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on_the_hill
Guest
But see, that’s not a crush, that’s an affair.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
One big difference is that you can admire Swift’s body of work without sinning vs. the porn star’s…uh, body of work.
I find your examples of “attention” and “fantasizing” just plain odd. It’s obvious you can’t imagine what an innocent crush looks like since you put forth examples that are exaggerated and weird. You want to demonstrate that crushes are based on lustful feelings and therefore sinful but continue to misconstrue what a crush is. Part of the problem is how a crush is being defined but a bigger problem is that you continue to ignore or twist examples of innocent crushes and shove your the examples of lust, infidelity and possibly obsession as examples of crushes.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
I never said that the email was sent or reciprocated, just that it was crafted. Earlier I did offer emotional affairs as an example of inappropriate attention given to someone other than one’s spouse that are not only sinful and serious near occasions of sin, but that also have the potential of developing into something even worse. Cat dismissed the notion of emotional affairs. I thought it pertinent to illustrate one more concretely.
Bruised Reed:
As I pointed out before, with the porn star in my example there’s no reason one would have to be familiar with her pornographic works in order to be familiar with her. She was splashed all over the news for a short time and in that time gave plenty of interviews so one could easily watch videos and look at pictures of her every day without having to look at anything pornographic.
As for some of the examples I’ve given, I’m not the one who first mentioned plastering my fridge with photos of a celebrity, devoting a portion of every day to them or fantasizing about horseback rides on the beach so I’m not sure how I’m the one turning a crush into something weird. I did give some extreme, real-life examples, although for most of them I know they started as innocent crushes with someone simply seeing a celebrity and thinking they were cute/attractive, then had the crush grow from there. Several of these people self-identify as God-fearing, devout Christians and would find it abhorrent that I or anyone else would see them sleeping with a life-size facsimile of their crush (or any of the other bizarre things some of them have done) as inappropriate or sinful. The biggest problem with near occasions of sin is that they often turn into concrete sins. I think denying that is no different than the guy with the folder full of unsent romantic emails to his coworker denying that it could turn into something more serious.
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Cat
Guest
Cat dismissed the notion of emotional affairs?!
How DARE you misquote me and give the impression that I dismiss SIN!
Please re-read Post #89. I did NOT dismiss the notion of emotional affairs. I dealt with them rather severely. I have been happily married to a darling man for 35 years, and we have always been careful to GUARD OUR HEARTS and keep them for each other. We manage to do this and still have fun with our celeb crushes.
Due to a trying day, I am not in a friendly mood tonight. I am feeling very much like my namesake, a cat with fur standing on end and claws out. I love discussion and debate, but NOT when the opponent does not LISTEN to the Other Side.
I watched an episode of the old television comedy, F Troop, last night. This show is entirely family-friendly and decent and wholesome and funny–my brother and I memorized entire episodes when we were little kids. Remember, this show is set in the late 1800s, a long time ago.
In the episode that I watched, Agorn and O’Rourke were in their bunks, and guess what was hanging up on the wall (log wall) next to their bunks?
Pictures of beautiful women. Women in outfits that would be acceptable in a Mass nowadays, but probably were considered “risqué” back then.
So even way back then, men had “crushes” on women. Military men have always adorned their footlockers with pictures of movie stars and singers. Remember Betty Grable?
I recognize that for some men, a crush is something that they cannot allow without sinning. But for the majority of men, and women, too, a celebrity crush is innocent fun that does not detract in any way from the real love that we have for our spouses.
Nope. This is a distortion of what we are talking about when we say “celebrity crush.”
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
I haven’t had a celebrity crush since I was a teenager; I pretty much became disillusioned around the time I found out one of my crushes, a pro athlete, admitted to using steroids, and later was arrested for beating his wife. That made me realize I really didn’t know if ANY of these people really deserved my affection, and it made me think the whole thing was pointless.
That being said, my mother, technically a senior citizen, does have a very cute celebrity crush on a singer who was popular when she was in her teens/early twenties. My father doesn’t mind at all, in fact, if he sees the man make an occasional appearance on TV he’ll actually call for my mother to come watch, or videotape the segment if she’s out of the house.
But I can assure you, none of my celebrity crushes were sexual at all, and I doubt my mother’s is.
