Chicago 'womanpriest' will not be buried in Catholic cemetery

[Oneofthewomen]

I, at one time, believed that the church was wrong in it’s stance on the ordination of women. My views on this have drastically changed over the past year.
That said, I believe that the Diocese of Chicago made the right decision.
This woman, not matter how good her intentions may have been,
defied Church law, was illeagally and illicitly “ordained”, therefore she ex-communicated ***HERSELF! *** The Church ***DID NOT ***do this to her!

I guess my biggest question is why did she even expect that her parish church would even be able to do this, and if she did not believe the teachings of the Church, why would she want them to bury her?

 

[Pilgrimage]

Here is what the Church tells us:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

Ed

Where does Scripture say that God’s Holy Spirit is a different Spirit working in men and women?

In fact it’s Peter who stands up at Pentecost and ‘publically’ announces that God calls women to be His servants too.

God’s voice through Scripture and His Holy Spirit is what teaches the churches, no one should lose sight of that.

God bless,

 

[Pilgrimage]

There was no suggestion but a solemn statement made by Pope John Paul II. The Church has no authority to ordain women. Period.

God bless,
Ed

Why does the Pope call himself a scandal, do you know?

God bless

 

[Aquinas62]

Why does the Pope call himself a scandal, do you know?

God bless

what does that have to do with the “Ordination” of women?

If I wear a Pittsburgh Steelers jersey, and say I play for the Steelers, does that make me a Steeler? NO it does not. Because of my gender, I cannot be a mother, nor do I want to be. this is the natural order of things. People have answered your objections on this thread, you just refuse to accept the answers.

 

[estesbob]

But, she is a Catholic. How many people were kicked out of the crowd standing at the foot of the cross?

I asked you to tell me how a woman seeking ordination is a sin please?

God choses people to be vessels of His Holy Spirit. He chose Mary, and she was very much a woman. Given that she was chosen to physically carry the living ‘Word’ into adulthood, nurture Him and be near Him in His death, how is a woman seeking ordination a sin? If God entrusted a mere woman, then why aren’t men doing the same?

Being a woman can’t be a sin in itself, and there is no question that it is One and the same Holy Spirit that enters the lives of men and women alike; so, as long as any woman is leading a holy life, loves Christ has other qualities normally identified for priesthood, and God has called her for this purpose, then the problem is with the system that’s trying to stop her (for whatever male orientated reasons)

It’s counter productive for the church to have a body of people who are working independently from the rest of it, yet for it, as they have no authority over the proceedings.

God bless

I would be excommunicated if my wife ordained me and I caimed to be a Catholic Priest. unlike many denominationms the Catholic Church doesnt make things up as they go along.

 

[estesbob]

You are also wrong that it is not my business, the Catholic Church made itself my business after I spent every Wednesday morning for four years persuading a sick woman to go back to her church because she needed to, only to be told that she can never take communion with me.

God bless

So Curch doctrine is now determined based on how you “feel” about things based on your “personal” experience?

 

[LittleSoldier]

I, at one time, believed that the church was wrong in it’s stance on the ordination of women. My views on this have drastically changed over the past year.
That said, I believe that the Diocese of Chicago made the right decision.
This woman, not matter how good her intentions may have been,
defied Church law, was illeagally and illicitly “ordained”, therefore she ex-communicated ***HERSELF! *** The Church ***DID NOT ***do this to her!

I guess my biggest question is why did she even expect that her parish church would even be able to do this, and if she did not believe the teachings of the Church, why would she want them to bury her?

I agree. Great post!

 

[LittleSoldier]

But, she is a Catholic. How many people were kicked out of the crowd standing at the foot of the cross?

I asked you to tell me how a woman seeking ordination is a sin please?

God choses people to be vessels of His Holy Spirit. He chose Mary, and she was very much a woman. Given that she was chosen to physically carry the living ‘Word’ into adulthood, nurture Him and be near Him in His death, how is a woman seeking ordination a sin? If God entrusted a mere woman, then why aren’t men doing the same?

Being a woman can’t be a sin in itself, and there is no question that it is One and the same Holy Spirit that enters the lives of men and women alike; so, as long as any woman is leading a holy life, loves Christ has other qualities normally identified for priesthood, and God has called her for this purpose, then the problem is with the system that’s trying to stop her (for whatever male orientated reasons)

It’s counter productive for the church to have a body of people who are working independently from the rest of it, yet for it, as they have no authority over the proceedings.

God bless

God does not call women to become Catholic priests.

 

[estesbob]

God does not call women to become Catholic priests.

