Catholics worship Mary, crosses, cards, and bread?

[iguana27]

George M:

Since moving to the South I put up with a lot of flak about saying the rosary. I tell them they don’t even know what I’m doing. One night I had some protestants over and of course we ended up talking about Mary. When I told them when we say the rosary were meditating on what Jesus went through. They didn’t know what to say. I felt good.

It’s good to let your Protestant friends know what you are doing. It helps combat ignorance. Some of these things are much less scary to Protestants if they know about them.

 

[joehardee]

To all wake up , in the word of God doesnt say anything about Mary, beads and sacraments , worship the creator not the creations.

 

[Della]

joehardee:

To all wake up , in the word of God doesnt say anything about Mary, beads and sacraments , worship the creator not the creations.

Just in case you aren’t being factious: You are wrong. The Bible says a lot about Mary, mostly in Luke and John.

There’s no reference to beads, but there are plenty of references to helps to prayer, such as the temple and all it contained. Plus prayer shawls and the like.

And Jesus established the sacraments. You need to do a bit more reading, my friend.

 

[clskinner]

patricia:

I have found that generally speaking most Protestants don’t seem interested in history or the roots of Christianity.

I couldn’t agree with you more, Patricia. I’ve found the same thing, especially in speaking with a particular Baptist friend of mine. “I don’t care about that stuff,” she says. Ignorance may be bliss, but it does not lead to Truth.

God bless you!

 

[rfk]

joehardee:

To all wake up , in the word of God doesnt say anything about Mary, beads and sacraments , worship the creator not the creations.

Actually, every time I say the Hail Mary, it is pleasing to God. After all, God himself taught us the prayer through his inspired scripture. Just as it pleases me when my children repeat a lesson that I have taught them, it please God when we repeat a prayer he has taught us. Go take a quick re-read of Luke.

 

[bonica]

joehardee:

To all wake up , in the word of God doesnt say anything about Mary, beads and sacraments , worship the creator not the creations.

We DO worship the Creator…we DO NOT worship creations!

 

[luckyirishguy14]

They just think we worship those items because we are highly reverent of those things. They also don’t understand ancient culture well enough to make assumptions. What’s wrong with these anti-Catholics is that they don’t understand Ancient-Dark Age culture well enough to understand our traditions. If we bow to statues, we are reverent of them. If we consecrate bread, we are making it the Blessed Sacrament. They don’t understand that because it may not necessarily be put in the Bible or be put in an obvious way. I agree, we need more people to stress these points (Apologists). This will definitely get more people to respect the faith.

 

[MargaretCortona]

I had a college student staying at my house for a while this summer - Pentecostal background, no knowledge of the Catholic faith. When the subject of my being Catholic came up (when I had to explain why I would be up making noise at 2am, getting ready to go to my hour of perpetual adoration), I commented that I was a convert, and knew that there were a lot of thing about the faith that protestants have misconceptions about, and offered to answer any questions she might have. The first, of course, was about Catholics worshipping Mary. When I explained that Catholics don’t worship Mary, we honor her, the next question was, “then Catholics don’t pray to Mary?”

I had to go into the definition of prayer - didn’t use the Shakespeare quote given earlier in this thread, but did mention the old usage of “I pray thee”, or “prithee” in early colonial writings, or the common Southernism “pray tell”. I got a laugh when I commented that when I used to practice law and draft complaints, each complaint ended with a “prayer for relief” to the judge - and no attorney in the world thinks the judge is God! Anyway, she accepted the idea that while prayer is often directed to God as part of worship, the concept of prayer is broader than that, and that her asking her parents or a family friend to pray for her is in a sense a prayer - a petition - and that is the sense in which we pray to Mary and the saints. Further, if you are going to ask someone to pray for you, you ask someone you know will do so, not the neighborhood atheist - you ask the “prayingest” person you know, and who better than those who are already with God for all eternity?

So to make a long story short, question followed question, I did my best to answer (drawing on Catholic Answers material, books by Karl Keating, books and tapes by Scott Hahn and others, watching EWTN, etc.) and my student friend now attends mass every week, went to our diocesan Eucharistic Congress, spends time in our adoration chapel, prays the rosary, and is set to start OCIA in September, with me as her sponsor!

