Change of heart on socialized medicine

[Arwen037]

We were talking about real people’s experience and seeing for yourself. That’s what I see. For all I know for sure you could both be millionaires. If you don’t want to believe that the people who say Canada or Germany’s programs are bad, then I don’t have to believe you.

And I am not taking out, because I don’t need it. I’m only putting you. You’re only taking out. Which is my problem.

I never said we should make ripping people off illegal, at least the way you define it, but I don’t think we should legally force ripping people off.

I have offered solutions. See the post about saving EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS by regulating physician owned clinics and labs more. Or did you conveniently forget about that already? It was only about a page or two ago.

Asp, you are a violent person. You want to kill people for doing a job. Wow. You say that we aren’t being very Christian. You want to actively kill people. Maybe this is why you don’t have a decent job. You can’t play nice with others.

And you want all or nothing. You want everything covered by other people. If we don’t pay for you, then no one deserves anything.

And people making millions does have a function. Then the buy businesses, hire people, and they buy things that people then have to make. Do you really think we should make it illegal to make millions? Then you really do want to remove every incentive to work.

 

[royal_archer]

But if we had no social programs what so ever, I would have frozen to death. Remember, religious based homeless shelters turned me away, if there was no secular or government housing, I would probably not have survived my homeless episode.

There are secular charities. There are also millions of people who can provide you a place to sleep if you need it. Why would ALL of your neighbors, acquaintences, friends, fellow parishiners, etc ALL turn you down? seems like there is more to the story.

 

[royal_archer]

Well…see…this is only for check ups on the whole. THIS WAS ONLY ONE TIME THINGIE! There was a family of 5 children who were checked out and the baby, who was only 1 yr old, had to have to have HEART SURGERY! This family could not even afford to go to the doctor’s, never mind. Dr Oz arranged to have the surgery done for free as she would have died in another 2 years!

I admire this greatly…I admire the doctors and the nurses who volunteered their time and expertise. But they can’t do this every day as they need to work also. It should not have to be this way. It should not be that the people are full of anxiety because they can’t see a doctor because they have been dropped like the plague. It seems like these people were in Africa for heaven’s sake. That baby would be dead and the rest of the family survives on over the counter medicine! WOW!

And you don’t care?

It is not a matter of not carring, I do care but want to avoid a greater evil.

 

[royal_archer]

You may think that the world envies the US>>>>>>

I never said the world envies us. just that 45 million would rather live here with out health insurance than any where else in the world.

 

[royal_archer]

Better dead than m(name removed by moderator)ulated then?

would you rather be a slave or dead?

 

[pathia]

There are secular charities. There are also millions of people who can provide you a place to sleep if you need it. Why would ALL of your neighbors, acquaintences, friends, fellow parishiners, etc ALL turn you down? seems like there is more to the story.

I’m responding to your general belief that government run social programs are bad. I’m speaking of a world in where there were no government social net, which you seem to want. Not what I actually experienced.

I never said the world envies us. just that 45 million would rather live here with out health insurance than any where else in the world.

Emigrating is incredibly difficult, as almost all countries agree not to take those with high debt, to keep down fraud. I’m going to have to file bankruptcy and then hope to move out between that ink drying and another catastrophic medical episode in hopes that I don’t wrack up more debt that prohibits me from leaving permanently.

would you rather be a slave or dead?

Life is life, even when a slave. I don’t recall any bible verses calling for all slaves to commit suicide to be free.

 

[royal_archer]

In the case of a certain few who have posted in this thread that even applies more so,because they are wrapped up in the business world, which blinds them to real life in general. They wwill believe some statistic over a real person.

Unless that real person is one of millions who disagree with you obviously.

 

[royal_archer]

Yes I was speaking of RA and not you. With the way RA talks about business you’d think they can do no wrong if they wanted to. I ripoff somebody, I’m evil, business ripoffs somebody, they are just trying to make a profit. He doesn’t like it because I called him on the double standard.

