Catholics- Would you kill Joseph Smith?

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KestrelRose said:
I could not assume that God’s law “Thou shall not kill” wouldn’t be enforced.

If there are “Catholics” who imply approval of such a deed, they need to do some serious soul searching. The ends never justify the means.

Joseph Smith died at the hands of a mob. Mobs in general are ruled by stupidity and hatred. This has nothing to do with either Catholicism or Christainity in general.
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The general consensus from the folks in here seems to be:
  1. OF course we wouldn’t do it NOW…
  2. But the folks who did it then weren’t so bad because
  3. Joseph Smith deserved it.
 
Fun to be on the receiving end isn’t it? You have been doing this for months on Mormonism, and wasn’t it you who went after those missionaries?
 
dianaiad said:
The general consensus from the folks in here seems to be:
  1. OF course we wouldn’t do it NOW…
  2. But the folks who did it then weren’t so bad because
  3. Joseph Smith deserved it.
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By their fruits you will know them. The original Christians? I think not. Here is your proof for the apostasy.
 
dianaiad said:
The general consensus from the folks in here seems to be:
  1. OF course we wouldn’t do it NOW…
  2. But the folks who did it then weren’t so bad because
  3. Joseph Smith deserved it.
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I’ve read the same sort of reasoning by LDS about MMM:
  1. Of course we wouldn’t do that now.
  2. But the folks who did it then weren’t so bad because.
  3. They were traumatized by what happened to them in MO.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I’ve read the same sort of reasoning by LDS about MMM:
  1. Of course we wouldn’t do that now.
  2. But the folks who did it then weren’t so bad because.
  3. They were traumatized by what happened to them in MO.
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I’ve been here…what…ten days? And it’s taken this long for someone to bring up MMM to attack us with it?

Well, here’s the deal:
  1. Of course we wouldn’t do that now.
  2. It was a horror then.
  3. Many, if not most, of the men who did it were excommunicated or ran away; John D Lee, one of the leaders, was tried for his role in it, and executed in the same meadow the massacre occurred on. It wasn’t enough, but it was more justice than Joseph got–HIS killers were not only exonerated, they were rewarded.
As to what the church thinks of it? Why, here: tinyurl.com/2mr3wn

It’s an article about the MMM, in our church magazine, the Ensign.

THAT is what we think about it. You will notice that nobody excuses it. Nobody justifies it.
 
dianaiad said:
The general consensus from the folks in here seems to be:
  1. OF course we wouldn’t do it NOW…
  2. But the folks who did it then weren’t so bad because
  3. Joseph Smith deserved it.
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🙂 Hello Diana can you explain in doctrine and covenants what section 132:1-4 is covering? Thank You Nancy:rolleyes:
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
🙂 Hello Diana can you explain in doctrine and covenants what section 132:1-4 is covering? Thank You Nancy:rolleyes:
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I see.

Thank you, Nancy, for illustrating the attitude I allueded to, especially points # 2 and # 3: that the the actions of the original murderers weren’t so bad because Joseph deserved it.

Do you really think that polygamy is a capital offense…with the sentence being carried out before the trial?

Diana
 
dianaiad said:
I’ve been here…what…ten days? And it’s taken this long for someone to bring up MMM to attack us with it?

Well, here’s the deal:
  1. Of course we wouldn’t do that now.
  2. It was a horror then.
  3. Many, if not most, of the men who did it were excommunicated or ran away; John D Lee, one of the leaders, was tried for his role in it, and executed in the same meadow the massacre occurred on. It wasn’t enough, but it was more justice than Joseph got–HIS killers were not only exonerated, they were rewarded.
As to what the church thinks of it? Why, here: tinyurl.com/2mr3wn

It’s an article about the MMM, in our church magazine, the Ensign.

THAT is what we think about it. You will notice that nobody excuses it. Nobody justifies it.
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I’m not using MMM to attack you just to note that your description of people’s reaction here, is the same reaction I’ve seen from LDS posters when discussing it. I am talking about your words about people here.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I’m not using MMM to attack you just to note that your description of people’s reaction here, is the same reaction I’ve seen from LDS posters when discussing it. I am talking about your words about people here.
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I don’t think that that you have ever seen a Mormon approve of what happened at Mountain Meadows, or excuse it, or blame the Fanchers for their own deaths, or say that what happened to them was all right because they actually shot back.