Praise and thanks be to God!!!

 

[Mike_C]

Yes, I agree, the biggest obstacle is ignorance. Just like some people think Jews have horns. (The statue of Moses in Rome, by Michelangelo, the tranlation of the “rays” of light into “horns” of light). People assumed that all Jews had horns!!! How stupid.

What was VATII about? Ecumenism. What happened? Many non-Catholics are still ignorant about the Catholic faith as they were 100 years ago. I can understand 100 years ago, but with TV and the internet, I don’t understand. But people will continue to be ignorant.

We can explain to them until we are blue in the face, but they will still be obstinate. Of course the lies continue. We must pray, and live good lives. Many Catholics live more like pagans than as Christians. Look how people dress for church.

 

[RattleSnake]

MargaretCortona:

I had a college student staying at my house for a while this summer - Pentecostal background, no knowledge of the Catholic faith. When the subject of my being Catholic came up (when I had to explain why I would be up making noise at 2am, getting ready to go to my hour of perpetual adoration), I commented that I was a convert, and knew that there were a lot of thing about the faith that protestants have misconceptions about, and offered to answer any questions she might have. The first, of course, was about Catholics worshipping Mary. When I explained that Catholics don’t worship Mary, we honor her, the next question was, “then Catholics don’t pray to Mary?”

I had to go into the definition of prayer - didn’t use the Shakespeare quote given earlier in this thread, but did mention the old usage of “I pray thee”, or “prithee” in early colonial writings, or the common Southernism “pray tell”. I got a laugh when I commented that when I used to practice law and draft complaints, each complaint ended with a “prayer for relief” to the judge - and no attorney in the world thinks the judge is God! Anyway, she accepted the idea that while prayer is often directed to God as part of worship, the concept of prayer is broader than that, and that her asking her parents or a family friend to pray for her is in a sense a prayer - a petition - and that is the sense in which we pray to Mary and the saints. Further, if you are going to ask someone to pray for you, you ask someone you know will do so, not the neighborhood atheist - you ask the “prayingest” person you know, and who better than those who are already with God for all eternity?

So to make a long story short, question followed question, I did my best to answer (drawing on Catholic Answers material, books by Karl Keating, books and tapes by Scott Hahn and others, watching EWTN, etc.) and my student friend now attends mass every week, went to our diocesan Eucharistic Congress, spends time in our adoration chapel, prays the rosary, and is set to start OCIA in September, with me as her sponsor!

Praise and thanks be to God!!!

That RULES! Outstanding!

 

[ridesawhitehors]

Time after time I return to the notion that the main complaints from Protestants revolve around their complete “sanitation” of religion, - the denial that anything sacred could exist here on earth. Protestants don’t have touchstones, landmarks, holy things - because they are idol-phobic. Have you ever been in a protestant church? It FEELS so empty!
One of the greatest reasons I left evangelicalism, and converted to Catholicism was my great HUNGER for something sacred - the highest being the eucharist, and the richness of items like, beads, statues, art, scapulars, medals, water, oil, all sacraments and sacramentals.

 

[KennySe]

ridesawhitehors:

Time after time I return to the notion that the main complaints from Protestants revolve around their complete “sanitation” of religion, - the denial that anything sacred could exist here on earth.

I agree.

This reminds me of an early historical heresy, where the physical is evil and the spiritual is good.

There’s a name of it, but I forget.

The proponents were into all sorts of carnal sin, because, to them, it was what the physical was.

I’m not saying that Protestants are into all the teachings of that historical heresy.
But many are into the notion that physcial is bad and spiritual is good.

And yet, the Word became flesh and died and rose in His flesh and took His flesh with Him into heaven. That same Jesus will return.

 

[Wormwood]

Protestants don’t have touchstones, landmarks, holy things - because they are idol-phobic. Have you ever been in a protestant church? It FEELS so empty!
One of the greatest reasons I left evangelicalism, and converted to Catholicism was my great HUNGER for something sacred - the highest being the eucharist, and the richness of items like, beads, statues, art, scapulars, medals, water, oil, all sacraments and sacramentals.

