Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

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Brendan said:
Kudo’s to this Dentist for protecting the pride from genetic stagnation. 👍
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This statement is false and irrational. The actions of this man were senseless and immoral - the antithesis of a Christian. Lucifer probably thought it was cool though - I will give you that.
 
Brendan said:
All indications are that a valid permit was issued by the government on behalf of the park authority to cull a male lion.
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Which would explain why he has gone into hiding and why Zimbabwe is seeking his extradition.:rolleyes:

Also, letting your prey take 40 hours to die is perfectly acceptable? Just look at how this has effected the reputation of hunting.
Brendan said:
And it is precisely the dominant male that are desired to by culled. This opens up the pride to be dominated by an outside male, and thus introducing a new genetic line.
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So the new alpha male kills all the Cubs. How is this a good thing?

No, if the population is too high, males are the obvious ones to cull, but absolutely not the current alpha male.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Perhaps not that lion. Nobody here is defending the error though the details at this time are unclear.
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Not true, apparently. See post #478

I am not against hunting, or hunting lions, just against sloppy incompetent hunting. Of anything.
 
Palmer’s South Florida vacation home was vandalized. No need for that. I think it’s best to let Zimbabwe ask for extradition, which they are in the process of doing. If people feel Palmer should be extradited, nothing speaks louder than petitions to the government. Sure, they usually ignore them, but with enough signatures, they really have to do something, even Obama, who ignores more than most presidents, and I’m a Democrat. (I won’t vote for Trump, but I’m almost tempted to vote Republican next election. I hope Biden - I know he’s a Democrat - runs. He seems trustworthy and knowledgeable. At least he has experience as a politician.)

I care about stopping abortion. I care about violence toward the innocent anywhere. I care that there was almost another movie theater shooting. I care about a lot of things, but I still care about Cecil.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I care about stopping abortion. I care about violence toward the innocent anywhere. I care that there was almost another movie theater shooting. I care about a lot of things, but I still care about Cecil.
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Did you care about Cecil before he became the cause of the latest Twitter outrage? Did you even know about him? What do you think gazelles and other critters think of Cecil? Do you think they’ll mourn him?

In real life, as opposed to Disney, Cecil the lion was the apex predator. He killed and ate other living creatures. When he became the alpha male of his pride, he likely killed all the children of his predecessor and raped the females of the pride. If he lived much longer, he would have been ousted from his pride by a younger, stronger male, who would have killed his young and raped the females of the pride, and then Cecil would have become a danger to the humans living near him, because male lions aren’t great hunters, especially old ones, and humans are easy prey. Cecil wasn’t a cute little kitty, he was a vicious predator.
 
ucfengr said:
Did you care about Cecil before he became the cause of the latest Twitter outrage? Did you even know about him? What do you think gazelles and other critters think of Cecil? Do you think they’ll mourn him?

In real life, as opposed to Disney, Cecil the lion was the apex predator. He killed and ate other living creatures. When he became the alpha male of his pride, he likely killed all the children of his predecessor and raped the females of the pride. If he lived much longer, he would have been ousted from his pride by a younger, stronger male, who would have killed his young and raped the females of the pride, and then Cecil would have become a danger to the humans living near him, because male lions aren’t great hunters, especially old ones, and humans are easy prey. Cecil wasn’t a cute little kitty, he was a vicious predator.
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Is this an infantile, illiterate joke? Maybe best to back off the Hemingway books. Lions ruling Africa was a while ago. I think most of us living in the 21 century know that.

African Lion Populations Drop 42 Percent in Past 21 Years
blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/african-lion-populations-drop-42-percent-in-past-21-years/
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Is this an infantile, illiterate joke? Maybe best to back off the Hemingway books. Lions ruling Africa was a while ago. I think most of us living in the 21 century know that.

African Lion Populations Drop 42 Percent in Past 21 Years
blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/african-lion-populations-drop-42-percent-in-past-21-years/
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It would appear that Western people in the 21st century know very little about lions, and what they think they know they learned from watching “The Lion King” and “Kimba the White Lion”.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
It’s my understanding that he didn’t “let” the lion take 40 hours to die, the pursuit took 40 hours.

.
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Sounds to me like his guides were incompetent at the very least. Normally, in big game hunting, the “customer” has a backup among the guides who is a crack marksman. The marksman shoots at about the same time the “customer” does. If the customer’s bullet doesn’t kill, the guide’s does.

If they were such bad shots that they had to track this lion for 40 hours, they have no business being hunter guides.
 
ucfengr said:
It would appear that Western people in the 21st century know very little about lions, and what they think they know they learned from watching “The Lion King” and “Kimba the White Lion”.
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Sorry, never seen either one. We did not have a TV for most of my childhood. I read a lot.

You might try Balzac - psychological realism - amazing stuff. Not unlike your lion lifestyle description above, but a study of human behavior. Or maybe Emile Zola.
 
ucfengr said:
In Tanzania, lions kill between 50 and 60 people per year. Does anybody have compassion for them? Does the “White Man’s Burden” extend to protecting people or only animals?

livescience.com/391-lions-people-killing-tanzania.html
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I do. 🙂 Am I thus obligated to support senseless, cruel killings of lions?

