Yes, I agree with you. But why cannot we ask the saints in heaven to pray for us too?Intercessor between God and man Heb 7:25
Also Rom 8:26 Holy Spirit as intercessor.
It’s right there in Rev 5 and Rev 8. What you really mean is that there is nothing in your particular tradition of men that states it.There is nothing in the bible that states that if you pray to someone who has died, they will bring the prayer to God the father.
I see you moved the goalposts. Who is “calling up the dead”? And your scriptural references have nothing to do with the question. You would see that if you did not view them through the tradition of men that you have been taught.On the other hand the bible does say not to call up the dead Deut 18:11.
An even better reference is Is 8:19
Is 8:19 and Deut 18:11 tells us not to do this kind of thing.Yes, I agree with you. But why cannot we ask the saints in heaven to pray for us too?
Nobody is saying that they take the place of praying to Jesus nor the Holy Spirit as intercessor. We are simply asking the saints to pray for us in the perfect way that can only be found in heaven.
Those two verses have nothing to do with saints. They have to do with mediums and seances and things of that ilk. That has nothing to do with asking the saints in heaven to pray for us.Is 8:19 and Deut 18:11 tells us not to do this kind of thing.
I read the Word of God.It’s right there in Rev 5 and Rev 8. What you really mean is that there is nothing in your particular tradition of men that states it.
I see you moved the goalposts. Who is “calling up the dead”? And your scriptural references have nothing to do with the question. You would see that if you did not view them through the tradition of men that you have been taught.
What is required to be a “saint”? I was under the impression that you had to be in Heaven to be a saint. If that is not the case, please let me know. But, if that is the case, then wouldn’t Rev5:8 HAVE to be referring to those who have died and have gone to Heaven?And does Rev.5:8 also reflect necromancy (elders in heaven presenting prayers of the saints - they must have gotten those prayers somehow)?
But God would have work three of them through you to Prove that your are a “Saint”.I do not have to perform three miracles to prove I am a saint.
When you ask the saints (in Heaven) to pray on your behalf, you are not asking a dead body to pray for you, you are asking a living soul, a soul united with God. Why close the door on that? Doesn’t that sound even better than to ask a living sinner, alive on Earth to pray for you? This isn’t about dead bodies.I read the Word of God.
Children of God, those who do the will of God, those are saints.
I am a saint. 1cor1:2
The church’s definition of a saint differs from the biblical definition.
I do not have to perform three miracles to prove I am a saint.
That is church tradition it has no foundation in the Bible.But God would have work three of them through you to Prove that your are a “Saint”.
Read 1corinthians, it describes saints as living people who do the will of the Father. 1Cor1:2.What is required to be a “saint”? I was under the impression that you had to be in Heaven to be a saint. If that is not the case, please let me know. But, if that is the case, then wouldn’t Rev5:8 HAVE to be referring to those who have died and have gone to Heaven?
I am sorry you limit your understanding of God and what he wants from us to only what’s in the bible.That is church tradition it has no foundation in the Bible.
No, the Bible is not the only source of Christian knowledge. We also have Tradition and it clearly states that Mary was assumed into Heaven.sorry guys for being a little “upfront”, but i am a Protestant attending a catholic school. i hear that catholics teach that “mary assended body and soul to heaven before she died”.
hmmmm, where do catholics get this idea from? i mean, as far as i am concerned, the Bible never mentions this. and, isnt that the only source of christian knowledge?
at the moment, i totally disagree with this teaching. but, no one at school has been able to argue their beliefs to me (they all thought it was taught in the bible). please, i am open to debate, i want to know the reasons why catholics believe this so that i am not simply blindly denying this teaching.
Just curious- do you take any English classes at your school?y do u want me to prove it? im asking u. if u cant even explain y u believe in what u believe in then whats the point?
This is a distortion of the Church’s teaching, The Church does not “make” anyone a Saint. It only “recognizes” it publiclly as to provide a role model for living a life of heroic virtue.Church practice of making someone a saint after they have died and can prove three miracles has no biblical foundation.
Who’s interpretation do you follow here? Because if you read Rev 4-5 carefully, you’ll see that those people are in front of God’s throne and encircling it, thus this clearly takes place in heaven (even NIV has a heading “The Throne in Heaven”). Namely, people in heaven (saints) bring prayer on behalf of others to God.The saints in Rev5:8 are people living on earth who haven’t died yet.
Here, I just showed you. And there are other references, too. If something is not in the Bible, then it is the Scripture Alone teaching. Of course, it’s up to you, who’s interpretation you’re going to follow…That is church tradition it has no foundation in the Bible.
Jesus did not call on Moses and Elijah.When you ask the saints (in Heave
You never answered though if Jesus himself was practicing necromancy during the Transfiguration.
Could you show me where the Bible directs us to make a person a saint according the the Catholic tradition regarding three miracles?I am sorry you limit your understanding of God and what he wants from us to only what’s in the bible.
Also you are completely wrong. All of the Church’s teachings can find their foundation in the scriptures, either explicitly or implicitly.
Neither is intercessionary prayer to the saints. Asking the saints to pray for you is no different than me ask you to pray for me.Jesus did not call on Moses and Elijah.
Calling on the dead or praying to the dead is necromancy.
Moses and Elijah appeared. Which is totally different.
Only if you can show me where in the bible that it says it (the bible) is the sole source of revelation.Could you show me where the Bible directs us to make a person a saint according the the Catholic tradition regarding three miracles?
Do you believe in an eternal soul? If so, why is it wrong to talk to, or ask for prayers from that living soul? No one is going to a crypt to talk directly to a corpse, we are speaking of souls, not bodies. Since my wife died a couple of years ago I have talked to her on occasion. I encourage our young children to talk to her. Does that make us necromancers? The idea hardly seems practical. You are taking 2 completely unrelated things and trying to tie them together.Jesus did not call on Moses and Elijah.
Calling on the dead or praying to the dead is necromancy.
Moses and Elijah appeared. Which is totally different.