Changed my views on Homosexuality

[ConstantLearner]

Christ loved and accepted the woman caught in adultery – but He did not condone her continuing in that way of life. He said, “Go and sin no more.”

And I would doubt that he approves of non-married homosexual behavior, either. We weren’t talking about adultery or fornication.

 

[Arbovirus]

Stop calling their behavior “disordered” for one thing. Allowing them to marry for another. Stop abusing them on DBs for a third.

All actions against order and nature are by default “disordered”. If I want to eat pebbles, that would be a disorder. It doesn’t make me a bad person to have such desires. But giving in to them would be harmful.

The Church will never allow same-sex marriage — I think we both know that.

What’s “DBs”?

 

[Arbovirus]

And I would doubt that he approves of non-married homosexual behavior, either. We weren’t talking about adultery or fornication.

Christ talked about marriage — how one man and one woman become one. So Christ’s words are not in your favor.

 

[ConstantLearner]

What’s “DBs”?

Discussion Boards. Would you call a autistic child’s behavior “disordered?” I doubt it. A homosexual did not ask God to make him or her homosexual. To call his or her behavior “disordered” is just plain mean.

 

[Vonsalza]

Arbovirus:

What’s “DBs”?

Discussion Boards. Would you call a autistic child’s behavior “disordered?” I doubt it. A homosexual did not ask God to make him or her homosexual. To call his or her behavior “disordered” is just plain mean.

I see your point. I do.

But at the same time, you can’t say that something’s “ok” just because you were born with it - a la my brother’s schizophrenia.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Christ talked about marriage — how one man and one woman become one. So Christ’s words are not in your favor.

Two men can become “one flesh” as well.

Christ was a first century Jew, and first century Jews did have prohibitions against certain sexual acts, many of them heterosexual acts. Most people today do not follow those prohibitions, even Catholic couples. Do you consider them sinful and disordered?

 

[Arbovirus]

Would you call a autistic child’s behavior “disordered?”

Objectively, it would be abnormal behavior. But I would choose another word, or just not even mention it.

A homosexual did not ask God to make him or her homosexual.

OK.

To call his or her behavior “disordered” is just plain mean.

But that is objectively true. But we can use another word to mean the same thing. Irregular? Aberrant? Divergent? Anomalous?

 

[theCardinalbird]

I know we disagree, and that’s okay. I’ve never intended to change anyone’s viewpoint. I just wish people could be more loving and accepting, like Christ was.

Indeed the world needs to be more loving, though when we speak of accepting, we speak of the person. Also I’m same sex attracted (to provide you with some context) and do know both sides of the argument. That is why I believe that picking up one’s cross and following Jesus is a good thing. Life is not easy, but the way to eternal life was never easy.

So in conclusion, I can’t change your opinion, nor could you change mine. I just want people to understand that there is this way, (picking up one’s cross) to live a life of humility and love for ones neighbors (even love their souls), and to live by the will of God.

 

[Arbovirus]

Two men can become “one flesh” as well.

Christ was a first century Jew, and first century Jews did have prohibitions against certain sexual acts, many of them heterosexual acts. Most people today do not follow those prohibitions, even Catholic couples. Do you consider them sinful and disordered?

Uh…Christ was God Incarnate. He knew exactly what He was talking about. He sort of created the natural world (and angels!).

Absolutely heterosexuals can commit sinful and disordered acts. These are not gay-exclusive things.

 

[Arbovirus]

Two men can become “one flesh” as well.

Yes, and a square can become a triangle if I say so.

 

[Vonsalza]

Arbovirus:

Christ talked about marriage — how one man and one woman become one. So Christ’s words are not in your favor.

Two men can become “one flesh” as well.

Sure, in an act that is the imitation of sex. The orifices involved were not designed/evolved for that purpose.

Which lends a little bit of credibility to your opposition’s appeals to “nature” and “the natural”.

 

[ConstantLearner]

But at the same time, you can’t say that something’s “ok” just because you were born with it - a la my brother’s schizophrenia.

I’m certainly not going to condemn him for it, and I would never want to deny him necessary medication to make the quality of his life better. I would also never call his behavior “disordered.” That’s the way God made him for whatever reason God has. It’s no doubt a trial to him, but we all have trials, some heavier ones than others.

I’m not trying to argue with you or change your mind. I’m just presenting an alternate point of view. We’re all on a path back to God, even those who deny they are or don’t realize they are. It is rare to find two people who are at the same place on that path. I’m not saying my path is more enlightened or better than yours; it’s just different. We all have to express our authenticity: you, me, homosexuals, bisexuals, transgenders. I don’t think anyone should be excluded from that. However, I do believe in obeying laws that are made for the common good. No one should engage in rape or pedophilia or bestiality, for example. The victims, in those cases, did not consent or were too young to consent.

As I said, I’m not trying to change your opinion. You are who you are. I am who I am. I wish you love and peace.

 

[Vonsalza]

As I said, I’m not trying to change your opinion. You are who you are. I am who I am. I wish you love and peace.

I can dance to that.

