Change of heart on socialized medicine

[pathia]

If I called pathia a man you would have jumped on me, wouldn’t you?

I don’t really identify with either gender, if you get right down to it. I’m not offended by either pronoun, they’re just words. In other words, don’t worry about it. If God couldn’t make up his mind with me, I can’t insist anyone else do either

 

[fultonfish]

The risky bond swaps that took place with mortgages are what tanked the economy, and they happened because of deregulation. Not enough government intervention is as bad as too much. Re: food safety as an example.

We can do better than we are doing.

The problems with mortgages took place because of interference by Barney Frank and others with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. President George Bush issued warning after warning for his entire term of eight years, but the Democrats effectively controlled the committees of Congress and he was unable to get regulations put in place to restrain Barney Frank, and the others. This has been discussed at great length on other threads at CAF. There are also numerous YouTube clips of the warnings.

We can do better by allowing MORE competition. The Federal and state government prohibit private companies from offering improved medical insurance.

With respect to the government, here is a challenge for you. Tell us about HCFA.

 

[aspawloski4th]

If I called pathia a man you would have jumped on me, wouldn’t you?

Well Pathia sounds feminine. Arwen doesn’t. And you do write in the style of a male.

I’m not saying everyone who is without health care or a job chose it. But the government doesn’t distinguish between those who do and those who don’t. Which is part of my problem with it.
Because when you do you hve to have concrete definitions, which is impossible.
Edit: Oh, and I’m not a business type. I’m in physical therapy. You know what they say about assuming.
You defend business like it cant do any wrong, I as well as many others define that as a business type.

Again I never said everyone, but again the government doesn’t distinguish.

By “the” I assume you mean the Bible. Yes, God put wealth in the hands of the CHURCH, not the STATE. And if there never was supposed to be a Bible, then why did God inspire it? Are you saying God didn’t mean to inspire men to write the Bible? If you aren’t, then the Bible was supposed to be here.

The Bilbe didn’t get defines till approxementally 300 AD, it didn’t get compiled till 400 AD and in the hands of lay people till about 1700. You were supposed to get the teaching you need from your priest and the Holy See. By the way Bible means basic information before leaving Earth, not ALL information before leaving Earth like you seem to think.

 

[aspawloski4th]

The problems with mortgages took place because of interference by Barney Frank and others with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. President George Bush issued warning after warning for his entire term of eight years, but the Democrats effectively controlled the committees of Congress and he was unable to get regulations put in place to restrain Barney Frank, and the others. This has been discussed at great length on other threads at CAF. There are also numerous YouTube clips of the warnings.

We can do better by allowing MORE competition. The Federal and state government prohibit private companies from offering improved medical insurance.

With respect to the government, here is a challenge for you. Tell us about HCFA.

The real interference in baking and mortages started with the 1980 fractional reserve banking act. Everything after that is a moot point.

 

[royal_archer]

Well until recently I worked 60 to 80 hours a week at physical work to support a disabled and unhealthy wife. That is very extremely tiring. It has caused my blood pressure to go through the roof as well as frequent migraines. I have a well pronounced inability to handle excitement, which is a common trait in my family. I’m no unemployed and spedning much time jobsearching as well as trying to save my home and still take care of my wife’s deteriorating health. That kind of multitasking is overwealming to me. My need for sleep in order to function have gone up by more than a half this year. as far as the health care question. I see it as a mere paper money shuffle, with lots of printed money… Whether or not health care go through or not your taxes are going to be whatever they are going to be for the most part. That isnt charity, thats just paying your tax to society for society taking care of you, ie roads, schools, etc. All the health insurance comapnies are unethical, dishonest worhtless louses. All this hair splitting over what is covered and not is b.s. I had to threaten a lawyer one to get Blue Cross Blue Shield to cover what they promised to. Tjhe mob is a more honest business than health insurance is thesedays. They are no more moral than the thug that steals an 85 yearold lady’s purse.While I’m not looking to governemnt healcare for mericles its worth a try and cant be any worse than whats going on now.

So how do you proclaim the right to cast stones at those who are contributing to society and helping others?

 

[royal_archer]

It seems more like a kind of “natural justice” argument, loosely related to survival of the fittest. Those who cannot afford the service don’t deserve the service, even if they otherwise support themselves. Put simply access to health care should be a function of success.

