Catholics- Would you kill Joseph Smith?

[dianaiad]

Perhaps I misread you…

Touche’… But as to your original statement… I honestly cannot see a Catholic in this country being a part of killing someone like Joseph Smith. He posed no danger to Catholics, or anyone for that matter.

Like you, I can’t see where any good Catholic would be involved in a lynch mob, or a part of a murder squad…especially in this country…

Peace!!

OK.

I’ll admit that I was reacting to a specific statement…a pedantic and rather annoying habit of mine.

But this claim by several people, this aghast, holier than the Baptists gasp of horror that NO CATHOLIC WOULD EVER…kinda got to me.

Catholics are people.
Mormons are people.

People screw up.

and frankly, the first step on the road to doing something truly horrifying seems to be this absolute certitude that simple membership in a specific belief system ensures righteous behavior.

Seems to me that the first protection AGAINST ever doing something like this is admitting that, yeah. under some circumstances it would be possible–so that we can guard against it.

 

[rinnie]

If Joseph Smith were alive today, preaching the restored gospel, establishing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, would you kill him? Please assume that you will not be punished by the law, as those who did kill him were not punished.

I have read much on this forum, by Catholics, implying approval of the killing of Joseph Smith. For example. “he died in a gun fight” (one against 200), he was a con man, h was a polygmamist, etc.

What kind of question is that? Why would you ask a Catholic if he would break one of the ten commandments. I have never heard of a Catholic ever say it is okay to break a commandment just because someone opposes the Church.

Just because Joseph Smith went against the Catholic Church and the bible does not mean we could do that too.

 

[dianaiad]

Diana,

I am simply amazed… I thought I knew a bit about US history… but I have to tell you… I learned something today!!!

I had never heard of the Missouri Extermination Order, much less the 1976 Rescission Order… and here, for those who doubt it, is the State of Missouri Secretary of State’s website that has the documents in digital images: sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/findingaids/miscMormonRecords.asp?rec=eo

Even though I am not from Missouri…as an American I find what I learned today to be more than shameful… Words to describe what I feel elude me…

Yeah, it comes as a surprise to a lot of people.

But don’t feel too bad; the history of the USA has a great many episodes as bad, or worse, than this one, against many different religions and groups. Religious and racial persecution seems to be something we have always been either fighting–or perpetrating. It is to our very great credit, I think, that we’ve survived!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The USA deserves what happened on Sept 11 2001

Gottle, no matter how annoyed you might be at certain posters, that remark absolutely crosses the line. . . Please, think it over and consider withdrawing a remark ‘in the heat of anger’. Nobody here in the U.S. is perfect, but none of us ‘deserves’ to have 3000 people murdered in cold blood 'for the sins, real and/or ‘perceived’, of their government. It shocks me to see such a statement coming from a poster whom I sincerely respect as a Christian.

 

[ferdie]

##The USA deserves what happened on Sept 11 2001

I am sure that you haven’t experience the pain of terrorism nor your relatives nor friends. I wonders how the relatives and friends of the 911 victims will react to this.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I am a Catholic, and as such I do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God or that the institution he helped found was divinely inspired or willed by God. I do recognize that many people feel close to God in their worship in Mormon temples and that the Book of Mormon, as well as their vision of Joseph Smith, inspires many men and women to lead good lives and seek to please the Lord. This is good and underscores the truth that God’s grace is boundless and is present to all those who sincerely seek to live in God’s light. As a Catholic I could never approve of or support the murder of any man or woman, no matter who they might be, without jeopardizing my own faith and falling short of God,s will for his followers. Joseph Smith may have been guilty of many things that people of his time and of this time find abhorrent and unworthy of a follower of Christ, but in the end he was unjustly murdered and it should not have happened. No, I would not have killed Joseph Smith, but I do pray for him and those who have followed his teachings.

read Luke:16:19-31 That is why we need the truth proclaimed now more than ever,for the Lord is coming back soon and who will stand?

 

[dianaiad]

We do.

And though we are not pacifists, we do not promote violence or civil disorder.

Are we weird? Well, I don’t think so. But then I am somewhat biased in that regard.

 

[rinnie]

Gottle, People deserve to die, what church is it that you get your teachings from?

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Hi

Who was this Brigham Young, please?

Thanks

Brigham Young was the 2nd president of the mormon church and had 56 wifes:banghead: and got cought alot:crying: and murdered alot of people in a bloody masacre,to get even for Smiths being killed.He was a nut:sad_yes: Nancy

 

[RobHom]

OK.

I’ll admit that I was reacting to a specific statement…a pedantic and rather annoying habit of mine.

Fair enough…

But this claim by several people, this aghast, holier than the Baptists gasp of horror that NO CATHOLIC WOULD EVER…kinda got to me.

I know what you mean… But I can only speak for myself ad those that I actually know well enough to be able to surmise what they may or may not do under certain conditions.

Catholics are people.
Mormons are people.

People screw up.

Say AMEN!! to that… People prove it every day…

and frankly, the first step on the road to doing something truly horrifying seems to be this absolute certitude that simple membership in a specific belief system ensures righteous behavior.

Do I detect a small dose of “playful sarcasm”?

Seems to me that the first protection AGAINST ever doing something like this is admitting that, yeah. under some circumstances it would be possible–so that we can guard against it.

Ahhh, insightful!! Sounds like someone has some “psyche” training… or is a real pragmatic thinker. I agree.

 

[dianaiad]

Brigham Young was the 2nd president of the mormon church and had 56 wifes:banghead: and got cought alot:crying: and murdered alot of people in a bloody masacre,to get even for Smiths being killed.He was a nut:sad_yes: Nancy

Well, at least you got the 56 wives part right. Mind you, the vast majority of them were widows and older ladies who, though ‘sealed’ to him never actually lived with him, or had sexual relations with him.

