challenge question, who can answer this

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Originally Posted by rinnie
The first time i walked in there i looked at the cross. My husband said whats wrong i said something missing i dont know what it is. This is a cute church. Then i looked at the cross. It was empty. Jesus was missing. I said thats it Jesus is missing on the cross. the cross is empty. See thats why im Catholic and will always be. I need Jesus on the Cross. Thats why I belong in the Catholic Church. And the Protestant doesnt need Jesus on the cross thats why he needs to be in the Protestant Church.
Rinnie although I personally have no problem with Jesus being on the cross just try to understand many Christians don’t like the crucifix (which is Jesus corpse on the cross) because it shows his dead body. They view the crucifix as displaying his death. Almost like he is still dead. We know this isn’t true of course. Just as you need Jesus on the cross some like the plain cross because not only is it a reminder of how he died but also that he is risen and is therefore no longer on the cross. The universal symbol for Christianity I believe is just the plain cross (I could be wrong here). Other symbols we see alot are the fish of course and the crucifix. BUT when you see someone wearing a cross, there’s no doubt they are Christian. When you see someone wearing a crucifix there’s no doubt they are a Christian. When you see someone wearing a fish there’s no doubt they are a Christian.

Bottom line. If you need Jesus on the cross because the meaning is richer for you then so be it. Let no one stand in your way.

PEACE and GOD Bless.
 
Protestants do not think that the Catholic Church mentioned in the Creed is limited to Christians who are in communion with Rome.

Edwin
Ok i can understand what you are saying. But do you call your church a Catholic church and do you feel you are following the Catholic Faith.

Now im just asking there may be a church out there called a Protestant Catholic Church. Im just asking. I dont know. And if all churchs are Catholic why dont they all say they are. See this is just where i cant get it. IT just dont sink in to me. But please no disrespect to anyones church or religion i swear this is not what this post was about. But thank you for your answer it just dont seem right to me. But it may be the correct answer but its not connecting with me.
 
Rinnie although I personally have no problem with Jesus being on the cross just try to understand many Christians don’t like the crucifix (which is Jesus corpse on the cross) because it shows his dead body. They view the crucifix as displaying his death. Almost like he is still dead. We know this isn’t true of course. Just as you need Jesus on the cross some like the plain cross because not only is it a reminder of how he died but also that he is risen and is therefore no longer on the cross. The universal symbol for Christianity I believe is just the plain cross (I could be wrong here). Other symbols we see alot are the fish of course and the crucifix. BUT when you see someone wearing a cross, there’s no doubt they are Christian. When you see someone wearing a crucifix there’s no doubt they are a Christian. When you see someone wearing a fish there’s no doubt they are a Christian.

Bottom line. If you need Jesus on the cross because the meaning is richer for you then so be it. Let no one stand in your way.

PEACE and GOD Bless.
You my friend i agree once again 100% on this, And when i said that is why they belong in the Protestant Church i didnt mean to make it sound cold. And as far a being a Christian oh yes anyone that believes in Jesus Christ is a Christian. But i was just speaking for myself is all. But i guess im not sure that everyone that is a Christian is Catholic. But again Its all leading back im afraid to my question. But if i do get a answer and it comes down to that Protestants are Catholic too and go the the Catholic Church also. Oh no because when i tell all of my protestant friends and i do have many. And trust me i love them and they are good people. I think i am going to be the next one up there on that cross.
 
When you start to study Moral Theology, you will begin to see moral choices in three terms:
  1. Circumstances
  2. Intentions
  3. Objective sense
In alomst all case, when someone is appealing to to make their case, they start talking about how good their intentions are. I want to kill my baby in my womb because I do not love it and there are too many people in the world, yadda, yadda.

Or, I am not old enough to raise this baby, so my circumstances justify my decision.

When the truth is, there is an objective sense, and objective reality that is always true. The baby is alive, and to kill it is always worng, no matter what the circumstance, and no matter what the intention.

Same with Saul and God.

Same with the Churches authority to teach on Moral issues,.

Gene
Gene GOD gave saul the command to kill everything. Man, woman, child/baby, animal, everything. Do you suggest that while killing in and of itself is wrong, Saul was right in obeying GOD. Or are you saying GOD was wrong? This is a tough one isn’t it??

