Centering Prayer at my parish

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mhansen:
Another example of condemning anything we don’t know about. I would bet that St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila both sound “Eastern” to you. They are both very much a part of the Catholic Church and its Tradition. They both happen to be not only saints, but also Doctors of the Church. Might I suggest you actually READ and DIGEST them instead “leafing through the pages?”

If you agree with me that both of the abovementioned Saints/Doctors are “part of the Catholic Church and its Tradition”, would you care to enlighten me as to exactly how Centering Prayer, leading to true contemplation, differs from what they offer?
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Why are you comparing centering prayer with St Theresa or St John of the Cross, like they are the same?
 
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mhansen:
By the same token, why give the uninitiated free reign to dismiss, and even condemn, a legitimate means of union with God?
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Because it’s not inline with the Catholic faith.
Who are you to tell God in what ways He can work?
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Someone who know the Catholic faith.
I don’t pretend to know anything about nuclear physics. Therefore, I would be prudent to excuse myself from any discussion that debates the pros and cons of such a subject. I think the same applies here.
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If you know so much, please refute that article from THIS ROCK magazine point by point. We’ll wait.
 
Dear Jen,

Bob listed books which critique the CCR, and to the best of my knowledge were written by Catholic apologists. Just as there is no official endorsement for the CCR, there is no official condemnation of it either. Centering prayer is used mostly by charismatics and those who were duped into its practice.

Centering prayer is a short cut to contemplation. Our saints arrived at contemplative prayer after years of rigorous practice of virtue, prayer and self sacrifice. One does not need any of those to advance in centering prayer.
 
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mhansen:
I have carefully read your post, and nowhere in it do you share your supposed “experiences” with Centering Prayer. The term Centering Prayer is just that, a term. If you knew anything about it, as you suggest you do, you would realize that it is a form of contemplative prayer, which, according to at least two Doctors of the Church, and the Church itself, is a legitimate means of union with God. You wanted my “special with-held information”, and there it is, except that what I give you is public information. The important point is that it is a form of contemplative prayer, and that IS backed by the Church.
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Fallacy.

Contemplative prayer in accordance with the Catholic faith IS backed by the Church.

Centering prayer is not a contemplative prayer backed by the Catholic Church.

You must stop equating.
 
Exporter said:
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It is obvious that you have a chip on your shoulder mhansen. KMKTexas wrote a valuable post to you. Please reread it.

It was you who brought up nuclear physics, not I. I was responding with truth. Actually, my work was in nuclear chemistry. It was not boastful at all. Remember it was you who first brought that up. Please don’t be so sensitive.

I did not venture to post my “experiences” because to me, they are embarrasing & frightening. I am sorry I let myself be exposed to it. If you just have to learn about it send me an e-mail and I will answer. ( I said an e-mail.)
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Ok, I reread it. The only other thing I would add, since I reread it, is that I disagree that only some are ready for contemplation. I think everyone is called to contemplation, it’s just that some choose not to go that route. That’s fine. For those that do, lectio divina may be how they go about it. It may be Centering Prayer. It may be contemplative prayer in the realm of St. John and St. Teresa. It could be in other ways. I didn’t reply to that part in my previous post, because, as I said, I think everyone can take part. Some just choose not to.

I did email you just now for your experiences. If you feel like sharing them, great. If not, great. I don’t have a chip on my shoulder. I think I’m free to respond to others’ posts, am I not? I chose to exercise that right, that’s all. It seems that everyone that disagrees with the “majority” on this board has a “chip on their shoulder.” I’m sorry, but I won’t be bullied because more people disagree with me than agree. That’s their prerogative. If we can’t share our opinions without being called “sensitive” or accused of having a “chip on our shoulders”, then what is this board here for? Just so everyone can agree on everything and go about their way?
 
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mhansen:
It may be contemplative prayer in the realm of St. John and St. Teresa. I
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It’s yet to be proven that Centering Prayer is the same as St Theressa of Avilla’s and St John of the Cross’ spirituality.
 
