Annunciata said:(Oh BTW, I do have a ‘prayer tongue’, that is, a private expression in my prayers that is between myself and God) I believe to speak it aloud in a group does need interpretation unless all are praising in song, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I think it is also valid to use your “prayer tongue” in a prayer group aloud without interpretation if it is during a time when all are praising God in English ( the vernacular) and/or “prayer tongues” together, as a expression of praise rising and directed to God. It’s still prayer whether it’s sung or not. If spoken during a time of listening and prophecy and “words from the Lord” it then needs interpretation from the speaker or someone with the gift of interpretation of tongues (IMHO) :yup:.Oh BTW, I do have a ‘prayer tongue’, that is, a private expression in my prayers that is between myself and God) I believe to speak it aloud in a group does need interpretation unless all are praising in song, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong.
what bible do you read. the books of corinthians were written specifically dealing with issues of a “charismatic” type. paul didn’t condemn the practice of spiritual gifts, he encouraged it but with stipulations. to say there was no “charismaticism” in the early church is to not know the early church. all throughout history there have been charismatic movements. they come, inspire people to a deeper faith, and then move on until (usually about 100-200 years) the next movement takes place. and to say it’s an import from protestantism is false. protestants took it from the early church which (according to the catholic church) was catholic. i do not personally experience these gifts but i have seen the good and bad of them (the bad usually takes place when some one is not genuinely experiencing the gifts and is using them for personal gain). to say it is wrong is to say that peter’s first speech was wrong (he spoke in tongues
!).
Well, we are all welcome to our opinions. If Fr. Hardon was the only one who had anything to say on this subject, I would be more inclined to simply take him at his word (without needing so much in the form of evidence). However, I know quite a number of priests including my own pastor who hold opinions that are just the opposite of Fr. Hardon in this matter. I do respect Fr. Hardon, and so it is that I respectfully disagree with him in this case, if he did indeed have such words to say about speaking in tongues.
Praying in tongues, as I experience it, is a gift in the same sense that speaking, itself, is a gift. My mouth moves, my tongue moves, air flows from my lungs, passes my vocal cords and sound is produced, all under my control. In vocal conceptual prayer, my thoughts are expressed by rational sounds. My mind, you can say, prays accompanied by speech. It is a prayer because I intend it for God. God knows by this act that I intend communication and communion with Him. In “praying in tongues,” my mind is at rest, so to speak; yet I can still pray with my speech. This time my speech is non-conceptual, but, by my intention, it is still directed to God. God knows this, too, because He knows my heart’s intent. It is my intention that directs it to God and makes it a pray.
We try hard to love them as Jesus would have us do!
Misericordie,
It’s good to hear from a kindred spirit. However, even if there weren’t one, I would be grateful.Joanna, thanks for your eloquent and very accurate explanation of personal prayer in tongues. I too experience what you have described. It can be very powerful. God is so awesome to allow us yet another way to praise Him!
In my Charismatic community, we do pray as you have described in groups, for short periods of time as the Spirit moves us, during our prayer meetings. No interpretation is needed for that because the tongues are NOT directed at the whole community as a prophetic word in tongues would be. It sounds to an outsider (which I used to be) like tuneful humming, quite pretty actually, but not intelligible. It’s not intended to be intelligible, it’s between the prayer and God Himself.
When such a word is spoken in tongues to the whole community, an interpretation has ALWAYS followed, in my admittedly limited experience. This gift is rare, probably the least used of all the Charismatic gifts with our community.Our Community has a particular calling to praise, especially in music, and to teaching gifts. Each community is different. And like all human endeavors, even those with God at the helm, we have some weirdos in our community.
I’d urge all readers to recognize that this is a valid and approved lay apostolate, and that we recognize completely that the charismatic way is NOT for all Catholics, nor do we try to convert people to it. Just because it may not be for you does not mean it’s wrong. The Cistercian third order lay movement, for a random example, is not for me personally but I certainly recognize their powerful gifts and presence in our Church and rejoice that they exist at all.
Mine too. Our idea of raucous music is something like Belfast Revisted, a great CD by the way. Our favorites tend to be old classics like Salve Regina, or Tantum Ergo, or songs like the extremely worshipful “Be Exalted, Oh God.” We meet in a gym so there’s no organ there.
Our music ministry has a piano, four classical guitarists, a flute, a trumpet, several talented singers, and sometimes a harpist, when she is in town. 
Hehe. . . there aren’t too many explicitly charismatic parishes in Ann Arbor, so you have guessed correctly.
Sounds like I left Ann Arbor too soon. :crying: I used to attend St. Francis and St. Elizabeth’s and St. John’s in Ypsi. The prayer meeting met at St. Francis.
As per me, my family and MANY of my friends, I will continue to stay away from the entertainment "masses" and I will ONLY attend the ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS. OUTSIDE OF MASS I COULD DANCE TO THE "spirit", again, only OUTSIDE of Mass::dancing: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: . IN THE MASS, I will do what it is for, PRAYER::tiphat: :bowdown: The Church needs no spiritual advice which BEGAN in the pentecostal church. It does not need to get ideas on how to pray and worship from pentecostals:rolleyes: .
You are correct that truth is not relative, just like the phrase “Roman Catholic” is not relative. These nuttier (an admittedly relative term) Masses are (usually) sanctioned by the Bishop and under the authority of the Church and therefore are “Roman Catholic”. I do not care to attend these types of shennanigans (another very relative term), but may God bless them, for they are my brothers and sisters in the one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
CCC #2089 “. . .schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”Some still don’t get it: truth is not relativism.
As per me, my family and MANY of my friends, I will continue to stay away from the entertainment “masses” and I will ONLY attend the ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS. OUTSIDE OF MASS I COULD DANCE TO THE “spirit”, again, only OUTSIDE of Mass::dancing: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: . IN THE MASS, I will do what it is for, PRAYER::tiphat: :bowdown: The Church needs no spiritual advice which BEGAN in the pentecostal church. It does not need to get ideas on how to pray and worship from pentecostals.
I admit that I have no idea what you are referring to here??
On what basis, factual please, do you classify ALL Charismatics Masses as “entertainment” Masses? We have posted repeatedly that Charismatic Masses may sometimes have different music, but the form of the Mass is the same, and since they operate with Rome’s approval, they are valid Masses.