An Evangelist tried to explain it this way. When GOD wanted to wipe out a nation he did so because it was evil. We have no problem with seeing evil men put to their death and sometimes applaud saying that justice from GOD was served. Then when women and children are killed we think “oh my” what a crime. As this evangelist states we don’t see things as GOD does. GOD knows how those generations of people will turn out including the babies. Maybe the babies were destined to grow up more evil than their predecessors. This is difficult to reason out in our minds because GOD says thou shall not kill, yet has commanded people to kill. Read Habakkuk if you haven’t. A most interesting coversation between GOD and man.

If you are referring to abortion above yes it’s disgusting. Perhaps the young ladies who make these decisions should take a step back and practice abstaining from sex until marriage. What a novel idea. Then the good intentions as you so well described would not even be in the equation. I’d like to ask maam tell me something. When you decided to engage in sex did you have good intentions of having a baby and raising it according to GOD’s standards? Or were you just having sex to satisfy you own selfish desires and the baby was just an honest accident!!??? Of course the church has the authority to teach on moral issues. Would never deny that.
 
You my friend i agree once again 100% on this, And when i said that is why they belong in the Protestant Church i didnt mean to make it sound cold. And as far a being a Christian oh yes anyone that believes in Jesus Christ is a Christian. But i was just speaking for myself is all. But i guess im not sure that everyone that is a Christian is Catholic. But again Its all leading back im afraid to my question. But if i do get a answer and it comes down to that Protestants are Catholic too and go the the Catholic Church also. Oh no because when i tell all of my protestant friends and i do have many. And trust me i love them and they are good people. I think i am going to be the next one up there on that cross.
Rinnie - I didn’t think you meant it to be cold. You’re just so used to seeing Jesus on the cross that it struck you “funny” as in funny strange not funny “HA HA”. Just keep telling your Protestant friends you love them because the best thing you can do as Jesus kind of states is: “kill your enemies with kindness.” They eventually will be overcome with pure shame for their actions. Not implying they are your enemies of course but I think you know what I mean.

I don’t believe you will see the word Protestant in the title of a church. I way be wrong here but I’ve never seen it. This again doesn’t mean anything either because I haven’t been to very many places:) I think your hangup with the word Catholic is that you see it as the church Jesus founded. And while no Protestant would ever disagree with you the modern day use of Catholic has evolved to Roman Catholic which Protestants view as one branch of the Catholic church. Just like the Orthodox Catholic church doesn’t submit to the authority of Rome they still view themselves as Catholic, part of the universal church of Jesus. If you said to an Orthodox Catholic are you Catholic? They would say yes but not Roman Catholic because we don’t submit to the Pope.

Protestants would probably say yes we are Catholic but not Roman Catholic for the same reason as above. It seems Protestants would rather keep the word Catholic completely out of their names because of fear that they are aligning with Rome. Sometimes I think it’s so extreme that Protestants will counter anything Catholic just because it’s viewed as being associated with Rome. The bottom line is the perceived hatred each side has for the other is disgusting. Not speaking for all Protestants and certainly not for all Roman Catholics. But just as the muslims have their extremists that we call terrorists, the same can be said for Protestants and Roman Catholics. There will always be extremists. FYI I’m not calling Protestant and Roman Catholic extremists “terrorists”. Forgive me everyone.

Rinnie here is a link to an interesting article that attempts to explain the language used in Matthew 16. The on this rock debate.

lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/2003-September/026304.html

The article supports the belief I’ve always had which is Jesus was referring to the truth of Peters words and not Peter himself. BUT, I’m no language expert and certainly would not point to this article as sufficient proof for my belief. Nor do I wish to open the can of worms Peter debate:)

PEACE and GOD Bless
 
Quote CalmD:
What is the difference between this “teaching” and any of your so-called “secondary teachings”?

When I say secondary I refer specifically to things not relevant to our Salvation. Plain and simple. Tell me what’s absolutely needed for salvation and then I’ll tell you everything else is secondary.
Is doing everything that one can to the best of one’s ability to do as Jesus has commanded us to do necessary (“absolutely needed”) for our salvation?
 
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What does your “based on Jesus” mean!? Is it simply saying “Lord Lord!”? If that is someones opinion of what their faith “being based on Jesus” means, then are they saved?

Accepting Jesus as your Savior and adhering to your Faith. That’s what based on Jesus is. I’m not saved based on satan. Are you? Is anyone?
What does “accepting” means in this context?

What does “Savior” mean in this context?

What does “adhering” mean in this context?

That does “faith”, or even “Faith”, mean in this context?

Please be as specific in answering these questions as possible.