From CatholicCulture.org,The Danger of Centering Prayer. Showing the errors of Thomas Keating, the founder of Centering Prayer. (Registration required, but do it anyway, many great articles)

Some highlight:

Centering prayer is essentially a form of self-hypnosis. It makes use of a “mantra,” a word repeated over and over to focus the mind while striving by one’s will to go deep within oneself. The effects are a hypnotic-like state: concentration upon one thing, disengagement from other stimuli, a high degree of openness to suggestion, a psychological and physiological condition that externally resembles sleep but in which consciousness is interiorized and the mind subject to suggestion. After reading a published description of centering prayer, a psychology professor said, “Your question is, is this hypnosis? Sure it is.” He said the state can be verified physiologically by the drop in blood pressure, respiratory rate, lactic acid level in the blood, and the galvanic conductivity of the skin. Abbot Keating relates that, when they began doing the centering prayer workshops in the guest house, some of the monks and guests “complained that it was spooky seeing people walking around the guest house like 'zombies.”’ They recognized the symptoms but could not diagnose the illness.
Please respond mhansen.
 
mhansen said:
Another example of condemning anything we don’t know about. I would bet that St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila both sound “Eastern” to you. They are both very much a part of the Catholic Church and its Tradition. They both happen to be not only saints, but also Doctors of the Church. Might I suggest you actually READ and DIGEST them instead “leafing through the pages?”
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Dear mhansen,

🙂 and more 🙂
Actually I read St Teresa and St John of the Cross. And no, they are not “eastern”. And yes as you said they are part of Catholic Tradition. But I wonder… did YOU read them? And if you did, how on this earth can you possibly suggest that their path was anything remotely the same as the path with centering prayer? :nope:
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Many people assume centering prayer is compatible with Catholic tradition, but in fact the techniques of centering prayer are neither Christian nor prayer. They are at the level of human faculties and as such are an operation of man, not of God. The deception and dangers can be grave.

Centering prayer differs from Christian prayer in that the intent of the technique is to bring the practitioner to the center of his *own being. *There he is, supposedly, to experience the presence of the God who indwells him. Christian prayer, on the contrary, centers upon God in a *relational *way, as someone apart from oneself. The Christian knows a God who is personal, yet who, as Creator, infinitely transcends his creature. God is wholly other than man. It is also crucial to Christian prayer that God engages man’s whole being in response, not just his interior life. In the view of centering prayer, the immanence of God somehow makes the transcendence of God available to human techniques and experience.

Centering prayer is essentially a form of self-hypnosis. It makes use of a “mantra,” a word repeated over and over to focus the mind while striving by one’s will to go deep within oneself. The effects are a hypnotic-like state: concentration upon one thing, disengagement from other stimuli, a high degree of openness to suggestion, a psychological and physiological condition that externally resembles sleep but in which consciousness is interiorized and the mind subject to suggestion. After reading a published description of centering prayer, a psychology professor said, “Your question is, is this hypnosis? Sure it is.” He said the state can be verified physiologically by the drop in blood pressure, respiratory rate, lactic acid level in the blood, and the galvanic conductivity of the skin. Abbot Keating relates that, when they began doing the centering prayer workshops in the guest house, some of the monks and guests “complained that it was spooky seeing people walking around the guest house like 'zombies.”’ They recognized the symptoms but could not diagnose the illness. In order to see clearly that centering prayer departs from Catholic tradition, let us review the differences between Christian spirituality and that of Eastern religions. These differences flow, above all, from their concepts of God, of man, and of their relationship. In light of this contrast, we should be able to see more clearly from which of these centering prayer draws its approach and techniques.
Is This convencing enough for you?
 
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beng:
Fallacy.

Contemplative prayer in accordance with the Catholic faith IS backed by the Church.

Centering prayer is not a contemplative prayer backed by the Catholic Church.

You must stop equating.
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Beng,

As you admit in previous posts, you don’t even read the books on Centering Prayer. How do you know what they’re about? Please give me your opinion only on things you have first-hand knowledge of, otherwise you speak with no authority whatsoever, and your opinions are rendered pretty much useless.

Centering Prayer does not happen, at least not with Catholics who sponsor the retreats, where it’s not allowed by the bishops, so in that sense, it does have the backing of the Church, at least the bishops of the respective diocese where retreats are held, etc.
 
