Changed my views on Homosexuality

[pocaracas]

pocaracas:

what’s wrong with granting those people equivalent rights to everyone else?

Because the situations are not equivalent.

Besides the obvious procreation part, which I’m dismissing, what are the non-equivalencies, exactly?

pocaracas:

Is the fact that these couples can’t procreate reason enough to deny them so many things that most other people end up taking for granted?

No, the reason is two men or two women are not equivalent to one man and one woman. Inheritances, power of attorney, etc can be granted without marriage.

Can be granted without marriage? Perhaps, but at what cost (not just monetary)? Is it the same signing of a paper before an official?

pocaracas:

Fine… off with their heads! Homos to the gas chambers!

Too far? Seems to be what some people would like to see…

Who are these phantom persecutors you refer to?

They’re around the interwebz.

 

[Fauken]

Is a doctor who has never had smallpox unable to diagnose and treat it?

 

[Vonsalza]

Sure. Experience matters.

 

[curious_cath]

How does a gay person become a straight person?

First of all, you must believe it is possible. If you reject this very idea, then you are probably in the core gay group whose members are genetically/ habitually stuck in their gay self-image and self-definition. Once you believe it is possible to shift away from a gay identity, you take the steps. You create a positive attitude in your mind toward becoming straight. If you have good friends of both sexes to support this gradual shift from one side to the other, you might succeed.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

First of all, you must believe it is possible. If you reject this very idea, then you are probably in the core gay group whose members are genetically/ habitually stuck in their gay self-image and self-definition. Once you believe it is possible to shift away from a gay identity, you take the steps. You create a positive attitude in your mind toward becoming straight. If you have good friends of both sexes to support this gradual shift from one side to the other, you might succeed.

I’m married to a woman and attracted to women. Why precisely do I need to stop being attracted to men? What purpose would it serve? (Mind you, I pray for temptation to go away, and I’d be glad to lose my same-sex attraction. I just don’t see it as at all necessary to a holy life. There is something called self-control.)

Also, do you have studies showing that this transition to being straight works? Can you show me those studies?

 

[theCardinalbird]

Proper condom use, 100%of the time, pretty much eliminates this problem for an individual.

Really? Emotional and psychological illnesses can be stopped by condoms? (I’m sure you agree they don’t prevent that) Also are you saying that Homosexual acts are now permissible because condoms are here to save them from the consequences of such harmful sexual acts? The body was not designed for these acts, especially with the ramifications that are physically, emotionally, psychologically, and even spiritually! I mean look at these studies on that site. I’m sure some of those studies are from reputable organizations. They explain the fruits of such acts, (and a condom doesn’t reduce the proof) that these acts are not beneficial for the health of human persons, which is the Church’s priority.

Health Risks of the Homosexual Lifestyle

This statement was made by Greg Quinlan, a former member of the homosexual community, who testified before the Ohio Defense of Marriage Act in Novembe...

www.catholiceducation.org

 

[katiecall87]

I would argue that procreation is deeply connected with the pleasure and intimacy derived in a loving sacramental marriage.

 

[Fauken]

Comparing airplane pilots to doctors is apples to oranges, as being a pilot requires experience using the machine that you’re operating, whereas a doctor is perfectly capable and competent to treat smallpox even though he or she has never had the disease.

 

[curious_cath]

Why precisely do I need to stop being attracted to men?

You don’t need to. It is your choice to try it or not. But if you don’t want it to happen then probably it will never happen. Simple as that.

 

[simonjosiah1]

The openess of life (children) are one of the fruits of marriage.

 

[ATraveller]

Precisely. I would like your post but I’m out of those for today.
Broadly, much of these types of ‘disputes’ stem from the use of flawed subjectivist and emotionalist approaches and goal post moving than actual objective rigorous approaches.

 

[rcwitness]

And how do you judge Jesus? How were His actions? Do you admire Him? Do you think He was a lier?

 

[QwertyGirl]

I am not even convinced he was real. I tend to believe he was a real person, with many exaggerated stories told about him. Exaggerated or real, there’s no denying he was an admirable person especially for the times. I think a lot of good lessons can be learned from reading about Jesus. I don’t judge Jesus.