All that being said, it seems perhaps the tension going on here, is how some people think “there’s no way I/my spouse/my friends could entertain a celebrity crush without sinning, so since I can’t do it, no one else can”, and on the other hand others stating “I am able to crush on a celebrity without sinning, therefore ALL people who do so are innocent of sin”.
IMHO, both approaches strike me as presumptuous. People have different strengths and weaknesses, and certainly some people tend to be tempted to “escape” into “fantasy” more than others, certainly some experience higher temptation to sexual sin, and while my crushes were certainly innocent, I have encountered both “fangirls” and “fanboys” who say very sexually aggressive things about their favored celebrities.
And there do indeed exist “groupies” who have sex with celebrities, and wanna-be groupies who want to. Now some of them may be in it for the money, but I’m sure some started off just having innocent crushes.
That being said, my mother, technically a senior citizen, does have a very cute celebrity crush on a singer who was popular when she was in her teens/early twenties. My father doesn’t mind at all, in fact, if he sees the man make an occasional appearance on TV he’ll actually call for my mother to come watch, or videotape the segment if she’s out of the house.
But I can assure you, none of my celebrity crushes were sexual at all, and I doubt my mother’s is.
All that being said, it seems perhaps the tension going on here, is how some people think “there’s no way I/my spouse/my friends could entertain a celebrity crush without sinning, so since I can’t do it, no one else can”, and on the other hand others stating “I am able to crush on a celebrity without sinning, therefore ALL people who do so are innocent of sin”.
IMHO, both approaches strike me as presumptuous. People have different strengths and weaknesses, and certainly some people tend to be tempted to “escape” into “fantasy” more than others, certainly some experience higher temptation to sexual sin, and while my crushes were certainly innocent, I have encountered both “fangirls” and “fanboys” who say very sexually aggressive things about their favored celebrities.
And there do indeed exist “groupies” who have sex with celebrities, and wanna-be groupies who want to. Now some of them may be in it for the money, but I’m sure some started off just having innocent crushes.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
If I misunderstood you saying that emotional affairs aren’t a form of adultery, then I apologize. However, if I read it right, then I have to say that I don’t agree that a married person engaging in a deeply personal, deeply emotional relationship and exchanging sexually explicit photos of themselves (which is what sexting is) with someone who isn’t their spouse isn’t adultery. Jesus quite clearly would not agree with that notion, either, unless you’re implying that someone looking at sexually explicit photos of their partner in an emotional affair wouldn’t be looking at them lustfully. I also don’t agree with the notion that just because Larry Storch did it, that makes it okay.
How is it a distortion? Unless I’m mistaken, I thought you were the one who said she posted pictures of her crush on the fridge, spent some time every day looking him up online and fantasized about horseback riding and walks on the beach. You said that’s okay. You also said that if someone acted the same way about a porn star, a coworker, their sister-in-law or their babysitter it would be wrong. I don’t agree that the object of a crush’s profession or relative closeness to the person with the crush makes that person’s crush fundamentally different from one you’d approve of.
To put it another way, I know a guy who nearly beat the life out of his sister’s husband when he found out he was physically abusing her. Later, he was astonished that people felt the same way about him as he did about his ex-brother-in-law when they found out he was beating his own wife. As he explained it, what his ex-brother-in-law did was clearly wrong. What he did was fine because he was the one doing it and he had awfully good reasons.
I’m not worried about whether my wife and I could have a celebrity crush without sinning. Neither of us do that because we don’t see the point of gushing over someone other than our spouse. I’m sure some see this in the manners you stated. My take is that it’s pretty objectively, if not always sinful behavior, then certainly inappropriate. The people I know who entertain celebrity crushes run the gamut from far less than the crushes illustrated by the pro-crush folks here, to the extreme examples I’ve listed and far worse (stuff that would make your skin crawl but seems more indicative of deeper psychological issues that don’t seem pertinent to this discussion). I just feel that for an adult capable of adult reasoning and sensibilities, especially if one is married, a crush–celebrity or not–is at least a near occasion of sin and inappropriate behavior.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Well, certainly I think there should be different standards for married people, for example it wouldn’t be a sin for me, as a single person, to go on a date with a single man and kiss him at the end, but it certainly would be if I had a husband at home.
But you seem to be suggesting that ALL crushes are a “near occasion of sin”, for ALL adults, ALL married people. Even for my senior citizen mother, whose husband knows of her celebrity crush, finds it cute, and doesn’t feel threatened by it at all? Do you think my father is enabling her to sin by taping shows that feature her crush?