You seem to keep missing or avoiding the point. It’s not that they cannot afford the service it is that they choose not to take the actions necesary to afford the service. (with some people who are rare exceptions that others what to exploit in order to misrepresent the majority in that situation)

 

[royal_archer]

I don’t want to stay here.

But you are here and unless you are on something like a criminal wanted list there is nothing stopping you from leaving except your will.

 

[royal_archer]

Why do people want to stay here? First I have no family out side the USA, second I don’t know another language. Third I am not a nomadic spirit, I hate the process of moving more than kidneystones. In my case there’s another person in the mix, my wife, she would never ever moving away from family( she was taught as a child that you dont do things like that), I’d have to lear another set of cultural ways of life, which at my ago, I dont have it in me to do. Telling some who is poor to move is silly.

Yet I had similar objections to moving but was forced to in order to keep a job. So I get my pay check because I did something you were unwilling to do and now you proclaim to have more of a right to my paycheck than I do?

 

[aspawloski4th]

Yet I had similar objections to moving but was forced to in order to keep a job. So I get my pay check because I did something you were unwilling to do and now you proclaim to have more of a right to my paycheck than I do?

State in exact terms what you did for your paycheck then we will discuss whether I was unwilling or not You havent read my posts about paper shuffles and money created out of nothing , havent you?

 

[aspawloski4th]

By the way I do have applications for jobs way away from where I live, and nothing yet.

 

[aspawloski4th]

So how do you proclaim the right to cast stones at those who are contributing to society and helping others?

Your attitude.

 

[royal_archer]

I know of nothing in either the Bible or Catholic teaching which says that the government cannot use its taxation powers to provide for the poor.

Thou shall not steal
Though shall not covet thy neighbors goods.

Bear in mind that in the Middle Ages the tithe was a legal tax imposed by “force” (to use your rather reductionistic language). I may be ignorant of your position (though I think not, since nothing you have said in this post has surprised me), but you appear to be ignorant of the Bible and Catholic tradition, to which you appeal.

Edwin

The New Testament simply dismiss taxes as a worldly issue: give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s and unto God what is God’s. Jesus did not say go to the governement to achieve the charity that you are unwilling to give. Giving to God is giving to the church and those in need, not giving to rich politicians so they can distribute the dollars in a way that will garner them the most votes.

In the case of tithing all contributed at the same rate. Unlike in our society where where a large mass of individuals are exploiting the political process in order to take money from a minority of people while they pay nothing.

So I agree with you that the Bible/Church does not say that paying taxes is a sin, It is clear that the Bible can not be used as justification for using coercive means to take from one and give it to another.

 

[royal_archer]

First off, I’m a girl. Female. You should use she, her, etc.

Second, you’re wrong. I support people’s rights. I believe it is a right to keep the money you work for. It is not a right to take away from someone else to pay your bills. It is a duty to help the less fortunate, but the government has no self-control. The government gives to people who choose not to work. The government enables irresponsibility in regards to personal health. I support the government taxing for the good of all, but this is only for the good of the poor. You do not have the right to demand that I turn over my money to you.

Finally, the bible doesn’t say we have to give the government the power to redistribute wealth. And the middle ages is a different situation. That behavior would not be allowed in this country because that would fall under establishment of a religion. I wouldn’t agree with that kind of tax either.

I don’t think they can comprehend that when the government takes the money very little actually gets to the needy. When you and I give directly to the poor or provide a job it helps people directly with a much larger return on investment.

 

[royal_archer]

Well sorry! Maam . We already tax people for the poor, it’s called medicaid. In my disabled wife’s case is called medicare, for which she would be dead if it didn’t exist.I’m sick and tired of you busniess type saying CHOOSE to work. I didn’t choose to be let go from my primary job, or hours slashed at my secondary job, you don’t know the meaning of choice sis. As far as personal health , most of that is genetic. You could eat the healthiest diet on the face of the Earth and you are not going to live byond 70 in my wife’s family. You can the worst stuff on earth in mine and it will take a Mac truck to take you life before 75 in my family. You could eat pure saturated fat and you cholesterol will never reach a 100 if you are in my father’s family.The doesn’t say much about wealth because God put that in the hands of the church, there never was supposed to be a Bible in the first place. Giving healthcare isn’t redistributing wealth.

