testament sacrifice. We Catholics worship God in the compete sense of the word: prayers, hymns, praise AND the sacrifice. In protestant churches, this is not fulfilled since they don’t have the Eucharist.

I would ask them: Where do we offer the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ TO Mary? We don’t. Such a thing would be worshipping her in the true sense of the word.
 
One thing that I generally like to bring up is the definition of PRAYER

‘To Pray’ means to implore, entreat or humbly request. It comes from the Latin Precare - to request.

An example is Hamlet Act I Scene ii

QUEEN GERTRUDE: Let not thy mother lose her prayers, Hamlet: I pray thee, stay with us; go not to Wittenberg.

Now exactly who is Gertrude praying to? It’s Hamlet. Is she worshiping Hamlet? No, she is using the correct usage of the verb ‘to pray’. She is imploring Hamlet to stay.

Do Catholics worship Mary by praying to her? NO we entreat or implore.

The Protestant service has no Sacrifice like the Catholic Mass. They therefore lack the proper sense of what true worship is. They confuse it with prayer. Because Catholics pray to Mary, they must be worshipping her, because somehow prayer=worship in uninformed minds.
 
*QUOTE=theresepio]…Then add Jack Chick and his infamous Tracts to the mix, and you have several generations of Protestants from various walks impacted by such extreme and unfounded rhetoric promoted as the gospel truth, for which they have no frame of reference to compare it to for its validity . . This information is being given to them by people they trust who were given it by people they trusted and so forth . .

The name “Jack Chick” virtually leapt from my screen as I read your post (prompting me to paraphrase a vulgar old saw: "He don’t know Jack Chick about – [fill in the blank] ")

Ain’t Jack a hoot?? One must wonder not only how many people Mr. Chick has driven in horror from the Catholic Church, but how many people have been scared away from *Christ Himself * by Mr. Chick’s bizarre fantasies. I never can fathom how one can claim to be a “Christian” and believe in such a bloodthirsty deity as Jack Chick’s own personal sadistic “god”.

Seems training in anti-Catholicism (or hatred of what some believe the Catholic Church to be) starts early: in the mid-60s, I transferred by necessity from my Parochial School to a public junior high. Upon hearing I was Catholic, one of my classmates asked, in all seriousness, “Why do Catholics pray to statues?” Apparently he believed it because some Reverend-Jim-Bob-Whatsisname told him so :)*
 
i thought that after vatican ii we had gotten rid of most of that idolatry stufff and limited ourselves to worshipping plants and banners.
 
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stephenthomas:
i thought that after vatican ii we had gotten rid of most of that idolatry stufff and limited ourselves to worshipping plants and banners.
No, that’s some parts of the church, which limited themselves to worshipping mirrors 🙂
 
Andrew Larkoski:
If any of you have read “Top Ten Reasons Why Catholics aren’t Christian” lists, more often thatn not, right after the claims about the pope and transubstantiation, the claim that Catholics worship Mary or stautes, or whatever (saints, angels, etc.) other than the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity is also sometimes on these lists) is found.

After reading this, a Catholic who doesn’t understand what veneration of Saints, Mary, crosses, etc. is and what the Church teaches on these matters might think that the “Hail Mary” is idolatry or the Rosary is misguided.

I am going to eat dinner now (sorry!) but I promise I will explain the truth behind these claims soon.

Tyler, take it away.
Catholics don’t pray to statues :banghead: do you have a photo album in your house to remind you of your loved ones, both living and dead ? images I might add.
Well you wouldn’t think of throwing those out as the remind you of them, statues remind us of the saints, Mary etc: “Out of sight is out of mind” especially for little children.
Do you have ornaments in your house, engraven images, I’m sure you don’t pray to those, :bowdown: .
At the wedding feast at Cana, Mary said to her son Jesus, " they have no wine" then Mary said “do whatever he tells you” and we know the rest, that was the first public miracle that Jesus worked as far as I’m aware.
Protestants say that there is but one mediator between God and us and thats Jesus Christ, that is true, but Prayers to Mary are presented to Jesus who presents them to the Father, or we can go directly to Jesus.
Anyway since the devil used Eve to sin, God likwise is using a woman to defeat the devil, “MARY”
Revelation talks about the devil being chained by the woman, Father Gobbi in his book says that is the chain of the Rosary.
:gopray:
 
Andrew Larkoski:
If any of you have read “Top Ten Reasons Why Catholics aren’t Christian” lists, more often thatn not, right after the claims about the pope and transubstantiation, the claim that Catholics worship Mary or stautes, or whatever (saints, angels, etc.) other than the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity is also sometimes on these lists) is found.

