Chief Rabbinate of Israel break ties to Vatican

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RyanML said:
St. Paul said that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. The Jewish authorities at the time may have given the Romans an excuse to crucify Our Lord, but they are no more responsible for his Passion than you or me.
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My friend, who ever told you that it was specificly neccesary for Our Lord to have died on th Cross? He could have well died in battle and have satisifed the wishes of the Father.
But even so, do you still think that it is right to kill God?
Are you going to say the Romans did it? That is like saying the sword is culpable when I am the one wielding it.
Anti-semetism is that crazed bishop. Anti-semitism is a redneck, no class thing.

Hate, yes hate (if you don’t hate evil you don’t love Good) against the enemies of the Church, in all their shapes and forms is the only way to mantain you love of the Church pure, because giving in a little is going a long way from God. The jews have nothing to do with salvation anymore than killing lambs will applease God.
The chosen people rejected Him and even killed Him, and whats worst, they cursed theirselves and their children when they said they want His blood upon them and their children.

And Our Lord pronounced the malediction against them as well, not only Jerusalem the city, but them as well.

From Matthew 23:
34 Therefore behold I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify: and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city. 35 That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. . 36 Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. 37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldst not? 38 Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. 39 For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

And yes, I am responsable for the Passion in manner of neccesity, but I am not in the execution of it.
That sort of retoric you try is like saying Judas in the end was a good man since he did his part in making salvation possible.
No, nope, uhuh.

I pray for their conversion as is my duty, but you will not make me bend over to them to please them. I will protect them if they are being unjustly persecuted, but they would be still enemies of the Church under the same roof. The same with anyother religion.

Or you are Catholic or you are not.

Ut inimicos sanctae Ecclésiae humiliáre dignéris,

Te rogamus audi nos!
 
Pro_Domina said:
My friend, who ever told you that it was specificly neccesary for Our Lord to have died on th Cross? He could have well died in battle and have satisifed the wishes of the Father.
But even so, do you still think that it is right to kill God?
Are you going to say the Romans did it? That is like saying the sword is culpable when I am the one wielding it.
Anti-semetism is that crazed bishop. Anti-semitism is a redneck, no class thing.

Hate, yes hate (if you don’t hate evil you don’t love Good) against the enemies of the Church, in all their shapes and forms is the only way to mantain you love of the Church pure, because giving in a little is going a long way from God. The jews have nothing to do with salvation anymore than killing lambs will applease God.
The chosen people rejected Him and even killed Him, and whats worst, they cursed theirselves and their children when they said they want His blood upon them and their children.

And Our Lord pronounced the malediction against them as well, not only Jerusalem the city, but them as well.

From Matthew 23:
34 Therefore behold I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify: and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city. 35 That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. . 36 Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. 37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldst not? 38 Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. 39 For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

And yes, I am responsable for the Passion in manner of neccesity, but I am not in the execution of it.
That sort of retoric you try is like saying Judas in the end was a good man since he did his part in making salvation possible.
No, nope, uhuh.

I pray for their conversion as is my duty, but you will not make me bend over to them to please them. I will protect them if they are being unjustly persecuted, but they would be still enemies of the Church under the same roof. The same with anyother religion.

Or you are Catholic or you are not.

Ut inimicos sanctae Ecclésiae humiliáre dignéris,

Te rogamus audi nos!
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On January 25, 1959 a truly good man began a process that is now being destroyed exactly fifty years later. I have no doubt that what influenced him was not only his own morality as a human being but also his witnessing the horrible outcome that the kinds of ideas expressed by Pro Domina had caused. The question is which represents the morality of Catholics today?
 
For all eternity no, the chosen people are to convert in the end times. But to think that God is a hippie who simply lets everything go like nothing, esspecially killing Him, is absolutely incompatable with Church doctrine. Every sin unrepented will have its pay, and not only in eternity.
As well, remember that nations and peoples cannot be judged, rewarded or punished in eternity, therefore must receive it in time.
Mercy and justice are the same coin of two sides. God demonstrates His greatness more in mercy, but does not exclude justice.

The Holocaust is no excuse to let them be unaccountable for their errors. Anyhow, you see how they run the world because the Church is the only one who always ends up being hit.

The victims of communism greatly outnumber.

I also wonder if that theory that the Holocaust was promoted among the hawks to scare the doves into hardcore zionism has any veracity. Only time will tell.
 
Obviously! My Jewish neighbor down the street is no more culpable for the execution of Our Lord than my Baptist friend is for the Protestant Reformation. This is the understanding of the Church and this is why today she no longer uses such phrases as “perfidious Jews” or terms like “heretic” and “schismatic” (okay, except maybe in the case of traditionalists 😛 ) There are Catholics who can be over zealous in there triumphalist attitudes and it does a disservice to Christ and to His Mystical Body, the Church. God bless!
 
In spite of the very serious differences between us, I hope that Catholics and Jews will realise that they have a lot to gain by working together on projects of mutual interest.
 
Pro_Domina said:
For all eternity no, the chosen people are to convert in the end times. But to think that God is a hippie who simply lets everything go like nothing, esspecially killing Him, is absolutely incompatable with Church doctrine. Every sin unrepented will have its pay, and not only in eternity.
As well, remember that nations and peoples cannot be judged, rewarded or punished in eternity, therefore must receive it in time.
Mercy and justice are the same coin of two sides. God demonstrates His greatness more in mercy, but does not exclude justice.

The Holocaust is no excuse to let them be unaccountable for their errors. Anyhow, you see how they run the world because the Church is the only one who always ends up being hit.

The victims of communism greatly outnumber.