I for one have made those choices. For instance I was at a temporary job with a dozen other temps and when the work was done, two of us went and found something productive to do while the others sat around waiting to be told what to do. A little while later that other person and I were put in charge and I was offered a full time job. (I think the other guy got a perm job elsewhere) Those people who sat around kept complaining about how unfair it was that they didn’t get to opportunity. A lot of what I read in these forums reminds me of those people who had the opportunity in front of them, chose to ignore it, and then compained that the world is unfair. That was one of many times I made a choice that gave me the chance to pull myself up. Since then I have seen many others that just seem incapable of understanding the opportunities in front of them because they have some type of entitlement mentality where they feel the opportunities should be handed to them on a silver platter. But those opportunities are like rocks in a stream, sometimes you have to turnover a lot of rocks to start finding the gold nuggets. With some here it seems like you tried a rock or two and then gave up when you did not get instant gratification. News flash those that persevere will succeed and those who are rewarded for not trying will be doomed to failure.

 

[royal_archer]

Amen brother. I think people like Arwen should “walk a mile in another mans shoes” before they make such brash judgements about programs like Medicare.

And, sorry, but I don’t buy the whole, “taxes aren’t charity because they’re making us be charitable” argument. It just sounds to me like another way of saying “I shouldn’t have to help other people unless I feel like it.”

Let’s say I get an extra hundred dollars. The crux of the conversation is either of two options.

1. I give the money to those around me who are needy. Four of these people each get $25.
2. The government takes it and some goes to politicians, some goes to pork projects, some goes to pencil pushers, some goes to foriegn countries and $25 of those dollars get spread over 100 Million people.

Personally, I think option 1 is the better option.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I for one have made those choices. For instance I was at a temporary job with a dozen other temps and when the work was done, two of us went and found something productive to do while the others sat around waiting to be told what to do. A little while later that other person and I were put in charge and I was offered a full time job. (I think the other guy got a perm job elsewhere) Those people who sat around kept complaining about how unfair it was that they didn’t get to opportunity. A lot of what I read in these forums reminds me of those people who had the opportunity in front of them, chose to ignore it, and then compained that the world is unfair. That was one of many times I made a choice that gave me the chance to pull myself up. Since then I have seen many others that just seem incapable of understanding the opportunities in front of them because they have some type of entitlement mentality where they feel the opportunities should be handed to them on a silver platter. But those opportunities are like rocks in a stream, sometimes you have to turnover a lot of rocks to start finding the gold nuggets. With some here it seems like you tried a rock or two and then gave up when you did not get instant gratification. News flash those that persevere will succeed and those who are rewarded for not trying will be doomed to failure.

I persevered over far more than 2 decades and actually worse off then when I started by some people’s standards I have no more energy left to persevere. News flash to you. I dont talk much when I go to work. I keep to myself and do my job. What you are talking about worked well 20- 30 or more years ago. Today everyone who is in charge thinks far outside the box. If I had been looking for a job 40 or more years ago, I’d be flourishing. What we were taught as children doesn’t apply anymore.

 

[royal_archer]

The real interference in baking and mortages started with the 1980 fractional reserve banking act. Everything after that is a moot point.

Is that “baking” as in “cooking” the books?

 

[royal_archer]

State in exact terms what you did for your paycheck then we will discuss whether I was unwilling or not You havent read my posts about paper shuffles and money created out of nothing , havent you?

Leaving family, leaving dying relatives, moving to foriegn and strange lands, selling property at a tremendous loss and racking up debt in the process, enduring long commutes because I couldn’t afford to live near work, etc.

 

[royal_archer]

By the way I do have applications for jobs way away from where I live, and nothing yet.

Great now you just need to follow up with letters, calls, and visits to make sure they know you are committed to the work.

 

[royal_archer]

I persevered over far more than 2 decades and actually worse off then when I started by some people’s standards I have no more energy left to persevere. News flash to you. I dont talk much when I go to work. I keep to myself and do my job. What you are talking about worked well 20- 30 or more years ago. Today everyone who is in charge thinks far outside the box. If I had been looking for a job 40 or more years ago, I’d be flourishing. What we were taught as children doesn’t apply anymore.

and do you think that not trying will work better for you?