It looks as if he had about 17 wives with whom he actually lived; 16 of them gave him a total of 57 children, 46 of whom grew to adulthood. Lots of Youngs in Utah.

As to the rest of your post, the ‘banging head’ icon seems rather appropriate…

 

[dianaiad]

Seems to me that the first protection AGAINST ever doing something like this is admitting that, yeah. under some circumstances it would be possible--so that we can guard against it.

Ahhh, insightful!! Sounds like someone has some “psyche” training… or is a real pragmatic thinker. I agree.

Pragmatic? Maybe. Mostly just experience and an unfortunate compulsion to read history books…

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Yeah, it comes as a surprise to a lot of people.

But don’t feel too bad; the history of the USA has a great many episodes as bad, or worse, than this one, against many different religions and groups. Religious and racial persecution seems to be something we have always been either fighting–or perpetrating. It is to our very great credit, I think, that we’ve survived!

Dont you know how big the Mormon church is? They gave that information to that archive and they reported what they wanted,they were chased out for their beliefs. Smith was a Mason who swear to oaths to protect every brother no matter if he"s wrong or not but Smith put his hand up for help and no one in his group helped him. He must have done something to tick his own kind off,like mabe taking privilages on the woman there? Look up all you can now before they own the net because they are extremly rich,and buy,and build.They want the Catholics to join their group because they know it is the true church. And they base alot of their teachings on Catholics,Believe me I know,and most of them still believe philogamy will return,yes their looking forward to it. What I tell you is true.the wolf is at the door.Nancy

 

[dianaiad]

Dont you know how big the Mormon church is?

Uh…yeah. as a matter of fact. I do.

They gave that information to that archive and they reported what they wanted,they were chased out for their beliefs. Smith was a Mason who swear to oaths to protect every brother no matter if he"s wrong or not but Smith put his hand up for help and no one in his group helped him. He must have done something to tick his own kind off,like mabe taking privilages on the woman there? Look up all you can now before they own the net because they are extremly rich,and buy,and build.They want the Catholics to join their group because they know it is the true church. And they base alot of their teachings on Catholics,Believe me I know,and most of them still believe philogamy

“philogamy?”

I just wrote about some very creative ways to spell English words, but this one sounds vaguely…Socratic, or the science of examining head bumps…

will return,yes their looking forward to it.

WE ARE???

Wow. News to me. I’m going to have to have a word or two with my hubby about that, when next we speak. Mind you, that’s going to be awhile, but I’ll save up.

What I tell you is true.the wolf is at the door.Nancy

Perhaps he is, Nancy, but if he’s a Mormon wolf, you won’t recognize him, because your idea of what he looks like doesn’t match reality.

 

[rinnie]

Well, at least you got the 56 wives part right. Mind you, the vast majority of them were widows and older ladies who, though ‘sealed’ to him never actually lived with him, or had sexual relations with him.

It looks as if he had about 17 wives with whom he actually lived; 16 of them gave him a total of 57 children, 46 of whom grew to adulthood. Lots of Youngs in Utah.

As to the rest of your post, the ‘banging head’ icon seems rather appropriate…

Oh okay, 17 wives instead of 56. That makes Adultery okay then? I always thought that according to the teachings of Jesus Christ one wife was all you could have? They do claim to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ right?

 

[BartBurk]

If Joseph Smith were alive today, preaching the restored gospel, establishing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, would you kill him? Please assume that you will not be punished by the law, as those who did kill him were not punished.

I have read much on this forum, by Catholics, implying approval of the killing of Joseph Smith. For example. “he died in a gun fight” (one against 200), he was a con man, h was a polygmamist, etc.

Read your history. Catholics weren’t involved in the killing of Joseph Smith. It was done by Protestants and former Mormons. Why would Catholics try to kill Joseph Smith today? Stupid question.

 

[dianaiad]

Oh okay, 17 wives instead of 56. That makes Adultery okay then? I always thought that according to the teachings of Jesus Christ one wife was all you could have? They do claim to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ right?

Excuse me, but whether YOU like it or not, they were married. That means…no adultery.

As well, Jesus didn’t say a thing about only having one wife.

By the way, we haven’t practiced polygamy for over a hundred years. Where have you been?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Excuse me, but whether YOU like it or not, they were married. That means…no adultery.

As well, Jesus didn’t say a thing about only having one wife.

By the way, we haven’t practiced polygamy for over a hundred years. Where have you been?

NO ADULTERY WHAT ARE YOU SAYING,AND WHO SAID THEY HAVE NOT PRACTICED POLYGAMY OVER A HUNDRED YEARS IS NOT THE TRUTH . THEY GOT IT DOWN PAT NOW AND DONT HAVE TO PRACTIC ANY MORE

 

[rinnie]

Excuse me, but whether YOU like it or not, they were married. That means…no adultery.

As well, Jesus didn’t say a thing about only having one wife.

By the way, we haven’t practiced polygamy for over a hundred years. Where have you been?

Yes he really did. He actually went as far to say you should not even lust after another women or man if you are married. He said what God has joined together let no one come between. That means if I get married in the Church I cannot have another person at all. The same for a women or man.

 

[rinnie]

NO ADULTERY WHAT ARE YOU SAYING,AND WHO SAID THEY HAVE NOT PRACTICED POLYGAMY OVER A HUNDRED YEARS IS NOT THE TRUTH . THEY GOT IT DOWN PAT NOW AND DONT HAVE TO PRACTIC ANY MORE

good one