If you’re really interested in evangelizing to me, you’ll have to humbly, as we’re told, inform me of where you’re coming from so that the truth of it makes me a true believer, and not a heathen Catholic.

If you’re not interested, then yet another non-evangelist evangelist is unmasked.
 
🙂 hi the original question of this thread “how can any religion that goes by the bible not beleive in the catholic church” the simplest answer to this question can be pride. ie i beleive God told me this so i beleive it to be true because i beleive it to be true so it must be true.and because i beleive what i believe to be true i do not need some one to tell me what to beleive.the fact is no single church but the catholic church can trace it’s leadership back to Christ Himself. fact Christ’s church began with Himself and those He Himself sent forth.if i choose to beleive one thing i can easily find some group to support that beleif even if it is against God’s word.
 
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No. The only way for our faith to based on Jesus is to follow Jesus in every way he has told us. To not do as He says is to choose “not-God” at our end, and volunteer for hell.

Again. AMEN AMEN AMEN. Why do you act like I’m saying the complete opposite??
My contention is that we are to do what Jesus says to do in every way HE has told us to do it.

Your contention is that “**you **know” what is “necessary” to do, and only need to do those things.

Do you see the difference in that?
 
Is doing everything that one can to the best of one’s ability to do as Jesus has commanded us to do necessary (“absolutely needed”) for our salvation?
Good question because now you get into the works part of Faith. Salvation plain and simple is believing in Jesus. John 3:16. It just doesn’t get any simpler than that. If you want to talk about Faith + Works then feel free to ask.
 
What does “accepting” means in this context?

What does “Savior” mean in this context?

What does “adhering” mean in this context?

That does “faith”, or even “Faith”, mean in this context?
Are you asking because you don’t know or are you asking to try and see if I know?
Please be as specific in answering these questions as possible.
I thought I was being specific with regard to the context of the question. Why don’t you tell me what you would like to know and I will accomodate you with as much specificity as I can.
If you’re really interested in evangelizing to me, you’ll have to humbly, as we’re told, inform me of where you’re coming from so that the truth of it makes me a true believer, and not a heathen Catholic. If you’re not interested, then yet another non-evangelist evangelist is unmasked.
Are you admitting that you are a heathen Catholic and are indeed in need of help? Or are you just trying to make a case to dismiss me as an evangelist?? If you are lying then you are committing a sin so be careful which way you take this conversation.
 
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It’s VERY true that people think they can be saved by picking and choosing doctrines to follow, but are you claiming that your doing so, because they do so, is justification for thinking yourself saved because you’re no worse than they are?

That’s a big stretch. I follow the doctrine of Faith let me say that. That doctrine says that if I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior with all my heart, soul, and mind. I’m saved.
Since you have “one doctrine”, which is generally correct, and are free to interpret it as you wish, may God guide you in your choices so as to follow Him and prevent you from mistaking those guiding-hands that are not from God and following them.

If you’re ever uncertain, as the good and gentle folks who were lead to Jones’ Town may or may not have been, of who it is that is guiding you, you’ve always got a true source of discernment of what the truth is in the Church.
That’s called Faith. There’s a difference between saying you have faith and actually living it out. Living it out means not becoming a slave to sin and aligning youself with Jesus. Becoming a Doulas (Greek for Slave) to Jesus Christ. And literally agonizing over every decision you make every minute of every single day to purposely do your best to reject sin. I may attend a non-denominational church where I serve as a Deacon but I can guarantee you Jesus is with us and we are soooo with HIM. When I pass from this life I find it hard to believe my Saviour would turn his back on me.
Best to you in doing your absolute best and most thorough striving to do God’s will for you to do, and shedding your wants which conflict with your needs.
 
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Originally Posted by rinnie
I can answer this one God is everywhere. But its sad to say so is the Devil.

Rinnie is the Devil also in the Catholic church?
Wherever there is man, there is Satan!

But, what do you specifically mean by “in the Catholic Church”?
 
My contention is that we are to do what Jesus says to do in every way HE has told us to do it.

Your contention is that “**you **know” what is “necessary” to do, and only need to do those things.

Do you see the difference in that?
I only need to have Faith in Jesus for my salvation. Period end of story. I know what is necessary not because of what I think I know. It doesn’t matter what I think. I need to do what Jesus tells me to do.