Sorry, that just seems presumptuous to me.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
I think there’s a difference between being a fan of someone and having a crush on them. My wife is a fan of Wilford Brimley. He reminds her of a favorite uncle. If there’s a movie on with him, she’ll watch it. If a commercial with him comes on she’ll come in from the other room to see it. She doesn’t have a picture of him on the nightstand and doesn’t spend her day looking at Brimley websites or fantasizing about eating oatmeal with him. At the same time, there are several celebrities I consider myself a fan of. Just like her, if one of their movies, shows or songs come on, I’ll watch/listen. If they come out with a new book/album, I’ll go out and buy it, sometimes even the bad ones. I may or may not like their pages on Facebook, and on rare occasions I might even respond to something they post. But if I’m not watching/reading/listening to them, I generally don’t think about them and I never fantasize about them. There’s really a big difference there. I think when you cross that line from, “Hey, let’s go to the Anne Murray concert!”, to hanging her posters on the wall and having starry-eyed fantasies about holding her hand and watching the sun set with her, you’re entering problematic territory, whether your spouse approves of it or not.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Not that I can read her mind, but as far as I recall, Cat mentioned spending only 3-5 minutes a day on her celebrity crush(es), and the picture you paint of a typical celebrity crush seems much more overwrought than the actual description from her posts.I didn’t get any sense from Cat’s posts that she indulges in “starry-eyed fantasies”. Unless you think even spending one second on such a fantasy, even a totally nonsexual one, is sinful.
At least, will you concede that is IS possible to have a crush without this involving lust? Since your earlier posts seemed to think this was impossible, and seemed to think all such crushes involve lust of the kind your friends who keep “lists” seem to indulge in.
But I take Cat’s word that she does NOT lust after her celebrity crush, since from my own experience it is true. I have also, unfortunately, been in the situation of lusting after inappropriate men, as in actually indulging in sexual fantasies about them to the point of arousal, and it was totally different. I wound up feeling guilty and ashamed. I never felt that way about a celebrity crush, even when the crush object disappointed me.
At least, will you concede that is IS possible to have a crush without this involving lust? Since your earlier posts seemed to think this was impossible, and seemed to think all such crushes involve lust of the kind your friends who keep “lists” seem to indulge in.
But I take Cat’s word that she does NOT lust after her celebrity crush, since from my own experience it is true. I have also, unfortunately, been in the situation of lusting after inappropriate men, as in actually indulging in sexual fantasies about them to the point of arousal, and it was totally different. I wound up feeling guilty and ashamed. I never felt that way about a celebrity crush, even when the crush object disappointed me.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
I’ve read plenty of threads on here about, or that mention, emotional affairs and in a lot of those cases the person in question is involved in what most people would view as a normal, innocent, platonic friendship, devoting far less time to the person they’re being accused of having an emotional affair with than others in this thread have admitted to devoting to their celebrity crushes. I don’t think it’s an unfair analogy to compare the two. And while I don’t believe that every platonic relationship with a member of the opposite sex should be viewed as a potential affair, I do believe that when you start fantasizing about someone, you’re in dangerous territory. For the record, the characterization of a “healthy” celebrity crush being one where you pin pictures all over your fridge and fantasize about walks on the beach didn’t come from me.
I’ll concede that you can be a fan of or admire someone–even someone you consider attractive–without lust being involved. Some of my favorite performers are ones I’d say, from an objective point of view, are attractive. But I don’t linger on that or fantasize about them. I do think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that indulging in fantasies about someone you find attractive isn’t akin to lust. If it wasn’t, then there would be no problem with me innocently crushing on (as defined here, fantasies, fridge photos and all) a porn star, a Sports Illustrated or Victoria’s Secret Model, Beyonce or that hot young intern at the office.
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Cat
Guest
If you read my posts, ToeInTheWater, you will see that I have consistently used words like “most” and “some”. I have never said, “ALL crushes are innocent.”
In the post in which I took Gordon Sims to task, I said, “I realize that for some men, a crush is something that they cannot allow without sinning.”
Over and over in every post, I have recognize that celebrity crushes can be an occasion of sin for some people.
Please don’t include Cat in the list of “presumptuous” people. As I said to Gordon Sims, if you are going to enter the discussion, please listen to the Other Side.