You are justifing your agruement based on your own misguided opinion and preconceived notions. I have never advocated that buisnesses were somehow better than individiuals, nor have I ever justified wrong doing on the part of buisness. I have said that buisnesses offer people a chance to get a job, a living and health coverage. You just seem to have a hard time with anyone saying anything about buisness that does not reap of the hatred you have shown.

 

[royal_archer]

There’s a difference between it being bad and it being illegal. See drinking and smoking. Legally companies shouldn’t be allowed to “rip you off” in the sense they don’t give you what you pay for. Same thing applies to you. You want us to give you want you haven’t paid for (in work). But if by “rip you off” you mean charge more than you can afford for services you want/need, then they have the right to do that. I don’t think they should be required by law to cover people. Do I think morally they should charge outrageous prices, no. But moral is different than legal. This is something you don’t seem to be able to grasp. You can’t make everything bad illegal.

Speaking of double standards, you want to rip us off, but it’s not okay if business does it.

We have offered other solutions, which you have ignored. You really only care about yourself. We’re trying to help others, without losing that which is rightfully ours. You don’t care whether or not we can do the things we like to do, but you insist you should have health care paid for so you can have money for the things you like to do.

As to seeing for yourself. All the people I see the situations can live with the way things are now. The way I see it, things are fine. The people I know may not like living without health care, but it isn’t hurting them. Actually it’s helping them because they are more careful about their health.

Would you define “real people”? I’m a real person and in my experience the United States health care system works. I have seen posts by people from Canada who claim it is bad there. They are real people. So who’s opinion counts? Only those who agree with your assessment? In that case you don’t really care about the truth.

I would be willing to consider helping the needy out through taxes if all other options were exhausted but they don’t want to try the other options, they just want to go for the easy stuff. It is sort of like asking a child to finnish their vegtables before they can have desert but the kid doesn’t want to eat the veggies so they throuw a temper tantrum and complain to relatives, friends, teachers, etc. that you are starving them and not letting them eat (as in eat what they want). Likewise we have spoiled welfare recipients who don’t want the socially healthy options they are providing them, they want the free desert.

 

[royal_archer]

By that definition we should get rid of emergency rooms. People can’t afford healthcare, problem they have festers till it gets bad, then they go to the emergency room where they don’t pay, now thats a ripoff. I’m not ripping you off because you put in and take out of the same pot too, if this goes through.

If everyone put into the pot equally it would not be a problem. The issue is that they are setting up the government run health care so that some have to pay while those who represent Obama’s voting baswe will not have to pay. It is blatant descrimination.

 

[royal_archer]

You experience it working maybee because your clientelle are well off. Or they have cases that are obvious enough for insurance to have no way out of paying. You have not offered solutions. you just complain about the ideas being proposed guarenteed not to work.

To be blunt here is a solution, get a job. Those who work hard and have jobs do not have a problem. Those who marry spouses who have a decent job do not have a problem. Those who serve their country do not have a problem. Those who take advantage of the opportunities of living in a Capitalist society and start a buisiness tend to not have a problem.

 

[royal_archer]

I’m responding to your general belief that government run social programs are bad. I’m speaking of a world in where there were no government social net, which you seem to want. Not what I actually experienced…

There is a place for a safety net, the problem is that too many people are using it as a hammock. Cas in point is unemployment insurance where you pay in and get back as needed but only for a short time. This system could be improved but it is much fairer than those systems which foster dependency.

Emigrating is incredibly difficult, as almost all countries agree not to take those with high debt, to keep down fraud. I’m going to have to file bankruptcy and then hope to move out between that ink drying and another catastrophic medical episode in hopes that I don’t wrack up more debt that prohibits me from leaving permanently…

So what if it is hard. My work is hard, everyone else has to work hard to get what we have. Why should we have to work hard to get something and you just get to take it with out making an effort? As much as you and others talk aoubt how green the grass is on the other side of the hill with socialist ecconomies, I don’t see an exodous. I think you realize that the bennefits of our society far outweigh the drawbacks.