Such ornate religious structures are a product of Roman influence and not of Jesus. As I have mentioned in other threads, Jesus’ church was " not in a building of wood and stone" it was outside in God’s majesty. Statues and art are products of man and symbols of wealth, not objects of piety. You can call it what you want, but if you utter a prayer to anyone other than God, that is polytheism.

I got a laugh when I commented that when I used to practice law and draft complaints, each complaint ended with a “prayer for relief” to the judge - and no attorney in the world thinks the judge is God!

You aren’t praying to Mary or St. Peter that a judge have relief, when you pray to these people you are asking for some kind of intervention in your life or the life of someone close to you (indirectly your life). This is polytheism. If i had a statue of apollo in my house, and everytime something bad happened I asked apollo to please intervene or talk to God for me, is that not polytheism? BTW I am not a protestant either, as I believe them to also be too materialistic and earthly to truley impart divine wisdom. So protestants aren’t the only ones who feel this way…I have nothing to gain by condemning your practices, as I do not intend to convert your followers, I just wanted to offer an outside perspective.

 

[mrS4ntA]

Wormwood:

… If i had a statue of apollo in my house, and everytime something bad happened I asked apollo to please intervene or talk to God for me, is that not polytheism? BTW I am not a protestant either, as I believe them to also be too materialistic and earthly to truley impart divine wisdom. So protestants aren’t the only ones who feel this way…I have nothing to gain by condemning your practices, as I do not intend to convert your followers, I just wanted to offer an outside perspective.

well, assuming that Apollo is an actual human being already a saint in heaven, yes, you can do that and no, that’s not polytheism, since the ultimate goal of your prayer is God Himself and not Apollo…

If this Apollo you’re talking about is the on of the ancient Greek gods, then yes… ancient Greeks worshipped Apollo, they were NOT asking him to intercede to a higher power… so THAT was polytheism. Get your concept about praying/worshipping right…

 

[Luke24]