Have you had people attempt to put it in context and explain the motives? I’m sure you have. I could write reams. But if you’ve ever seen anybody, say that the Fanchers deserved what happened to them, or justify it, or excuse it, point me at 'em. I’ll give 'em an earful. Or an eyeful.

But I don’t think you are going to be able to find anybody who has done so.
 
dianaiad said:
I don’t think that that you have ever seen a Mormon approve of what happened at Mountain Meadows, or excuse it, or blame the Fanchers for their own deaths, or say that what happened to them was all right because they actually shot back.

Have you had people attempt to put it in context and explain the motives? I’m sure you have. I could write reams. But if you’ve ever seen anybody, say that the Fanchers deserved what happened to them, or justify it, or excuse it, point me at 'em. I’ll give 'em an earful. Or an eyeful.

But I don’t think you are going to be able to find anybody who has done so.
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You obviously didn’t grow up in Utah Valley did you…🤷

in Christ
Steph
 
dianaiad said:
It has everything to do with the statement that a Catholic wouldn’t participate in such a thing.

Being Catholic didn’t stop the terrorists in Ireland, did it?

Therefore, it is not true that simply being a Catholic would prevent someone from participating in such an action.

On the other hand, lighten up. I’m the one that pointed out that there weren’t any Catholics involved in the real murder of JS. AT least, I don’t think there were.
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Catholics are humans, and humans have done all kinds of things. That’s not the question. When someone asks if a Catholic would do something, they mean an idealized Catholic, one that follows all the rules. If someone asked if Catholics can kill innocent people, the answer is no. If they ask if Catholics can use the “morning-after pill”, the answer is no. They are not asking for the exception, but rather the rule.
 
dianaiad said:
I don’t think that that you have ever seen a Mormon approve of what happened at Mountain Meadows, or excuse it, or blame the Fanchers for their own deaths, or say that what happened to them was all right because they actually shot back.

Have you had people attempt to put it in context and explain the motives? I’m sure you have. I could write reams. But if you’ve ever seen anybody, say that the Fanchers deserved what happened to them, or justify it, or excuse it, point me at 'em. I’ll give 'em an earful. Or an eyeful.

But I don’t think you are going to be able to find anybody who has done so.
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Of course I’ve never seen it because the words of LDS are explanation while those of others are must be justification not explanation.
 
🙂
dianaiad said:
I see.

Thank you, Nancy, for illustrating the attitude I allueded to, especially points # 2 and # 3: that the the actions of the original murderers weren’t so bad because Joseph deserved it.

Do you really think that polygamy is a capital offense…with the sentence being carried out before the trial?

Diana
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🙂 Hi,to answer your question,Joseph Smith was a human being and did not deserve to die in such a manner nor did Hyrum,or anyone else. It’s true he broke commandments and changed the word of God to suit his purpose,but murder.is murder. Therefor,all involved are just as guilty of sin,as Joseph and his clan.Also I’d like to add,that I have Mormon friends that I would defend with my life, if I had to,theirs no doubt in my mind they are beautiful people,and I see your point Joseph should have had a trial, for I believe that no matter how you sin murder is to me the very worst,and abortion. Love of Christ Nancy:wave: Love is the key:love:
 
Tsuwano said:
I do recognize that many people feel close to God in their worship in Mormon temples and that the Book of Mormon, as well as their vision of Joseph Smith, inspires many men and women to lead good lives and seek to please the Lord. This is good and underscores the truth that God’s grace is boundless and is present to all those who sincerely seek to live in God’s light.

and

No, I would not have killed Joseph Smith, but I do pray for him and those who have followed his teachings.
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These seem to be contradictory comments… you recognize the good (and the evil of the murder) on one hand and you pray for the believers as if to say they follow amiss.

One true indication for identifying a prophet according to the scriptures is that you will know them by their works… The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints stands as a witness to all the world today that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet of God.

Latter-day Saints and Catholics have stood side by side on many moral and social issues to date. Catholic or any other man who has it in their heart to murder, ought to reconsider their ways regardless of their belief of his calling.