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Cat
Guest
Oh, for heaven’s sake. Most (not all) women enjoy romance, and many women (not all) enjoy indulging in brief fantasies about having tea in a quaint little tearoom, shopping for antiques, riding a horse along the beach, throwing pennies into Buckingham Fountain, picnicking in Central Park–with a handsome man who may or may not be their husband. usually these fantasies last about five seconds while the woman is sitting in the car in a traffic jam with two screaming toddlers in the back seat.
That’s what you’re missing here, even though I have told you that the time I spend on my celebrity crush is extremely short. My 3-5 minutes is not time spent in a fantasy–it’s the time I spend checking the latest news about him on Twitter.
I WANT Robert Patrick to succeed in his career and in his marriage and in his Christian walk! I want him to stay sober (which he has for over 15 years, and I know that because I read it on his Twitterfeed). I want him to win the People’s Choice Award for Scorpion, which I know about because I read about it on his Twitterfeed!"
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong or sinful or lustful about admiring a celebrity and wanting him or her to do well and following his or her career in magazines (the old movie magazines of my mother’s era) and online. Nothing wrong.
There is NOTHING wrong with hanging pictures up of our celebrity “crush” to remind us that somewhere in this world, there is a person working hard who brings joy to our daily lives. I have mentioned in many other threads over the years that I have prayed for all my favorite actors and actresses over the years, and that prayer WORKS!
Praying for a celebrity crush is a good way to prevent lusting after them.
And there is NOTHING wrong or sinful about a woman or man indulging in a few seconds of wistful fantasy about a life that will never, ever happen because we are married to a real-life spouse that we love above all others.
Being a grown-up doesn’t mean that I give up “pretending” and “playing.” Most of us need fantasy and make-believe, stories and fables, songs and dances, to help us to get through life. Very few people live life totally in the “real world,” with nary a fantasy about lives that they will never, ever experience. I would say that the authors and playwrights among us take those “fantasies” and turn them into novels, plays, screenplays, and songs. I’ve done that to a certain extend with my skating novels (3 are published)–the “hero” in my novels is a compilation of many “celeb crushes”, as well as my husband. And lots of women write me to tell me they have crush on the hero in my novels, and I don’t think they’re doing anything sinful!
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
I don’t disagree with this for the most part. I do disagree with the fantasy aspect. Let me put it another way. Popular wisdom, in the US at least, is that there’s nothing wrong with watching porn. It’s a fun, healthy, educational pastime. Most people can watch it without ever experiencing (or at least acknowledging) any negative side effects. The people who do claim harmful side effects or addictions are insane, have other underlying problems, or are whack-job Christian fundamentalists who are making the whole issue up. Enjoying porn is just a way for a person to indulge in an innocent fantasy, and is a great way to keep a spouse from lusting after some real-world person other than their spouse.
Now, I know some will counter saying porn is clearly lust and fundamentally different, but I don’t agree. Both involve a person fantasizing about someone who isn’t their spouse, and both are prone to escalating into more harmful behaviors. As much as you say that it would never escalate into something more for you, I guarantee that if you talk to anyone on here who has struggled with porn, infidelity or some other sexual sin, they’d say the exact same thing. And yet again, I want to point out how bizarre I think it is that on a Catholic forum, my stance that reserving my eyes, thoughts and fantasies exclusively for my wife is being portrayed as the wrong position.
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Cat
Guest
It’s not “the wrong position.” It’s the right position for you and probably for other couples, too. No one is denigrating you for your choice.
But other couples are able to enjoy the fun of celebrity crushes without any detrimental effect on their marriage or harm to their Christian faith.
Indeed, some couples incorporate celeb crushes into their daily lives and come up with ways to have fun with the crushes. e.g., I often bring home mermaid trinkets, including Ariel toys and pictures, for my husband, and he loves it. Also, our bathroom has several mermaids in the décor. My husband has TiVo set up to catch Robert Patrick in anything that he’s in, and if he sees something on Ebay (e.g., Terminator 2 action figures), he’ll try to buy it for me if it doesn’t cost too much.
This is fun for both of us, and absolutely no harm is done, no lustful thoughts enter in, and we don’t lost time together by checking out our “crushes” online when we are just sitting around relaxing. (We have computers in the same room.)
