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Joero
Guest
What particular verse of the bible was that, DaisyD ?
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MaryD7
Guest
Hey, Stompalot!
First off, for a great discussion on the word catholic/Catholic please see this thread. The posters here explain it much better than I ever could. boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700007923
As a convert to Catholicism I understand your questions about Mary perfectly because I, myself, had them. I think this may be one of the hardest things for Protestants to accept. Itâs like our brains wonât/canât wrap around this âMary businessâ. I think that it might do well to back up the trolley at this point.
Nobody is putting Mary on the same level as Jesus when they call her sinless. What they are saying is that in order to carry the Son of God she had to be pure. Protestants take virgin to be what is meant by pure. But is it necessary to stop at that?
I remember when I was young I would wonder about this woman who I was named after. I knew, even back then as a Protestant, that I could in no way, shape or form, ever be âgoodâ enough to carry Jesus. There was no way because I sinned so much (still do, much to my chagrin
). This Mary who carried Jesus had to be special indeed to be chosen by God to fulfill the prophecies given in the Old Testament.
Now, letâs take it one step further. Have you ever met anybody that is âholyâ? What I mean by âholyâ is that you canât imagine them ever doing anything wrong? I only know of one person that I met who was like this. Itâs my husbandâs aunt who was a Dominican nun. (I first met her when I was still a Protestant.) Oh my goodness, I canât imagine this woman doing anything that was a sin. There was just something about her ⌠an innocence, a pure love of God, a gentleness. Itâs hard to put into words but I wasnât the only one who saw this. Her father, who was a son of a gun, knew instinctively that there was something âdifferentâ about her and never laid a hand on her and treated her with kit gloves. My husbandâs Aunt Marie was not perfect nor did she ever claim to be. She was human, could not see into the future, made human mistakes ⌠but she, in my opinion, was spiritually holy. It was how God made her.
Now if someone like this could exist in the 20th century wouldnât it be entirely plausible that the woman chosen by God to bring for His Son would be this way, and even more so? God isnât going to ask a rank and file member like me to carry His Son. No ⌠He would chose someone He created as holy.
This holiness is what Catholics are honoring. They realize that thereâs something about Mary (hey, that could be a movie title!) that set her apart from others. They understand how God would love this woman and indeed, by the Bibleâs own words, âThe Lord is with youâ. He didnât say only with you NOW or tomorrow but with you, meaning forever.
Thatâs a pretty holy woman.
I have to stop here because I have to go do some errands but I hope some of the premise that I laid out here helps you understand why Catholics look at Mary the way they do. I think anyone, Catholic or not, would have to admit that Mary must have been a pretty special creation of God to be chosen to carry His Son.
First off, for a great discussion on the word catholic/Catholic please see this thread. The posters here explain it much better than I ever could. boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700007923
As a convert to Catholicism I understand your questions about Mary perfectly because I, myself, had them. I think this may be one of the hardest things for Protestants to accept. Itâs like our brains wonât/canât wrap around this âMary businessâ. I think that it might do well to back up the trolley at this point.
Nobody is putting Mary on the same level as Jesus when they call her sinless. What they are saying is that in order to carry the Son of God she had to be pure. Protestants take virgin to be what is meant by pure. But is it necessary to stop at that?
I remember when I was young I would wonder about this woman who I was named after. I knew, even back then as a Protestant, that I could in no way, shape or form, ever be âgoodâ enough to carry Jesus. There was no way because I sinned so much (still do, much to my chagrin
). This Mary who carried Jesus had to be special indeed to be chosen by God to fulfill the prophecies given in the Old Testament.Now, letâs take it one step further. Have you ever met anybody that is âholyâ? What I mean by âholyâ is that you canât imagine them ever doing anything wrong? I only know of one person that I met who was like this. Itâs my husbandâs aunt who was a Dominican nun. (I first met her when I was still a Protestant.) Oh my goodness, I canât imagine this woman doing anything that was a sin. There was just something about her ⌠an innocence, a pure love of God, a gentleness. Itâs hard to put into words but I wasnât the only one who saw this. Her father, who was a son of a gun, knew instinctively that there was something âdifferentâ about her and never laid a hand on her and treated her with kit gloves. My husbandâs Aunt Marie was not perfect nor did she ever claim to be. She was human, could not see into the future, made human mistakes ⌠but she, in my opinion, was spiritually holy. It was how God made her.
Now if someone like this could exist in the 20th century wouldnât it be entirely plausible that the woman chosen by God to bring for His Son would be this way, and even more so? God isnât going to ask a rank and file member like me to carry His Son. No ⌠He would chose someone He created as holy.
This holiness is what Catholics are honoring. They realize that thereâs something about Mary (hey, that could be a movie title!) that set her apart from others. They understand how God would love this woman and indeed, by the Bibleâs own words, âThe Lord is with youâ. He didnât say only with you NOW or tomorrow but with you, meaning forever.
Thatâs a pretty holy woman.
I have to stop here because I have to go do some errands but I hope some of the premise that I laid out here helps you understand why Catholics look at Mary the way they do. I think anyone, Catholic or not, would have to admit that Mary must have been a pretty special creation of God to be chosen to carry His Son.