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Exporter:
From CatholicCulture.org,The Danger of Centering Prayer. Showing the errors of Thomas Keating, the founder of Centering Prayer. (Registration required, but do it anyway, many great articles)

Some highlight:

Centering prayer is essentially a form of self-hypnosis. It makes use of a “mantra,” a word repeated over and over to focus the mind while striving by one’s will to go deep within oneself. The effects are a hypnotic-like state: concentration upon one thing, disengagement from other stimuli, a high degree of openness to suggestion, a psychological and physiological condition that externally resembles sleep but in which consciousness is interiorized and the mind subject to suggestion. After reading a published description of centering prayer, a psychology professor said, “Your question is, is this hypnosis? Sure it is.” He said the state can be verified physiologically by the drop in blood pressure, respiratory rate, lactic acid level in the blood, and the galvanic conductivity of the skin. Abbot Keating relates that, when they began doing the centering prayer workshops in the guest house, some of the monks and guests “complained that it was spooky seeing people walking around the guest house like 'zombies.”’ They recognized the symptoms but could not diagnose the illness.
Please respond mhansen.
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I already did. The entire article is debunked as far as I’m concerned, because they wrongly claim that Centering Prayer uses a mantra. If they can’t get that right, I won’t read on. I responded to that. Your turn.
 
mhansen said:
By the same token, why give the uninitiated free reign to dismiss, and even condemn, a legitimate means of union with God? Who are you to tell God in what ways He can work?

I don’t pretend to know anything about nuclear physics. Therefore, I would be prudent to excuse myself from any discussion that debates the pros and cons of such a subject. I think the same applies here.
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Uninitiated? Come now! Your argument has so many holes I won’t even try to dismantle it.
 
Here’s where the reference to St. Teresa came in, at least when I was watching:

kmktexas recommended a book called “Fire Within” by Dubay. dfrojc seconded the recommendation.

I went online at amazon.com and read a six page excerpt and found that the book sounded very interesting. Then I glanced at the index and noted the following entry for centering prayer:

Centering prayer, 51; as impediment to advancing, 92; as taught by St. Teresa, 92.

Since I do not have a copy of that book, I asked what we could learn on p. 92 that might reveal something useful here. If St. Teresa taught “centering prayer,” though, then some of you who are ostensibly pro-Teresa but are trying to dismiss “centering prayer” out of hand as dangerous and new-age might take heed until you can relate what is on p. 92 in that book, or otherwise debunk Dubay. Until you can do that, I take it that by dismissing “centering prayer” without anything but a handful of articles from detractors that you are dismissing the teachings of St. Teresa.

Alan
 
You know what mhansen?

I have done centering prayer; and no, it is not Catholic and no, I will not describe it and no, I will not be spilling my guts out to you. Read my first posts on this thread. I haven’t just leafed through a book on centering prayer. I have DONE it, and I tell you it is NOT the Holy Spirit you open up your heart to in centering prayer. You open up yourself to a DEMON! There are no shortcuts to holiness and to intimacy with God. One has to embark on a long and arduous journey of self denial. That was the way St Teresa and the other Catholic mystics arrived at contemplation. There is no other way to contemplation, not in this life. God bless.
 
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mhansen:
Beng,

As you admit in previous posts, you don’t even read the books on Centering Prayer. How do you know what they’re about? Please give me your opinion only on things you have first-hand knowledge of, otherwise you speak with no authority whatsoever, and your opinions are rendered pretty much useless.
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I read the articles which is done by a person who research centering prayer.

Having first hand knowledge is not a litmus test.
Centering Prayer does not happen, at least not with Catholics who sponsor the retreats, where it’s not allowed by the bishops, so in that sense, it does have the backing of the Church, at least the bishops of the respective diocese where retreats are held, etc.
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Oh please. Sorry, but this is just ridiculous.

I mean everytime the afficianados of questionable practicehave to defend their practice they ALWAYS said that since this and that allow or even endorse it than it must be orthodox.
 
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mhansen:
I already did. The entire article is debunked as far as I’m concerned, because they wrongly claim that Centering Prayer uses a mantra. If they can’t get that right, I won’t read on. I responded to that. Your turn.
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How ridiculous.

First of all, the “mantra” is probably the chanting of vain repetitions (mat 6:7). It doesn’t have to be some mantra like “Hummm Khrisna…Hom Mu Ni” or whatever.

But it’s very convenient to just dismiss the article without rebuted it substantially isn’t it?
 
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