 

[Guest1]

If you don’t mind me asking why do you tend to believe He was real?

 

[meltzerboy2]

And you would argue correctly, in my view. Mutual love, emotional and sexual intimacy, and procreation are all intertwined. But is it true, as another poster stated, that a paraplegic who cannot consummate the marital act is not permitted to marry according to Church teaching?

 

[QwertyGirl]

Well the stories passed down about him originated from something. When I say “real”, I mean a real person. Even if I believe he was a real person, I don’t belief he was God or divine. I would say he was just a remarkable person.

 

[guanophore]

How does the Church know that God didn’t create sexual activity for pure pleasure in addition to the other reasons the Church gives.

We know this from the teachings of God from the time He revealed Himself to mankind until the present day. He created human beings out of His love, and we are spiritual beings, created in His image and likeness. Our sexuality is a gift intended to serve the Creator, not for “pure pleasure” on a fleshly plane. The Church does teach that husband and wife will find unitive pleasure/experience in the marital embrace, but it is a wordly perspective that our sexuality is for “pure pleasure”.

Without itemizing body parts involved, etc.,… They are all designed so they can be used in exclusive ways, without incorporation of all of the ways.

Honestly, I am not sure what this means, but perhaps you are not familiar with the myriad of ways that human beings use/misuse their sexuality?

It meets the needs of everyone, regardless of where they are in life. The Church claims this view of human sexuality isn’t in accordance with Natural Law. How can it not be?

I am not sure what “it” might be that “meets the needs of everyone” but one must also be cognizant that the human perspective of “needs” is not often consistent with what is a genuine “need”. Many things thought to be "needs’ are actually “wants” instead.

 

[guanophore]

Sadly, people who are gay and those who are not but support such sins do not want to obey God but want God to bend to their own will by going on about how love can’t be wrong and if God is love and merciful he would support that. Such people are rejecting God (that is what a mortal sin means).

It is important to understand that same sex attraction is not considered a sin by the Church. I personally don’t appreciate the term “gay” because of so many erroneous connotations, but a person who suffers with same sex attraction can certainly submit their will to God, and obey His call to chastity. Such a person is not rejecting God.

It is also important to acknowledge that the Church needs to support persons who struggle in this way, just as we should support all who suffer with the temptation to sin, no matter what it is.

The struggles the Church is having responding to this trend illustrates further the risk it faces. On the one hand it has urged greater sympathy and respect and support for homosexuals. On the other it has completely banned people of confirmed homosexual orientation from the seminary.

Yes, it will continue to be a very contemporary pastoral issue. The Church has the freedom to choose, from among those called who will serve in the ministry. The priesthood is not a “cure” for same sex attraction, but this position could be changed.

This may be one issue that is ‘solved’ only by schism.

It is good to see that you placed “solved” in quotes, as nothing is “solved” by schism. And, those who reject the teaching of the Church on this matter would not be schismatics, but heretics and apostates.

I think the larger part of the Church in the west might depart, but in the third world the great majority would remain with tradition.

Yes, it certainly does seem to be the case that the West has been largely swayed by modernism, and will fall away by adhering to culture/society instead of the Apostolic faith. I think that Benedict the 16th was quite prophetic when he talked about there being a much smaller and more pure church.

In the west the more liberal, schismatic Church might attract more converts or reverts especially with liberalisation of other sexual teachings. Just speculation but what present as personal issues often have much greater significance.

I think you are right, though I would call it a Protestant Church.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings…

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

People who have these inclinations are called to abstinence not to completely rewiring their attractions to someone of a different gender.

 

[guanophore]

I agree. In the under-developed nations, Catholicism will remain under-developed.

How curious. It seems that you consider a departure from the Apostolic faith a reasonable “development”? How is clinging to what was handed down to us “under-developed”?

The local Catholic Church could end up like Antarctica—everybody knows where it is, but nobody goes there anymore.

There will always be a remnant who will cling to the One Faith that was delivered once for all to the Church.

The Church does not teach that homosexual individuals are disordered, any more than anyone else is disordered. The Church teaches that INCLINATIONS or ACTIONS are disordered, not people.

I think this is not accurate. The same sex attraction itself is considered a gravely disordered.