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VociMike
Guest
There is no discrepency. What is the discrepency here? There is people rejecting the one Church founded by Christ and deciding, on their own, that all they need is the bible. And immediately there arise various erroneous traditions of men in how to interpret the bible (for no two denominations or ânon-denominationsâ interpret it the same). And the most pervasive of these erroneous traditions of men is that all Christian truth is explicitly contained in the bible. Once you place that limitation on yourself, you are guaranteed to fall into error and misunderstanding.
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GandalfTheWhite
Guest
True and thatâs what I said. But being born again will not necessarily save you eitherâŚ
Was Jesus practicing Necromancery during his Transfiguration?
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andzy
Guest
And does Rev.5:8 also reflect necromancy (elders in heaven presenting prayers of the saints - they must have gotten those prayers somehow)?
CatholicCajun
New member
I was always under the impression that after her eartly life had ended she was assumed body and soul into Heaven becasue the body that bore Chirst was not fit to be food for worms. 
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TraditionalCath
Guest
Mary died before she was assumed into heaven.
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TraditionalCath
Guest
untrue. maryâs body was immaculately conceived. she was preserved from the stain of original sin. she had a perfect body.I was always under the impression that after her eartly life had ended she was assumed body and soul into Heaven becasue the body that bore Chirst was not fit to be food for worms.
see this link from Catholic Answers library:
catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp
and also see this from Blessed Pius IX:
Ineffabilis Deus
papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ineff.htm
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VociMike
Guest
As far as I know, Catholics are free to believe either that Mary died or that she didnât. The Church has not declared either way.
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TraditionalCath
Guest
Read the Mystical Cty of God by Venerable Mary of Agreda
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Penitus
Guest
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TraditionalCath
Guest
From the Mystical City of God:
Book Eight:
âAnd as the angels intoned those verses of the second of the Canticles: âSurge, propera, amica mea,â that is to say: âArise, haste, my beloved, my dove, my beautiful one, and come, the winter has passed,â etc., She pronounced those words of her Son on the Cross: âInto thy hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit.â Then She closed her virginal eyes and expired.â
âShe died at the moment when the divine power suspended the assistance, which until then had counteracted the sensible ardors of her burning love of God. As soon as this miraculous assistance was withdrawn, the fire of her love consumed the life-humors of her heart and thus caused the cessation of her earthly existence.â
geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/7194/book8c6.html
Book Eight:
âAnd as the angels intoned those verses of the second of the Canticles: âSurge, propera, amica mea,â that is to say: âArise, haste, my beloved, my dove, my beautiful one, and come, the winter has passed,â etc., She pronounced those words of her Son on the Cross: âInto thy hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit.â Then She closed her virginal eyes and expired.â
âShe died at the moment when the divine power suspended the assistance, which until then had counteracted the sensible ardors of her burning love of God. As soon as this miraculous assistance was withdrawn, the fire of her love consumed the life-humors of her heart and thus caused the cessation of her earthly existence.â
geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/7194/book8c6.html
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The belief of the assumption date back to Apostolic times. The earliest record is base on the Dormition of Mary. In this Mary accepted her death just as Christ did. Christ then raise his mother from the dead and took her up in heaven. The Apostles went to Maryâs tomb and find it empty.
I believe that Mary did in fact die base on our Eastern Byzantine Traditions, was raised from the dead and taken up into heaven by God.
âIf the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal oneâŚHad she been martyred according to what is written: âThine own soul a sword shall pierceâ, then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world."
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).
â[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lordâs chosen onesâŚâ Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).
âAs the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.â Modestus of Jerusalem, Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae (PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634).
âIt was fitting âŚthat the most holy-body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory âŚshould be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God.â Theoteknos of Livias, Homily on the Assumption (ante A.D. 650).
âYou are she who, as it is written, appears in beauty, and your virginal body is all holy, all chaste, entirely the dwelling place of God, so that it is henceforth completely exempt from dissolution into dust. Though still human, it is changed into the heavenly life of incorruptibility, truly living and glorious, undamaged and sharing in perfect life.â Germanus of Constantinople, Sermon I (PG 98,346), (ante A.D. 733).
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TraditionalCath
Guest
J
Joero
Guest
In addition to this post, there is a logical reason why the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was declared.
In Heb. 9:14 it says â⌠Through the eternal Spirit He offered Himself as a perfect sacrifice to GodâŚâ
This statement proves that the human nature of Christ was perfect and it can not be denied that His human nature came from the Blessed Virgin Mary, from whom He got His body and blood to atone for our sins.
Nothing impure can enter heaven ( Rev. 21:27). The Blessed Virgin Mary qualifies for this statement for she is sinless.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
I also believe the Assumption of Mary is implied in Rev 12:1
And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
There a woman appear in heaven. I know this woman to be Mary because of the Child she gave birth to can be identified as Jesus. One can ask, how did she get there? She assumed. Pure logicâŚ
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TraditionalCath
Guest
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TraditionalCath
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VociMike
Guest
But that would be in the manner of a private revelation, wouldnât it?
I donât want to make a big issue out of this. Iâm just saying that, AFAIK, the Church has not made an authoritative statement one way or the other. Iâm open to correction if that is not the case.
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TraditionalCath
Guest
i would also like an answer to the official churchâs position on this.
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