You know, it never ceases to amaze me how people can be so blatantly critical about true Christians that hold to the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles, (I am not talking denomination here) and yet these critics never once use Scripture to back up their statements. I would like to challenge you all to a draw! As you research these verses you may have to read a chapter or two to get the full impact of what is being said, but it is well worth your time and your future.
On idols:Le 19:4; 26:1,30; De 29:17; 1Sa 31:9; 1Ki 15:12; 21:26; 2Ki 17:12; 21:11,21; 23:24; 1Ch 10:9; 16:26; 2Ch 15:8; 24:18; 34:7; Ps 96:5; 97:7; 106:36,38; 115:4; 135:15; Isa 2:8,18,20; 10:10-11; 19:1,3; 31:7; 45:16; 46:1; 57:5; Jer 50:2,38; Eze 6:4-6,9,13; 8:10; 14:3-7; 16:36; 18:6,12,15; 20:7-8,16,18,24,31,39; 22:3-4; 23:7,30,37,39,49; 30:13; 33:25; 36:18,25; 37:23; 44:10,12; Ho 4:17; 8:4; 13:2; 14:8; Zec 10:2; 13:2; Ac 15:20,29; 17:16; 21:25; Ro 2:22; 1Co 8:1,4,10; 10:19,28; 12:2; 2Co 6:16; 1Th 1:9; 1Jo 5:21; Re 2:14,20; 9:20
Rosaries: none
**Crucifixes:**none
Traditions: Mt 15:2-3,6; Mr 7:3,5,8-9,13; Col 2:8; 2Th 3:6; 1Pe 1:18
Commandments of men: Mt 5:19; 15:9; Mr 7:7; Col 2:22; Tit 1:14
Worship: Ge 22:5; Ex 24:1; 34:14; De 4:19; 8:19; 11:16; 26:10; 30:17; Jos 5:14; 1Sa 1:3; 15:25,30; 1Ki 9:6; 12:30; 2Ki 5:18; 17:36; 18:22; 1Ch 16:29; 2Ch 7:19; 32:12; Ps 5:7; 22:27,29; 29:2; 45:11; 66:4; 81:9; 86:9; 95:6; 96:9; 97:7; 99:5,9; 132:7; 138:2; Isa 2:8,20; 27:13; 36:7; 46:6; 49:7; 66:23; Jer 7:2; 13:10; 25:6; 26:2; 44:19; Eze 46:2-3,9; Da 3:5,10,12,14-15,18,28; Mic 5:13; Zep 1:5; 2:11; Zec 14:16-17; Mt 2:2,8; 4:9-10; 15:9; Mr 7:7; Lu 4:7-8; 14:10; Joh 4:20-24; 12:20; Ac 7:42-43; 8:27; 17:23; 18:13; 24:11,14; 1Co 14:25; Php 3:3; Col 2:23; Heb 1:6; Re 3:9; 4:10; 9:20; 11:1; 13:8,12,15; 14:7,9,11; 15:4; 19:10; 22:8-9
pope(s): none
Bishops: Ac 1:20; 1Ti 3:1-2; Tit 1:7; 1Pe 2:25; Re 1:20-2:1; 2:8,12
Deacons: Ac 6:1-7; 1Ti 3:8,10,12-13
Elders: Ge 50:7; Ex 3:16,18; 4:29; 12:21; 17:5-6; 18:12; 19:7; 24:1,9,14; Le 4:15; 9:1; Nu 11:16,24-25,30; 16:25; 22:4,7; De 5:23; 19:12; 21:2-4,6,19-20; 22:15-18; 25:7-9; 27:1; 29:10; 31:9,28; 32:7; Jos 7:6; 8:10,33; 9:11; 20:4; 23:2; 24:1,31; Jg 2:7; 8:14,16; 11:5,7-11; 21:16; Ru 4:2,4,9,11; 1Sa 4:3; 8:4; 11:3; 15:30; 16:4; 30:26; 2Sa 3:17; 5:3; 12:17; 17:4,15; 19:11; 1Ki 8:1,3; 20:7-8; 21:8,11; 2Ki 6:32; 10:1,5; 19:2; 23:1; 1Ch 11:3; 15:25; 21:16; 2Ch 5:2,4; 34:29; Ezr 5:5,9; 6:7-8,14; 10:8,14; Ps 107:32; Jer 26:17; 29:1; La 1:19; 2:10; 4:16; 5:12,14; Eze 8:1; 14:1; 20:1,3; Mt 15:2; 16:21; 21:23; 26:3,47,57,59; 27:1,3,12,20,41; 28:12; Mr 7:3,5; 8:31; 11:27; 14:43,53; 15:1; Lu 7:3; 9:22; 20:1; 22:52,66; Ac 4:5,8,23; 6:12; 11:30; 14:23; 15:2,4,6,22-23; 16:4; 20:17; 21:18; 22:5; 23:14; 24:1; 25:15; 1Ti 5:17; Tit 1:5; Heb 11:2; Jas 5:14; 1Pe 5:1; Re 4:4,10; 5:5-6,8,11,14; 7:11,13; 11:16; 14:3; 19:4
Mary: (all) Mt 1:16,18,20; 2:11; 13:55; 27:56,61; 28:1; Mr 6:3; 15:40,47; 16:1,9; Lu 1:27,30,34,38-39,41,46,56; 2:5,16,19,34; 8:2; 10:39,42; 24:10; Joh 11:1-2,19-20,28,31-32,45; 12:3; 19:25; 20:1,11,16,18; Ac 1:14; 12:12; Ro 16:6
Mary sinless: Luke 1:46-47 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Romans 3:23

Humbly in Christ Jesus my LORD,
Luke 24

 

[apdias21]

Wormwood:

Such ornate religious structures are a product of Roman influence and not of Jesus. As I have mentioned in other threads, Jesus’ church was " not in a building of wood and stone" it was outside in God’s majesty. Statues and art are products of man and symbols of wealth, not objects of piety. You can call it what you want, but if you utter a prayer to anyone other than God, that is polytheism.