I intensely dislike pitbulls. I would never shoot one with an arrow and let it wander around for 40 hours. I have no desire to hurt them at all. Where I live they present a much more present danger than lions. I passed a teenage girl in the park with a loose pitbill about a month ago. Nothing happened other than the dog getting a little excited and thinking about a lunge. She calmed it down, thank God.

Local (US) human against human violence stats:
Violent Crime - FBI statistics for 2013
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Code: 
In 2013, an estimated 1,163,146 violent crimes occurred nationwide, a decrease of 4.4 percent from the 2012 estimate.
When considering 5- and 10-year trends, the 2013 estimated violent crime total was 12.3 percent below the 2009 level and 14.5 percent below the 2004 level. (See Tables 1 and 1A.)
There were an estimated 367.9 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2013, a rate that declined 5.1 percent when compared with the 2012 estimated rate. (See Tables 1 and 1A.)
Aggravated assaults accounted for 62.3 percent of violent crimes reported to law enforcement in 2013. Robbery offenses accounted for 29.7 percent of violent crime offenses; rape (legacy definition) accounted for 6.9 percent; and murder accounted for 1.2 percent. (Based on Table 1.)
Information collected regarding types of weapons used in violent crime showed that firearms were used in 69.0 percent of the nation’s murders, 40.0 percent of robberies, and 21.6 percent of aggravated assaults. (Weapons data are not collected for rape.) (See Expanded Homicide Data Table 7, Robbery Table 3, and the Aggravated Assault Table.)
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fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/violent-crime-topic-page/violentcrimemain_final
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ucfengr said:
Did you care about Cecil before he became the cause of the latest Twitter outrage? Did you even know about him? What do you think gazelles and other critters think of Cecil? Do you think they’ll mourn him?
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People in the rest of the civilised world have been concerned for the lion populations of Africa for a while now. Australia banned the import of lion trophy products back in March and the EU is in the process of implementing the same ban. It’s been revealed that 'last year that, tragically, there are only about 400 lions left in the wild in west Africa’ and the majority of civilised people of the world are not so self invested as to say that doesn’t concern us. We only care about ourselves and feeding our own lust for trophy hunting.

theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/eu-set-ban-lion-hunting-trophy-imports
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
As has been discussed previously in this thread, there is much more to it than this.

It is inherent to man’s stewardship of animals that they be slaughtered. That applies not only to tasty domesticated animals like cows, pigs, and sheep, but also to destructive and dangerous animals like wild pigs, coyotes, and lions. Left unchecked, lions would proliferate and overun their territories (killing each other and dying of starvation or, worse, killing and eating humans as tigers frequently do in India).

Now, given that what makes more sense? To pay park rangers to kill animals or to charge money for “arrogantly smug” dentists to kill them? Sensible people have elected for the later.

So indulge your outrage, if that tickles your fancy, but understand that you are not seeing the whole picture clearly.
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That is such a twisted justification that makes me lol very hard. It is on you to prove that lions are in need of culling in Africa if you want to keep justifying trophy hunting with the culling excuse.
 
LongingSoul said:
That is such a twisted justification that makes me lol very hard. It is on you to prove that lions are in need of culling in Africa if you want to keep justifying trophy hunting with the culling excuse.
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Why don’t we let the local governments, in conjunction with the park staff make the determination on how many, if any, animals need to be culled.

Certainly you do not claim to have better insights into wildlife management that they do?
 
LongingSoul said:
People in the rest of the civilised world have been concerned for the lion populations of Africa for a while now. Australia banned the import of lion trophy products back in March and the EU is in the process of implementing the same ban. It’s been revealed that 'last year that, tragically, there are only about 400 lions left in the wild in west Africa’ and the majority of civilised people of the world are not so self invested as to say that doesn’t concern us. We only care about ourselves and feeding our own lust for trophy hunting.

theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/eu-set-ban-lion-hunting-trophy-imports
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Most of the lions in Africa are in east Africa. In all of Africa, there may be as few as 21,000 total. It is my understanding that the very large attrition of lions since the 1940s has been due mostly to destruction of lion habitat and prey. Basically, increased human populations and farming have led to the decline.

It may simply be that lions will be a creature of preserves and zoos only in the future. Grizzly bears and mountain lions once roamed nearly everywhere in the U.S. But the former now exist mainly in national parks. Mountain lions are making a comeback outside those areas because they’re protected and because people rarely run across them.

But the fact is that human habitation and large predators are uneasy combinations at best.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Not when they invoke the authority of the Church in their petty crusade.
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The Church has spoken increasingly urgently about the ecology as science has shown the intricate connection between the world and the welfare of human kind and developed an understanding of the place of creatures in the economy of salvation.

In the latest encyclical Laudato Si, Pope Francis says…

“Because all creatures are connected, each must be cherished with love and respect, for all of us as living creatures are dependent on one another. Each area is responsible for the care of this family. This will require undertaking a careful inventory of the species which it hosts, with a view to developing programmes and strategies of protection with particular care for safeguarding species heading towards extinction.”

It behoves the Christian to feel empathy with our animal friends even those marked for human consumption. That is why abattoirs continue to develop methods of herding and slaughter that reduce fear and suffering to the animals. These trophy hunters aren’t concerned with minimal suffering. They are concerned with preserving trophy product. They use bow and arrow to ensure the quality of their product rather than a gun which would be a far more expedient way to ‘cull’ a beast with minimal suffering. Their words are laughable and pathetic. They are not there with any noble purpose whatsoever.
 
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