And he calls very few men to be Catholic priests. In this situation the gender is irelevant. Anyone who recieves a sham ordination and claims to be a Catholic Priest is going to be excomunicated for mocking the preisthood and rejecting Church teachings.

 

[elts1956]

Every time a woman is called by God to priesthood and refused ordination, the church is assigning the Holy Spirit a gender.

My point is, that God’s Holy Spirit uses people for the purpose of His service. The sex of the vessel is unimportant, its purity is. As The Holy Spirit works within both men and women, it’s ridiculous to suggest that a woman can’t be ordained, and therefore any rules of men that follow are a nonsense and a folly to himself.

God bless

I think you missed a point. Tradition has always held Catholic Priests to be male. Through the binding of this, Pope John Paul II said, “In no way can a female be ordained a priest”. Paraphrased. If the fact of this person being a woman did not determine whether she could be a Catholic priest, or not, the statement she was a lesbian in a contradicition with the teachings of the Church should be enough to oustracize her.

 

[elts1956]

Every time a woman is called by God to priesthood and refused ordination, the church is assigning the Holy Spirit a gender.

My point is, that God’s Holy Spirit uses people for the purpose of His service. The sex of the vessel is unimportant, its purity is. As The Holy Spirit works within both men and women, it’s ridiculous to suggest that a woman can’t be ordained, and therefore any rules of men that follow are a nonsense and a folly to himself.

God bless

Where does Scripture say that God’s Holy Spirit is a different Spirit working in men and women?

In fact it’s Peter who stands up at Pentecost and ‘publically’ announces that God calls women to be His servants too.

God’s voice through Scripture and His Holy Spirit is what teaches the churches, no one should lose sight of that.

God bless,

When you became Catholic you not only accepted Her dogmas, but also Her Traditions and the teachings of the Early Church Fathers. These are a whole teaching, not to be separated, nor divided. There have been no stories in the bible of women being called to the priesthood either.

 

[elts1956]

Okay question. One of the posters said this faux priest’s former parishioners, pastor? priests would attend her funeral. Is this an action of scandal? Also the funeral is in a Protestant Church. Someone please tell me the propriety of these two issues. Rules for some Catholics and not for others? Or is this just Chicagoeze in practice?

 

[catharina]

When you became Catholic you not only accepted Her dogmas, but also Her Traditions and the teachings of the Early Church Fathers. These are a whole teaching, not to be separated, nor divided. There have been no stories in the bible of women being called to the priesthood either.

I think pilgrimage is Church of England, not Catholic.

 

[catharina]

Okay question. One of the posters said this faux priest’s former parishioners, pastor? priests would attend her funeral. Is this an action of scandal? Also the funeral is in a Protestant Church. Someone please tell me the propriety of these two issues. Rules for some Catholics and not for others? Or is this just Chicagoeze in practice?

Please don’t knock Chicago.
Cardinal George carries a terrible burden.

 

[fkjuliano]

I don’t agree with the ordination of ‘practicing’ homosexuals as God provides a way to serve Him without bringing such desires into His service. Any being who takes a vow of celibacy becomes simply a sexless vessel to do God’s work. Sexual differences aren’t defined by God’s Holy Spirit as it is no longer an issue.

You are also wrong that it is not my business, the Catholic Church made itself my business after I spent every Wednesday morning for four years persuading a sick woman to go back to her church because she needed to, only to be told that she can never take communion with me.

Jesus was in communion with all of the disciples, they ALL sat at His table and shared His meal together. He called both Peter and the disciple He loved to follow Him almost within the same breath too.

God bless

Since you do not believe that the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and that the Pope is the rightful Successor of Peter, possessed of the charism of infallibility, then you really have no reason to care about what doctrines she espouses, regardless of how you have spent your Wednesday mornings. If, on the other hand, you did believe those premises, then it would be absurd to question her doctrines.

Incidentally, I am not sure I understand what you meant by “[spending] every Wednesday morning… persuading a sick woman”. I presume that you would like to take communion in a Catholic Church along with your friend. While I respect your desire for fellowship, Catholic communion is only for those believe the Eucharist is the Body of Christ. This must be so because Holy Scripture commands it:

1. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
2. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
3. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

1 Corinthians XI

Knowing that, I trust you will no longer expect the Catholic Church to change her sacred doctrines just to suit your wishes.

Also, you keep repeating something along the lines of the Holy Spirit touching women who wish to be priests. Let me make it as clear as I can: we Catholics do not believe such women have been touched by the Holy Spirit. Any individual who holds a mock ordination and illegitimately proclaims him or herself to be a Catholic priest has not been touched by the Holy Spirit, but by their own pride, or else by an unholy spirit. On the other hand, we are absolutely confident that Pope John Paul II was indeed guided by the Holy Spirit, and he said the Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests.