You aren’t praying to Mary or St. Peter that a judge have relief, when you pray to these people you are asking for some kind of intervention in your life or the life of someone close to you (indirectly your life). This is polytheism. If i had a statue of apollo in my house, and everytime something bad happened I asked apollo to please intervene or talk to God for me, is that not polytheism? BTW I am not a protestant either, as I believe them to also be too materialistic and earthly to truley impart divine wisdom. So protestants aren’t the only ones who feel this way…I have nothing to gain by condemning your practices, as I do not intend to convert your followers, I just wanted to offer an outside perspective.

 

[Shoshana]

In response to the quote of your about, ‘why do people think this way?’
Well, Christ even said that , ‘They hated me first than they will hate you as well.’ (not quoted word for word)

I have a brother who was baptized catholic/turned anglican/turned Calvary Gospel/turned Faith Tabernacle, I rarely quote Scripture because:

1. that is all they do and he interprets it as he sees fit
2. he uses Scripture as a weapon.

I lovingly, after 24 years of his abuse, gave him the book from Scott Hahn’s ‘Home to Rome’…with absolutely no reaction on his part. In his eyes, Roman Catholics are going to hell (which he put papers on everyone’s car at my daughter’s first communion 21 years ago! The paper, which I never saw btw because he knew the family’s cars, was laden with hate. My pastor approached me about this.) To this day he still hates Catholicism. BUT, when dad died two years ago he decided he was worthy of receiving communion as he, too, was catholic, as in universal.

Other than prayers there is no way of approaching him. I believe his hatred for Catholicism stems from a psychological source…but who knows?

So to quote Scripture to say that we will be hated because Jesus was hated first, well, he would use the same argument, and deem us persecuting him because he has the light!:crying:

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[apdias21]

Sir Wormwood, you must make a disdinction between idol and image, you are making confusion on this matter. An idol is something you regard as God, like an animal, a bull, a cat, like the Egiptians and Greeks, but an image or statue of Mary, Christ is completely different. We don´t need to a genius to understand it> God bless you.
Antonio

 

[Shoshana]

Is this the same Wormwood from ‘The Screwtape Letters’ ?

or the Wormwood from the OT??:

WORMWOOD: (Hb la’nah, GK apsinthos), the plant Artemisia. Because of its bitter taste, it is employed as a metaphor for sin. (Dt 29:17); Am5:7; 6:12); divine punishment (Je 9:14; 23:15; Lam 3:15, 19); disaster (Pro 5:4). The star of Apc 8:11 named Wormwood falls from the sky and renders water poisonous.

---

Dictionary of the Bible by John L. McKenzie, SJ

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[John_Henry]

Luke24:

You know, it never ceases to amaze me how people can be so blatantly critical about true Christians that hold to the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles, (I am not talking denomination here) and yet these critics never once use Scripture to back up their statements. I would like to challenge you all to a draw! As you research these verses you may have to read a chapter or two to get the full impact of what is being said, but it is well worth your time and your future.

Ah yes, the true Christian concerned about my “future”. Of course you are not talking about denominations, because to speak of them is to speak of the achilles heel of “true Christians”. Which of your glorious multivariate denominations holds the true key to the true “teachings of Jesus Christ and His apotles”? The ones that say baptism is the entrance into the covenant, or the ones that say it isn’t? The ones that say works are a necessary sign of salvation or the ones who deny this? The ones who say you can or the ones who say you can’t lose your salvation. My guess is it would be the ones who attend the Church of Mr. Luke24 and His Favorite Interpretations.

Traditions: Mt 15:2-3,6; Mr 7:3,5,8-9,13; Col 2:8; 2Th 3:6; 1Pe 1:18

Curiously incomplete list of Scriptures that bear on tradition there, True Christian.

Mary sinless: Luke 1:46-47 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Romans 3:23

Catholics agree that Mary was saved, True Christian. So I won’t bother going into the exegesis of the passage that demonstrates that Mary is here speaking of temporal salvation, because it is neither here nor there to the issue you bring up.

As for the rest of your master list of Scriptures (which the Catholic Church gave you) disproving the (Catholic) Faith of the Apostles, pick one topic and I am sure people will be a little more ready to engage in dialogue with you. But, I doubt you will be back. Your post has all the notes of a drive-by shooting.

Blessings on you, True Christian.