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Cat, I’ve read over your posts and I realize I did misunderstand you and I apologize. You have indeed consistently used words like “most” and “some” to describe people who have crushes, and acknowledged that they can be a near occasion of sin for some people.
Unfortunately Gordon Sims, I can’t say the same for you. Apparently you think crushes/fantasies are either wrong for everyone, or right for everyone, and there’s no room for accounting for differences in people and relationships
You also seem to be assuming that crushes, by definition, involve lust, and that if someone doesn’t feel any lust, then that’s not a real crush, that’s just “admiration”. Well, then what do you think of the term “man-crush” that is used to describe men who have “crushes” on male celebrities, usually athletes? I have known men like this who do indeed plaster their walls with posters of the celebrity, fantasize about meeting and playing with the celebrity in their sport, etc. Are such men all in the near occasion of sin, are they indulging in lustful homosexual fantasies? Of course not, unless they have tendencies to SSA. But most don’t.
You also seem to think “fantasizing about a person you find attractive” equals lust, even when the fantasies are not sexual, and there is no arousal involved. BTW, you do realize who Ariel is, right? She is a CARTOON character. Do you seriously think Cat’s husband is lusting over a cartoon? You’ve also made this a man vs woman issue, raising the strawman that people think it’s okay for women to fantasize but not for men, when Cat has stated that her husband has crushes and is not denigrating him for it at all.
I totally agree with this.
Unfortunately Gordon Sims, I can’t say the same for you. Apparently you think crushes/fantasies are either wrong for everyone, or right for everyone, and there’s no room for accounting for differences in people and relationships
You also seem to be assuming that crushes, by definition, involve lust, and that if someone doesn’t feel any lust, then that’s not a real crush, that’s just “admiration”. Well, then what do you think of the term “man-crush” that is used to describe men who have “crushes” on male celebrities, usually athletes? I have known men like this who do indeed plaster their walls with posters of the celebrity, fantasize about meeting and playing with the celebrity in their sport, etc. Are such men all in the near occasion of sin, are they indulging in lustful homosexual fantasies? Of course not, unless they have tendencies to SSA. But most don’t.
You also seem to think “fantasizing about a person you find attractive” equals lust, even when the fantasies are not sexual, and there is no arousal involved. BTW, you do realize who Ariel is, right? She is a CARTOON character. Do you seriously think Cat’s husband is lusting over a cartoon? You’ve also made this a man vs woman issue, raising the strawman that people think it’s okay for women to fantasize but not for men, when Cat has stated that her husband has crushes and is not denigrating him for it at all.
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Cat
Guest
My DAD (R.I.P.) had a crush on Martha Stewart for YEARS, both while my mother was still alive and after she died. MARTHA STEWART! Definitely not a sex symbol.
And when Martha Stewart went to prison, my dad abandoned his crush (yes, he had principles! He wasn’t interested in a convicted criminal!), and developed a new crush on Dr. Nancy Sniderman, the doctor on NBC! Again, definitely not a sex symbol!
Dad was in his 70s and 80s when he had these crushes!
Don’t anyone accuse Dad of having lustful thoughts!!! :nope:
C
Cat
Guest
Interesting point about man-crushes on other men. I hadn’t thought about that.
Just today in our local paper, a local volunteer/community activist, an older man who also happens to be a great Christian guy, was interviewed, and he mentioned how much he admires Chuck Norris and wants to meet him.
My husband started figure skating (and got our daughters involved) because of his huge “crush” on Brian Boitano. Right after the 1988 Calgary Olympics and the “Battle of the Brians,” my husband decided to become the First Forty-Year-Old Olympian in figure skating," and started Learn To Skate classes.
Well, he’s in his 50s now, and still working on that Olympic Dream! And he STILL has that crush on Brian Boitano, and will drive long distances to see him in person, and also follows Boitano on the social media, collects Boitano souvenirs, etc.
There is definitely no lust involved. Boitano came out as gay right before the 2014 Olympics (wow, big surprise!).
I think a lot of celebrity crushes are more about fantasizing about a lifestyle, not a person. I’m not so much interested in Robert Patrick as I am in what he achieves–I love his life story! He was a painter in the Detroit area who had done some plays in schools–that’s it. After a boating accident in which he and his brothers were almost killed, Mr. Patrick quit the painting job, drove out to Hollywood, got an agent, and started auditioning. Within two weeks, he landed a part in a play by a famous playwright. This part led to parts in Roger Corman “action flicks,” and eventually the ground-breaking role in Terminator 2.