You’re talking in extreme circles here. Do you know what you are supposed to do?? If you answer yes then how are you any different from me? How did you find out? How do you think I found out??
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbl9
hi inchrist101…a catholic church building has no private owners but is owned by the church it’s self.2 i know in the catholic church He is still present pysically and in spirit.in your building no…3 God is free to make His presence where ever He wills.but if you are asking about His physical presence then yes and only at the consercartion of the Eucharist.4 then if you want God’s answer ask Him. this has been a ineresting chat my son wants to get out to the shop so we can work on his go-cart.peace.

Enjoy. But when you get a chance. Tell me why he wouldn’t still be in my building. Why only yours. What’s so special about it?
Do you know what “Consecrated Host” is?

Do you have “Consecrated Host” in your church-building?

God is wherever that there are people who believe in Him, but if people are the only “bearers” of Christs presence, how can a mere building, which certainly is “people”, contain God?

I, personally, DO think that when people have “consecrated” a building by thinking of it as a place of God, that God does in spirit reside there, but He only resides in real presence, in His actual Body and Blood, where those authorized to make His presence known in that way have done so.

That is what’s special about a Catholic church-building.

My question to you is: Since we can do this and you can’t, do you think that we should be dis-allowed from doing it because it’s “not fair” to those who can’t do it?
 
Since you have “one doctrine”, which is generally correct, and are free to interpret it as you wish, may God guide you in your choices so as to follow Him and prevent you from mistaking those guiding-hands that are not from God and following them.

If you’re ever uncertain, as the good and gentle folks who were lead to Jones’ Town may or may not have been, of who it is that is guiding you, you’ve always got a true source of discernment of what the truth is in the Church.
And may GOD always be with you and Bless you and your family.
Best to you in doing your absolute best and most thorough striving to do God’s will for you to do, and shedding your wants which conflict with your needs.
AMEN and GOD BLESS!!!
 
The devil tries to get everywhere.

Keep reading that Acts chapter and see who makes the ruling. It was James not Peter. Actually before that take notice that the Apostles AND the elders were gathered to discuss this. This is how they worked. Like a council. Peter didn’t just say this is how it is. They actually drafted a letter as a group and as a group decided who would deliver it. See Peter acting like the Pope making those decisions. Then flip to Galatians and read how Paul publicly rebuked Peter for his behavior. Look at the words used to describe Peter’s behavior. Not very fitting of a Pope wouldn’t you say? How dare Paul talk to the first Pope like that!!
inChrist-
Sadly you’re interpretation is wrong again.

Look how James’ “judgement”(Acts 15:20) is in direct agreement with the original rhetorical question by Peter of not placing a yoke on the Gentiles that they themselves could not bear. James was simply agreeing with what Peter said, not issueing any order.

Two, Paul, as with Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew, were not reproving Peter not for his doctrine but for his failure of will. They were faulting him for not living up to his own doctrine.

At the council it was Peter that ***defined the doctrine *** which James confirmed and adapted.

Acts 11, when “the circumcision party” confronted him, Peter simply explained to them what God had shown him-and their hostility ended, immediately, without dissent, discussion, or further questioning. “When they heard this they were silenced” (Acts 11:18)

Peter’s authority was, in many ways, like the authority of the other Apostles. Yes, he shared power with them; he consulted with them; he received correction from them. Yet the buck always stopped with him. In Acts 1, Peter directed the apostolic college on how they with the crisis of Judas’ death.

I would ask you inChrist if the office of the apostles wasn’t meant to continue in their predesessors why do they quote the OT (Acts 1:20) “His office let another take.”? Can we really persuade ourselves that this prerogative of succession was given to Judas but not to Peter?

I don’t think so.

Clement(Phillipians 4:3) who was given Peter’s office after his death in Rome wrote to the church in Corinth, “You will give us joy and gladness if you render obedience unto the things written by us through the Holy Spirit.”

Ignatuis of Antioch(105 A.D.) addressed the Roman Church- which Peter had been in charge of and passed this office onto Clement before his death-“the Church worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and presiding in love, maintaining the law of Christ.”

Irenaeus (190 A.D.) in speaking of the Roman Church: “With this Church it is necessary that every Church, that is, the faithful who are everywhere, should be in agreement, because of her greater sovereignty; in which the apostolic tradition has always been safeguarded.”

From the earliest of her days, the universal Church-those who are everywhere-looked to Rome for leadership and sure doctrine. In the following centuries more great names of early Christianity-St. Athanasius, St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil of Caesarea, St. Augustine, St. Cyril of Alexandria-when they found themselves in trouble, they appealed to the See of Peter-to Rome-for vindication.

