Cdl. Dolan: The Democrats abandon Catholics

[Pup7]

Edited because despite my fairly decent public school education, I’m clearly functionally illiterate. Feel free to read the edits.

 

[Luke6_37]

Don’t get me wrong! You & I are totally on the same page.

You need to look at how comments are embedded inside other comments. I was responding to @pnewton’s response to your comment - not your comment itself.

Sorry for any confusion!

 

[Pup7]

Okay…CRAWLING BACK UNDER MY ROCK.

You’re right. I completely missed that. Clearly time for new contacts.

 

[Luke6_37]

It’s an easy mistake! I have really enjoyed your comments and insight. I learned a lot from reading your posts!

 

[Pup7]

Thanks.

Now I feel even more sheepish for my oversight. At least we are on good terms.

 

[Luke6_37]

Great terms!

 

[pnewton]

First off, both of my children attend the local public schools

I am glad they have a good school.

Nonetheless, our Church believes there is justice needed in this area, as I quoted above. “To assist them in this sacred duty, the Church has articulated clearly that children have the universal right to an education in faith, and the state has the fundamental obligation to enable such a right. In both written word and lived witness, the Church has advanced parental choice as a fundamental part of its mission to protect the equality of educational opportunity that is the birthright of all children”

It is interesting that this is an issue that both liberal Democrats and conservative people of faith embrace.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

First off, both of my children attend the local public schools

I am glad they have a good school.

Nonetheless, our Church believes there is justice needed in this area, as I quoted above. “To assist them in this sacred duty, the Church has articulated clearly that children have the universal right to an education in faith, and the state has the fundamental obligation to enable such a right. In both written word and lived witness, the Church has advanced parental choice as a fundamental part of its mission to protect the equality of educational opportunity that is the birthright of all children”

It is interesting that this is an issue that both liberal Democrats and conservative people of faith embrace.

They do have a good school, but better still, they had a great Religious Education program.

The Church doesn’t need a handout from the state to educate it’s youth, it just needs to adjust it’s priorities. The injustice comes from clinging to an outdated school model that was only ever sustainable by the free labor of women religious. The solution isn’t to demand handouts from the state, it’s to fully fund & support parish-based Religious Education programs. They are much cheaper & just as effective.

I gave a lot of specific examples of what the public schools in my town do to “enable” parents to educate their children in the faith. They are doing their part. It’s the Bishops who are failing to support parents & children.

 

[Annie]

OTOH, not all schools are as good as the ones you have. I have never heard of a school in the US reminding children of their catechism catechism classes!

Another problem is that many schools teach against Christianity. As a brief example, one of my children’s texts said an angel came to Mohammed, but only that the Apostles said that Jesus was resurrected.

 

[Luke6_37]

OTOH, not all schools are as good as the ones you have. I have never heard of a school in the US reminding children of their catechism catechism classes!

Another problem is that many schools teach against Christianity. As a brief example, one of my children’s texts said an angel came to Mohammed, but only that the Apostles said that Jesus was resurrected.

Perhaps the reason why more public schools don’t send out reminders to parents to sign up for CCD is because local parishes are not asking them to. My parish makes sure we are treated no different from any other group who submit flyers for the school emailing. If the local Boys & Girls club can send out reminders for their programs, we can too.

It’s important to resist the impulse to retreat inside a Catholic bubble. The Church may not have a privileged position, but that doesn’t mean we can’t make ourselves visible in the public square. If Christianity can thrive in pagan Rome, it can thrive in a secular space. We just need to get out there and start converting people.

For example, our local Chamber of Commerce sponsors a “Town Day” on the town common each year that is a big community event. For years our church didn’t participate. Three years ago we realized that was dumb, so we signed up for a double booth. Now we are a big presence at a secular event that is literally on the town square. All sorts of people come to our booth.

Our latest effort is to get the Public Library to allow us to use one of their meeting rooms to offer to pray with people who don’t feel comfortable going to church. If a group can offer free yoga lessons, or free mental health counseling, we should be able to offer free nondenominational prayer. It may freak out some folks at the Library, but nothing ventured, nothing gained!

I agree with you on the school text books and am glad you noticed that. With all the new historical research on the actual facts regarding the emergence of Islam, it’s important that parents push back against false assertions in text books. You may need to talk to the school board or whoever approves the text books for the school. Gabriel Said Reynolds of Notre Dame is a great source regarding the actual historicity of Islam. You won’t get them to alter the text on Jesus, but they may change the text on Muhammad.

 

[Annie]

You do have a point about getting out there, but a lot of places either are or believe they are bound not to in any way support anything religious. For example, rural public transportation is forbidden from taking people to churches for church services like Mass altho they can take them for a church picnic.

 

[pnewton]

The Church doesn’t need a handout from the state to educate it’s youth, it just needs to adjust it’s priorities. The injustice comes from clinging to an outdated school model that was only ever sustainable by the free labor of women religious.