After he finished the film and it was a massive hit, he went to his local Harley Davidson store to fulfill a life-long dream–buying a motorcycle. The owner of the store offered to GIVE him a Harley (after all, he was the Terminator–what a promotion!). But Mr. Patrick refused and insisted on paying for the bike because he wanted to fulfill that goal of buying one!
This kind of attitude seems to characterize all of Mr. Patrick’s life–a love of country, family, and a willingness to work HARD in his chosen field. He goes after his dreams–that’s what I want to do!
THAT’S what I crush on–not so much the man, but his lifestyle.
And I think the same is true of my husband’s crush on the Little Mermaid. I mentioned in an earlier post that he loves the idea of living under the sea, swimming along, free, unfettered, in a beautiful world of ocean life.
My father’s crushes on Martha Stewart and Dr. Sniderman were all about success–he loved the idea of becoming successful and wealthy and famous–and to a certain extent, he succeeded at this in a much smaller way in his own part of the world.
Men who crush on athletes love the idea of being in peak physical condition, able to pull of astonishing athletic feats and “win it all” for their team or for themselves (e.g., Boitano).
When I was younger and crushing on Jonathan Frid/Barnabas Collins, I was actually crushing on living in New York City, being part of something exciting like Dark Shadows (it was hugely popular–20 million people were watching it–that’s respectable even today!). I admired the Shakespearean language the Mr. Frid used, the costuming (Edwardian–laced on the sleeves of the male shirts–I still love this!), the music (beautiful classical-sounding themes written by Robert Colbert), the HOUSES–I think this is where I started developing a love of beautifully-designed houses, etc.
I think a lot of military men who hang pin-ups in their locker are actually crushing on America and freedom and beauty and their mothers and sisters and girlfriends back home, but it hurts too much to think about these REAL people and REAL America that they love, so they think about their pin-up girl instead, because she’s not REAL to them–she merely epitomizes the American Ideal that they are fighting for.
I think that lust and betrayal of a spouse does not factor into most crushes at all. Far from it. Crushes are innocent and decent and enhance our real-life relationships and make our lives here on this earth more fun.
J
John_Lazarus
Guest
I have a cousin who looks like a cross between Audrey Hepburn and a young Sophia Loren.Srsly? She’s not even that good looking.
I have to admit to two crushes. JLaw I mentioned earlier.
My other crush is Audrey Hepburn.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
I find man-crushes problematic, mostly because they seem like more of an obsession than regular fan crushes. I don’t think they would lead to any sort of sexual infidelity, but I think they are just as apt to cause problems in a relationship. True, there are plenty that don’t rise to the extreme, but I think once you get to the point where you’re buying those life sized decals of Michael Jordan or whoever to plaster on the walls of your man cave, you’re getting close to problem territory.
Like I keep saying, and I’m not sure why this sounds like Greek, but I find the idea of someone (man or woman) fantasizing about anyone other than your spouse to be inappropriate. You can paint it with whatever brush you want, but that doesn’t erase the fact that someone is fantasizing about someone other than their spouse. My personal take on that is that if you feel the need to fantasize about someone other than your spouse, you might want to spend a little time exploring the reasons why.
As for whether people are capable of lusting over cartoon characters, you’re either new to the internet or were born with Google safe search turned on. I’ll just leave it at that since that’s not a topic I want to dwell on at all.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Okay, so you’re stating that ANY fantasy, even if not frankly sexual, a married person has about “anyone other than your spouse” is “inappropriate”, for ALL married people. Well at least you do point out that this is your own personal take on the issue.
You know, I find myself agreeing with Cat on another topic; that your sarcastic, condescending tone is NOT helpful at all here. Yes I do know there are such things as erotic cartoons and strange fans who find cartoons such as My Little Pony sexy, etc. However, I do not think this is anywhere mainstream, and I didn’t get any sense from Cat’s description of her husband that he is that type of person.
Anyway, what was your purpose in starting this topic, anyway? Were you really looking for a discussion, or were you looking for a lot of support and even more evidence of your moral superiority to most of your friends. (Since this seems to be a constant theme of your posts, how immoral your friends and family are, and how put-upon you are by having to deal with their sinfulness. Why do you even hang around these people if they offend you so much? You must be getting something out if it.)
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