I think they should be permitted to do as they wish in the name of personal freedom. But at the same time, I don’t think it’s “as good” as a heterosexual couple, all other things being equal (which almost never are).

Thanks for the chat.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Thanks for the chat.

Thank you, too. Thank you for being polite. I appreciate it.

 

[Elf01]

I would never want to deny him necessary medication to make the quality of his life better.

That may have happened at first with AIDS but has anybody actually supported that. Please provide quotes.

I would also never call his behavior “disordered.

It clearly is not how sex is supposed to be. Even as someone who cannot see why homosexual activity is immoral, I can certainly see that it is goes against how sex is designed.

 

[ConstantLearner]

I don’t know what you want me to supply quotes for. It was an opinion of mine, something I would never do. I do know John Travolta and Kelly Preston denied their late son, Jett medication for epilepsy, and he had a seizure and died. Scientologists don’t believe in psychiatric medications.

‘AVOIDABLE’ DEATH

The health problems of tragic teen Jett Travolta would not have been properly treated unless his celebrity Scientologist parents had rejected their religion’s theories on medicine, outraged e…

nypost.com

Yes, I can see the human body was designed for heterosexual relationships. I don’t think that makes homosexual ones immoral. If most people weren’t heterosexual, the human race might die out. I can see that. However, I don’t think being in the minority makes one immoral.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr is right to say that there is little evidence linking homosexual activity – as opposed to homosexual orientation – to mental illnesses. But there is plenty of evidence linking homosexual orientation to a variety of mental illnesses. This gives us at least two hypotheses:

(1) Homosexual orientation AND the mental illnesses gay people experience are both caused by a common root cause (perhaps a hormone imbalance in the womb). Note that this claim does not imply anything about morality, one way or the other, Thorolfr.

(2) The mental illnesses gay people experience are caused by cultural homophobia.

For all your denying it, Thorolfr, there is plenty of data that resists the second interpretation. “There is plenty of homophobia in the Netherlands” – sure, there is. But not as much as in other places. If you really think bullying and the like cause all these results, then you would expect a proportional difference that was pretty extreme between more and less “enlightened” places. That is not what you find, however.

Gay men everywhere and at all ages don’t only have higher rates of mental illness, but also higher rates of cardiovascular disease, cancer, asthma, allergies, etc. All of those things are more likely to be linked to stress than to a “hormone imbalance in the womb”.

And I’m not convinced that a gay person growing up in the Netherlands, for example, is going to have a completely different experience from a gay person growing up in a small, conservative, rural community in the US. A lot of the damage to gay people happens long before they even comes out and before a difference between countries in laws protecting their rights as adults even come into play.

Researchers are becoming increasingly aware that just being a member of a minority or marginalized group can cause what is called “minority stress.” Whether a person is the only woman at a business meeting or the only black person in a college dorm, it can cause a certain amount of stress. But for gay people, this stress is magnified in many ways, because it’s often hidden and happens when you’re 10 or 11 and is something that you might not feel that you can talk about with friends or family members or teachers. Most other minorities can rely on the support of their family and friends. Just for a child to feel that they’re different from most of the other children can create a sense of isolation that can be stressful. A stress researcher at Yale named John Pachankis says that the most damage happens in the five or six years between the time that someone realizes that they’re gay and when they start to tell other people about it. It’s quite a heavy burden to bear all of this in secret and at a young age and I doubt that it’s easier to bear in the Netherlands than what it is in more conservative places. Things are probably a little easier for gay youth now, but it’s still too soon to tell how much everything has changed.

 

[ATraveller]

If I were an Olympic gymnast I would be envious of the author. Homosexual sexual activity is not permitted. It’s incontrovertible.
The author seems to have forgotten Mt 22:37-39:

And he [Jesus] said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Not to mention the author appears not to consider Ro 1, 1 Cor 6 and 1 Tim 1 in any proper way.
The source is a non-Christian lobby group. Why on earth would any serious Christian consider that to be a source for sound doctrine?

 

[ConstantLearner]

And he [Jesus] said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Even if those neighbors are a homosexual couple. Jesus did not say, “except homosexuals.” He excluded no one.

 

[Thorolfr]

But it is not a choice. The problem with the idea that if it’s not a choice, then you should be free to commit the act, is essentially saying we have no faults that we should be liable for. Yet we know that Adam and Eve sinned and made us into sinful beings with all sorts of problems.

In the womb things can go wrong, and to say that people with Autism and other “tortured souls” were born that way by God solely, means that he wanted that child to suffer. If that were so then what does one say about that? That there is no wrong pregnancy? That things can’t go wrong? I’m sure you realize there can be problems in a pregnancy that causes these things and that God is not a cruel God.

If someone was born same sex attracted, it does not mean that God wanted him or her to be like that. Adam and Eve allowed sin into this world, and in consequence, we have disordered desires that are disordered by sin, but is not active sinning unless acted on

I still don’t know how God could allow an innocent child to be born with a predisposition to homosexuality if He considers the inclination that might arise from that to be disordered. If I thought that that were the case, I would indeed think God is rather cruel. How can He punish someone for something He made possible.