After reading this, a Catholic who doesn’t understand what veneration of Saints, Mary, crosses, etc. is and what the Church teaches on these matters might think that the “Hail Mary” is idolatry or the Rosary is misguided.

I am going to eat dinner now (sorry!) but I promise I will explain the truth behind these claims soon.

Tyler, take it away.
Therein lies the greatest problem. The Faith has not been taught adequately to the younger generations of Catholics. As a result we are unprepared to answer such assaults against our Faith. Some of us, do the extra legwork to become informed, so that we are capable of defending our Faith and explaining it to others. But the vast majority remain unformed without proper Catechesis. This is the great failing of Vatican II. The Faith has not been conveyed to the next. The result, lies like these are able to pass unchallenged and trap many sincere but unformed Catholics in its snare.
 
ecs 220 said:
QUOTE=theresepio]
…Then add Jack Chick and his infamous Tracts to the mix, and you have several generations of Protestants from various walks impacted by such extreme and unfounded rhetoric promoted as the gospel truth, for which they have no frame of reference to compare it to for its validity . . This information is being given to them by people they trust who were given it by people they trusted and so forth . .

*
The name “Jack Chick” virtually leapt from my screen as I read your post (prompting me to paraphrase a vulgar old saw: "He don’t know Jack Chick about – [fill in the blank] ")

Ain’t Jack a hoot?? One must wonder not only how many people Mr. Chick has driven in horror from the Catholic Church, but how many people have been scared away from *Christ Himself *by Mr. Chick’s bizarre fantasies. I never can fathom how one can claim to be a “Christian” and believe in such a bloodthirsty deity as Jack Chick’s own personal sadistic “god”.

Seems training in anti-Catholicism (or hatred of what some believe the Catholic Church to be) starts early: in the mid-60s, I transferred by necessity from my Parochial School to a public junior high. Upon hearing I was Catholic, one of my classmates asked, in all seriousness, “Why do Catholics pray to statues?” Apparently he believed it because some Reverend-Jim-Bob-Whatsisname told him so 🙂
Jack Chick is so entertaining. I loved the part about how the Catholic Church started WWI, created Communism (led by the Jesuits), formed the Nazis, started WWII, orchestrated the Holocaust and hunted down true believers. Wow, and I will always remember the “wafer God.” Where an idiot like Chick gets that **** is beyond me.
 
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BobCatholic:
But what is the “pure offering”? In Catholic churches, Christ fulfilled this with the Eucharist, which is the New Testament sacrifice. We Catholics worship God in the compete sense of the word: prayers, hymns, praise AND the sacrifice. In protestant churches, this is not fulfilled since they don’t have the Eucharist.
The difference here between Catholics and Protestants is in the way we each look at Jesus’s sacrifice. In Protestant thinking (at least from my experience), Jesus’s death paid the penalty for sins for all time, end of story. We as Catholics relive his sacrifice in the Eucharist, thereby uniting ourselves with Him and His body, the Church. It’s not that we don’t believe the penalty has been paid, we just have a fuller understanding of the payment. It’s hard enough for many Catholics (including myself) to fully comprehend the Eucharist, but outside of the Church it’s nearly impossible to understand its significance.

Peace
 
On Jack Chick and his “Chickisms,” anyone notice that he has people riding on dinosaurs before the flood?

As whacky as some of his beliefs and conspiracy theories may seem, I still firmly believe his tracts are dangerous, especially when given to the uninformed masses.
 
To be fair, uncatechized catholics riding around with statues in their car or doing certain superstitious practices like burying St Joseph in their yard to sell their home might cause a non-catholic to view the religion with suspicion. Anytime we place our faith in something in lieu of God it is idolatry.

I can’t tell you how many times I have asked a catholics if they were Christian and they said “No, I’m Catholic.”

Some Catholics DO appear to worship Mary and other saints. I am not saying it is what the Church teaches, but I have seen it. Some Catholics act like their rosary is a magic talisman, a practice which has been officially condemned. (The fact that it has been condemned is admission that the practice regretfully occurs.)

The best way to let Protestants know about your faith is to share it in a loving manner, with an attitude of prayer. It is probably best to start with areas of agreement than to jump in criticizing their faith.
I do understand that there is appropriate use of statues and images to foster a deep spiritual life. I also believe that such items can be used incorrectly.
 
Since moving to the South I put up with a lot of flak about saying the rosary. I tell them they don’t even know what I’m doing. One night I had some protestants over and of course we ended up talking about Mary. When I told them when we say the rosary were meditating on what Jesus went through. They didn’t know what to say. I felt good.
 
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