Finally, please remember that the Catholic Church has never bent to the will of any earthly individual, not of the Roman emperors, not of Frederick Barbarossa, not of Henry VIII, not of Napoleon, not of Hitler, nor shall she ever do so. If you think you will succeed where they failed, you are indeed on a futile quest.

 

[elts1956]

I think pilgrimage is Church of England, not Catholic.

Thanks. I realized that after I looked at his/her profile.

 

[LittleSoldier]

And he calls very few men to be Catholic priests. In this situation the gender is irelevant. Anyone who recieves a sham ordination and claims to be a Catholic Priest is going to be excomunicated for mocking the preisthood and rejecting Church teachings.

Yes. Thank you for the clarification.

I just want to say that years ago one of the reasons I left the Church (I was baptized as an infant) was because women could not become priests and I believed the reason was that the Church taught that women were inferior.

Of course I was wrong, as the most honored person in history, with the exception of Jesus (who is God incarnate) is Mary, the Mother of Jesus and Queen of Heaven.

Pilgramage, women are called to be servants of God. Their role is different, but that does not mean they are thought of as inferior or treated as inferior.

We are supposed to do what God asks us to do, not what we decide to do while willfully ignoring His calling.

BTW I am still confused as to what you mean by the Church making “itself” your business and this Wednesday morning thing. Could you please be more specific?

 

[estesbob]

Yes. Thank you for the clarification.

I just want to say that years ago one of the reasons I left the Church (I was baptized as an infant) was because women could not become priests and I believed the reason was that the Church taught that women were inferior.

Of course I was wrong, as the most honored person in history, with the exception of Jesus (who is God incarnate) is Mary, the Mother of Jesus and Queen of Heaven.

Women are called to be servants of God. Their role is different, but that does not mean they are thought of as inferior or treated as inferior.

We are supposed to do what God asks us to do, not what we decide to do while willfully ignoring His calling.

Agreed My Aunt was a Sister of Charity for 60 years. The idea that she was somehow “denied” the right to fully serve the Lord because she wasnt allowed to become a Priest always rankles me. The idea that a Priests’ service is somehow superior to hers also rankles me. God call us in different ways-we are all to serve him in the way he calls us and NO service to the Lord is superior to another.

 

[Pilgrimage]

what does that have to do with the “Ordination” of women?

Because of my gender, I cannot be a mother, nor do I want to be. this is the natural order of things. People have answered your objections on this thread, you just refuse to accept the answers.

You can’t be a mother if you physically can’t because you have no womb, but you are capable of caring for a new born baby and loving it in the same way a mother does.

The Pope considers himself to be a scandal because people quite wrongly turn to him for the Word of God as if he were Christ. Otherwise, they consider him to be infallible when they shouldn’t. He knows that and hence he is a scandal. He is loved very much, and so he should be, but can you imagine what it’s like to have a whole body of people hanging on every word that you say when it’s not Scripture? They end up turning every word that you do say into a scripture for their daily life !

It is from the Pope that you have learned the nonsense that women can’t be priests isn’t it, because it’s not from God ?

God bless

 

[Pilgrimage]

So Curch doctrine is now determined based on how you “feel” about things based on your “personal” experience?

The church is formed on the teachings of Christ, who is The Lord of His suffering children. He left the church behind so that they may take fellowship with one another in love to ‘Him’ and each other. This love is born out of the sacrifice of His life for us. His love and sacrifice is what has sustained and fed me through the years of hearing this lady’s sufferings and finally helping her to be reconciled with her church.

I know for a ‘FACT’ that Jesus would not have excluded me from His table. He ate with all His disciples, He ate with sinners, He ate at celebrations with strangers and so forth. He even healed the child of a woman prepared to eat from the floor under His table.

He also does not want people to be bumbling blindly following obscure rules and regulations without considering what they are doing and whether it is of God.

If Jesus is in charge of your church, then you should be asking His guidance first and foremost. A woman is no less able to love Christ than a man, a woman is no less able to look after a flock than a man, a woman is no less able to live a pure life than a man, a woman is no less able to put aside herself for the sake of The Kingdom of God. It is only men who are seeing her with different eyes to God.

If a child of the Catholic flock is not being looked after, then the shepherd has not heard the teachings of Christ, because the shepherd will move heaven and earth to ensure she is fetched back into the fold. I didn’t witness many shepherds looking for this woman, she was bleating (suffering and crying out) loudly enough poor thing.

God bless