Life is life, even when a slave. I don’t recall any bible verses calling for all slaves to commit suicide to be free.

I ddin’t say the bible said anysuch thing, nor did I advocate suicide. But many of us would willing to sacrifice our lives before allowing ourselves or our loved ones to fall victims of slavery. Do you think access to health care justifies slavery?

 

[royal_archer]

.

Then you really do want to remove every incentive to work.

military.com/Careers/Content1?file=careersArticlesMostSecureJobs.htm&area=Reference&ESRC=fasttrack.nl

Sin ce you are willing to work I thought you may enjoy this article on secure jobs.

 

[royal_archer]

interesting tidbit from edmunds .com on the value of the cash for clunkers program. foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570558,00.html?test=latestnews
and
autoobserver.com/2009/10/cash-for-clunkers-tab-24000-per-vehicle-of-taxpayer-cash.html

using the numbers provided of 3 billion dollars for 690000 vehicle that equates to 4347 per car. but the average rebate was 1667 per car which means that 2680 was wasted per car or about 62% if the government wasted 62% on something simple like cash for clunkers I wonder what the waste percent will be for heath care.

 

[aspawloski4th]

To be blunt here is a solution, get a job. Those who work hard and have jobs do not have a problem. Those who marry spouses who have a decent job do not have a problem. Those who serve their country do not have a problem. Those who take advantage of the opportunities of living in a Capitalist society and start a buisiness tend to not have a problem.

You must have been locked up in a barn sir! Have you looked around or had news on lately? We are in a recession and where I am, Michigan is in a depression. Getting a job just doesn’t happen automtically.

 

[aspawloski4th]

interesting tidbit from edmunds .com on the value of the cash for clunkers program. foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570558,00.html?test=latestnews
and
autoobserver.com/2009/10/cash-for-clunkers-tab-24000-per-vehicle-of-taxpayer-cash.html

using the numbers provided of 3 billion dollars for 690000 vehicle that equates to 4347 per car. but the average rebate was 1667 per car which means that 2680 was wasted per car or about 62% if the government wasted 62% on something simple like cash for clunkers I wonder what the waste percent will be for heath care.

Waste is waste. Why arent you whining and sniveling about the amount of money insurance comapnies waste of multi million dollar CEO salaries? Don’t tell me they earned it either. Anyone can deny isurance claims. Pay me half to do the same job and money will be saved and I will still be sinfully rich.

 

[royal_archer]

You must have been locked up in a barn sir! Have you looked around or had news on lately? We are in a recession and where I am, Michigan is in a depression. Getting a job just doesn’t happen automtically.

Your right it doesn’t just happen automatically you have to earn it. if you just sit around waiting for a job you won’t get one. You may also have to leave michigan with the way Obama has destroyed the ecconomy up there with the defense cuts and the Cash for clunker give away to foriegn auto makers.

 

[royal_archer]

Waste is waste. Why arent you whining and sniveling about the amount of money insurance comapnies waste of multi million dollar CEO salaries? Don’t tell me they earned it either. Anyone can deny isurance claims. Pay me half to do the same job and money will be saved and I will still be sinfully rich.

But yet the board of directors still won’t hire you, image that. you would think they would hire the people who would give them the best return on investment.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Your right it doesn’t just happen automatically you have to earn it. if you just sit around waiting for a job you won’t get one. You may also have to leave michigan with the way Obama has destroyed the ecconomy up there with the defense cuts and the Cash for clunker give away to foriegn auto makers.

Actually the econemy has been bad for quite a while here, beczause whether democrat or republic, both parties still want to base our state on 1950s economics, base it on GM and Steelcase… Iv’e put 20,000 miles on my car in a half year just searching for a job. Now everyone is doing bad , so leaving Michigan is a waste of time and effort.

 

[aspawloski4th]

But yet the board of directors still won’t hire you, image that. you would think they would hire the people who would give them the best return on investment.

That was a figurtive comparison. If I did what would get them the best return on their investemnt I’d be gaurenteeing my soul to Hell.