Christ intended Peter, and in following years those upon whom were called to Peter’s office, to be the personification of the unity that He intended for His Church.

You and other Protestants like you, reject Peter’s office.

Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
 
okay here is what hit me today. In church we say the Nicene Creed. Now my husband used to be protestant. I asked him if they every said the Apostles Creed. He said yes he believes they have. I said ok then how can you say that you believe in the catholic church but be opposed to the Catholic Bible. He said i dont know. Now if you are Roman Catholic you go by the pope correct. That is the church I go to. Now if you go to another catholic church but it isnt roman you are ruled by the bishop. Is that correct. Please no disrespect to anyone i am learning. But all in the nut shell a catholic church still goes by the catholic bible am i correct. Now if the protestant religion believes in the catholic church why is it called the protestant church.
Now you mention other churchs being “ruled” by bishops. Keep in mind that this is only true of a very very few number of other religions, most bishops are in union with Rome. They are sort of like congressmen.
The pope is president, cardinals are senators, bishops are congressmen, monsignors are governors, and priests mayors.

Most protestant religions do not have a central leader, or if they do it is usually some sort of group leadership. So they do not have bishops, or if they do, they do not have the same power as Catholic bishops.

I think all Protestants believe that there is such a thing as the Roman Catholic Church, but all believe that its doctrines are false. The reason protestant religions are called protestant is because they are protesting what the RCC teaches. That is how 98% of all original protestant religions got started: by protesting something the RCC taught.
Luther was protesting the selling of indugences
King Henry VIII was protesting the Church’s stance on divorce
ETC…
The mormons were different, but they are not Christian, so I will leave it there.
 
Don’t worry about Protestant friends. Half of my family is Protestant. We have come to a silent agreement not to talk religion. Instead we just try to preach through actions. The only Protestant relative we talk realigion with is my Great-Grandmother. She enjoys learning about Catholicism and she likes to know why we belive what we believe. One time she and my mom compared prayers like the Our Father and the Apostles creed. They are almost exactly the same. I always like to remember what St. Francis said:
“Preach always and when necessary use words”

No being Protestant is not even close to being Catholic. That is like saying an apple is the same as an orange. Sure, they are both fruit (Christians), but after that the similarities disappear. Some protestant religions are closer to Catholocism than others, but not one can be Catholic without believing in all that the RCC teaches.
I always feel so blessed that I was born into a family where I could believe in the Truth every day of my life.👍
 
Do you know what “Consecrated Host” is?
Of course I do.
Do you have “Consecrated Host” in your church-building?
Yes
God is wherever that there are people who believe in Him, but if people are the only “bearers” of Christs presence, how can a mere building, which certainly is “people”, contain God?
I believe GOD is everywhere. I don’t imply that he’s not in our building all the time. Like he packs up when we leave. This was my point to the previous poster. The claim they made was that GOD was not in our building. Glad they can speak for GOD. I asked if he was when we had services on sunday. I never received an answer.
I, personally, DO think that when people have “consecrated” a building by thinking of it as a place of God, that God does in spirit reside there, but He only resides in real presence, in His actual Body and Blood, where those authorized to make His presence known in that way have done so.
That is what’s special about a Catholic church-building.
I look at it a different way. If I walk into a Catholic church or any church for that matter I believe in GOD’s spiritual presence. I don’t then walk out and say: OK I’m not in GOD’s spiritual presence anymore. GOD took up physical presence in the Temple in the form of smoke that was visible to everyone. GOD left the temple and as far as I know has not taken up physical residence in any building in that form. If you know of one please do tell. With that being said I believe GOD is everywhere spiritually at all times. To say that HE is not is to deny HIS Omnipresence. Roman Catholic church buildings are no more special than non-Roman Catholic church buildings. Or any building in the world. GOD is everywhere. Roman Catholic churches don’t have a corner on GOD.
My question to you is: Since we can do this and you can’t, do you think that we should be dis-allowed from doing it because it’s “not fair” to those who can’t do it?
What is the “this” thing you are referring to that you can do but I can’t?? I need some help here. I get the impression that Roman Catholics have the sense that they ARE and HAVE to do more than non-Roman Catholics to get to Heaven. It’s almost as if you are saying “hey, why do they think they can go to Heaven and they do less than we do”? Is that a fair statement? And is that your question?
 
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