Your view that this is a handout is not mine. I think you are dead wrong and backwards with it. School tuition is always still paid by the parents. Asking that parents who pay for tuition in a private school to pay less in taxes in a public school is not a state handout, any more that a tax-deductible contribution is a payment from the federal government.

The Church disagrees with you, as I quoted above. I can’t say this often enough. I know many view the Church as outdated, which is why there are so many splinter denominations.

What is seriously skewed is the idea of the State as the primary force in formation of the minds of the children, though it explains why we have the current decline of morality in Western civilization. We train each generation to be more secular-minded.

To assist them in this sacred duty, the Church has articulated clearly that children have the

It’s important to resist the impulse to retreat inside a Catholic bubble.

This is a common myth of religious education, thinking of Catholic schools like some cloister.

 

[Luke6_37]

Catholic schools are an innovation of the 19th century. We are talking about a prudential issue, not a doctrinal one. No need to schism over this.

By “the Church”, what you really mean are the Bishops. They can certainly be behind the times when it comes to educating young Catholics. They have been before. For nearly 2,000 years, they never gave a thought to universal literacy or free education for all. They were content with illiterate Catholic peasants knowing nothing but their basic catechism & prayers. Education was for the sons of those who could afford it. In Italy, it wasn’t until Mussolini made education compulsory up to the 3rd grade that my aunts were even allowed to go to school.

I don’t see the injustice of the State providing all kids with the opportunity to attend school regardless of ability to pay. Catholic parents are free to choose a different option if they want, but they should still fully support the public school, just like folks who don’t have kids at all do.

 

[Luke6_37]

I’ve never heard anything like that, but I live in the suburbs. How far away is your church?

 

[pnewton]

By “the Church”, what you really mean are the Bishops.

Yes. In accordance to canon law, leading the people in regional issues is one of the tasks of a conference of bishops, that is, promoting the greater good that the Church offers to their nation. That is how the Church works.

 

[Annie]

I myself also live in the suburbs. I got this information from a friend involved in another church in a different state.

I’m just pointing out that the situation with the schools in your area is not what we find everywhere. I might even suggest that it is unusual.

 

[Luke6_37]

I myself also live in the suburbs. I got this information from a friend involved in another church in a different state.

I’m just pointing out that the situation with the schools in your area is not what we find everywhere. I might even suggest that it is unusual.

Like I said, nothing ventured, nothing gained. You can’t be timid or a snowflake. Not being granted a special privilege is not the same as being banned. Lots of folks fail to realize that.

 

[Raxus]

If they are to assimilate and become Americans, they need to go through the same process as every other religious/ethnic group has had to endure as part of the American experience. If they don’t, they will never shed those aspects of a Muslim identity that are antithetical to Western values - especially values that center on equality and religious liberty.

I think you hit the ball out of the park on this one.

Islam, in its current incarnation in the Middle East, cannot in my opinion be seen as an actual religion in practice; it is more a totalitarian form of government, and one that embraces extreme violence and bigotry to bring the people under it into line.

 

[pnewton]

You can’t be timid or a snowflake.

“Snowflake” sure has been used a lot. Public education could just as easily be seen as helping snowflakes, by paying for their kids education through taxes instead of letting the kids buck up and work off their school expenses. Education used to be pay as you go.

Using public education for assimilation into the current political ideology is nothing new. It is very easily misused.

 

[CaptFun]

Last year, Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez insisted that pro-life candidates have no place in the modern Democratic Party.”

It happens every once in awhile. I agree with … somebody I totally disagree with.

Totally agree with what he SAID

( - at this point!) …

… but I see " … pro-life candidates have no place in the modern Democratic Party … " more along the lines of:

2 Corinthians 6:17 - Therefore, come forth from them
and be separate,” says the Lord,
“and touch nothing unclean;
then I will receive you

Or

Matthew 12: 33 - “Either declare* the tree good and its fruit is good, or declare the tree rotten and its fruit is rotten, for a tree is known by its fruit.

kind of a thing.

It’s that paradox of a thing that is so bad … it’s good (per eventual results).

This DNC Chair is so boldly intolerant that some who were formerly lukewarm are liable to get hot at … or cold toward … said party. Remember, THIS is their CHAIR … not a marginal DNC loose canon.

Dolan was possibly trying to be diplomatically neutral and genteel in the past (I’m thinking about him presiding over the Al Smith Dinners that both party’s candidates are invited to … in the midst of a Presidential election).

We pray for our Pope and Bishops and priests, and also our political leaders at daily masses around the world. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that sometimes prayers work and some of our leaders get better.

And some that continue on a wrong road perhaps are kept from doing the damage they’d desire.

Thank you Cardinal Dolan. May I thank you again soon. As I’d never done before.

Thank YOU Chairman Perez.

And welcome all pro-life Democratic candidates who do leave that party.

Unless they should run and win and start a pro-life trend there, where it’s most needed.

- You weren’t explicitly mentioned, but … thank you TOO Representative Lipinsky. It’s better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.

– that about covers all my thinking on the matter. I’ll return soon and see what sense I’ve made of it all.

LIFE is worth fighting for!