I love the Prophet Joseph Smith - and if you knew him like I do, you’d love him too.

Vinny
 
it’s not my job to kill someone for being a heretic. that’s the state’s job. if the state of a catholic country thought that his ideas were gravely dangerous to the public, and there were no other options, then capital punishment could be justified.

besides, killing him may only make him into a martyr. better to have the state lock him up for being a threat to the common good. of course we live in a pluralistic society and not a catholic one. therefore the state doesn’t have the ability to charge someone with heresy.
 
VinnyDee78 said:
These seem to be contradictory comments… you recognize the good (and the evil of the murder) on one hand and you pray for the believers as if to say they follow amiss.

One true indication for identifying a prophet according to the scriptures is that you will know them by their works… The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints stands as a witness to all the world today that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet of God.

Latter-day Saints and Catholics have stood side by side on many moral and social issues to date. Catholic or any other man who has it in their heart to murder, ought to reconsider their ways regardless of their belief of his calling.

I love the Prophet Joseph Smith - and if you knew him like I do, you’d love him too.

Vinny
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Dear Vinny, I read your profile and since your of a scientific nature,did you know thatSimon Southreton pHD(molecular Biology) DNA who was a bishop for LDS along with DOC.Dennis ORourke Uni.Utah Thomas Murphy Mormon Anthropologist and doctor of DNA and Randolph Shortridge DNA who are all Mormons,told the whole world on tv,that Joseph Smith was a lier and a false prophet? Indians came from Asia and are not the decendents of Lamanites,nor the Myans or the mexicans? How can you love a false prophet?:rolleyes: Nancy
 
nancy_dalrymple said:
Dear Vinny, I read your profile and since your of a scientific nature,did you know thatSimon Southreton pHD(molecular Biology) DNA who was a bishop for LDS along with DOC.Dennis ORourke Uni.Utah Thomas Murphy Mormon Anthropologist and doctor of DNA and Randolph Shortridge DNA who are all Mormons,told the whole world on tv,that Joseph Smith was a lier and a false prophet? Indians came from Asia and are not the decendents of Lamanites,nor the Myans or the mexicans? How can you love a false prophet?:rolleyes: Nancy
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Hi Nancy - Yes I am an engineer, but DNA is not my specialty. I have read other articles refuting their scientology and quite frankly will leave that discussion to those who want to see the tablets before they believe the ten commandments are from God.

Joseph Smith lead me to my knowledge that Jesus is the Christ. No scientist, atheist, or person of any other denomination, religion or creed can convince me otherwise. Who brought you to a knowledge of the Savior? Was it a person? If it was, would you love them for that… I think so, perhaps more than you know.

I taught the Book of Mormon all last year and its principles are true - more true than the time I had to teach. Just as the Catholics accept seven more books than the Protestants, we too accept the truths contained therein.

I do love him as a true prophet. And will always be grateful for his role in these, the latter days.

In all sincerity - Vinny
 
To Vinney,Did you teach all the book of Mormons?Doctrine and covents?A Quote from Joseph Smith,doctrine and covents 132 verse 61-64(sorry vin)“And again pertaining to the law of the priesthood-if any man espouse a virgin,and desire to espose another,and the first give her consent,and if he espose the second,and they are virgins and have vowed to no other man,then he is justified:he cannot commit adultry for they are given unto him:for he cannot comit adultry with that that belongeth unto him,and to no one else.62:And if he have 10 virgins,given unto him by this law,he cannot commit adultery,for they belong to him,and they are given unto him,therefore he is justified.63:But if one or either of the 10 virgins,after she is expoused,shall be with another man,she has commited adultery,and shall be destroyed,for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth,according to my commandment,and to forfill the promise which was given by my father before the foundations of the world,and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds,that they may bear the souls of men:for herein is the work of my father continued,that he may be glorified. 64: And again,verily,verily,I say unto you,if any man have a wife,who holds the keys of this power,and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood,as pertaining to these things,then shall she believe,and administer unto him,or she shall be destroyed,saith the Lord your God:for I will destroy her:for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law” Now tell me honestly what God do you serve and teach?:eek: Nancy
 
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