I also wonder if that theory that the Holocaust was promoted among the hawks to scare the doves into hardcore zionism has any veracity. Only time will tell.
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Ok I get that the Jews are guilty of deicide, that you think Lenin and Stalin were Jews and that the Holocaust is a Zionist plot. However could you please elaborate about how the Jews run the world?
 
  • quia mercatores tui erant principes terræ, quia in veneficiis tuis erraverunt omnes gentes*
Blessed Palau in his book, the Hermit, clearly denounces the control of the judeo-masonry. And he even says that it reaches the highest of the prelates…

But that there is already a group fighting, but like both sides, secretly.
 
Good on the ol pope for making up with the trad Fabs I say… now it is time that they apologised 1000 times for all the offences/ lies/ half truths they spread about the ‘consular’ church during there rebellion.

I was in the thick of the rebellion and I have had to spend the last 10 years apologising for that extremely ugly sin of pride I carried.

Pax Bonum

Brendan
 
I don’t think the Jews control the world and I hope they stop trying to control my church

I doubt they would like to be treated in kind
 
redrosetea said:
I don’t think the Jews control the world and I hope they stop trying to control my church

I doubt they would like to be treated in kind
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A very conservative German born pope wishes to gain supporters for his views by reaching out to even more conservative groups of Catholics who left the Church as a result of the reforms of Vatican II. The price being paid is the retraction of all those reforms in the Catholic Church from Vatican II concerning the Jews. The basis for those reforms was moral. The people who opposed the Vatican II reforms concerning the Jews are the same people who attribute deicide to the Jews, believe the Jews are cursed for rejecting “god” and deny the Holocaust. It is the problem of good and moral Catholics, not of the Jews, to be raising their voice in protest.
 
I respect the pope and his decisions…I could care less about those Rabbis…I am sick of them deciding how my church deals with internal mattters
 
I suspect there are Rabbis with political views I do not share…Is it my business…NO
 
This thread is getting off topic, anyhow…

What are the historical facts? I was under the impression that 6 million Jews were killed in concentration camps and many in gas chambers. If this is true, as Williamson denies, then he really is a raving lunatic, much like Amidinijad, and he should be stripped of his authority as a shepherd who guides a flock.

If what he says is true and there is no historical evidence that Jews were gassed then he has a right to say that and not be punished.

I’m afraid it really comes down to the truth. No one in a leadership position in the church should be spewing out lies. It just makes the Catholic church look rediculous.

I have to throw in with Jim on this one people. Unless we are all wrong and 6 million Jews were not exterminated, then this the Pope needs to apologize to the Jews for his oversight in appearing to sanction a Bishop who really has no business being a Bishop.

The Pope in this instance, I think, should be more concerned with the truth, and less with taking sides. The Church will always look stupid if it does not concern itself with the truth.

Or is that too much to ask?
 
I don’t try to be a shepherd when I am a sheep

The pope knows what he is doing
 
Lisa44 said:
This thread is getting off topic, anyhow…

What are the historical facts? I was under the impression that 6 million Jews were killed in concentration camps and many in gas chambers. If this is true, as Williamson denies, then he really is a raving lunatic, much like Amidinijad, and he should be stripped of his authority as a shepherd who guides a flock.

If what he says is true and there is no historical evidence that Jews were gassed then he has a right to say that and not be punished.

I’m afraid it really comes down to the truth. No one in a leadership position in the church should be spewing out lies. It just makes the Catholic church look rediculous.

I have to throw in with Jim on this one people. Unless we are all wrong and 6 million Jews were not exterminated, then this the Pope needs to apologize to the Jews for his oversight in appearing to sanction a Bishop who really has no business being a Bishop.

The Pope in this instance, I think, should be more concerned with the truth, and less with taking sides. The Church will always look stupid if it does not concern itself with the truth.

Or is that too much to ask?
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I think the Holy Father knows what he is doing, and Bishop Williamson doesn’t deserve to be “stripped of his authority”. Since his views concerning the Holocaust are extremely controversial and mostly, if not completely, untrue then he should be ordered to keep his opinions to himself and for his part, be obedient. Bishop Fellay has already told him to keep his mouth shut and when full regularization happens, I imagine Rome will expect just as much.
 
The pope has managed to give legitimacy to the views of the SSPX with their classic Catholic anti-semitism against the Jews (deicide, the Jew as cursed and rejecting “god”, the Jew as undermining Christianity '[Jewish naturalism"], given legitimacy to Holocaust denial and set back Vatican II reforms toward Jews as well as Catholic-Jewish dialog fifty years. Quite an accomplishment, especially at a time when anti-semitism is reaching levels unprecendented since the 1930’s. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
 
chosen_people said:
The pope has managed to give legitimacy to the views of the SSPX with their classic Catholic anti-semitism against the Jews (deicide, the Jew as cursed and rejecting “god”, the Jew as undermining Christianity '[Jewish naturalism"], given legitimacy to Holocaust denial and set back Vatican II reforms toward Jews as well as Catholic-Jewish dialog fifty years. Quite an accomplishment, especially at a time when anti-semitism is reaching levels unprecendented since the 1930’s. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
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If anything is likely to create antisemitism, it’s the constant browbeating of the Church and the endless stream of complaints and demands from perpetually outraged Jews.
 
chosen_people said:
The pope has managed to give legitimacy to the views of the SSPX with their classic Catholic anti-semitism against the Jews (deicide, the Jew as cursed and rejecting “god”, the Jew as undermining Christianity '[Jewish naturalism"], given legitimacy to Holocaust denial and set back Vatican II reforms toward Jews as well as Catholic-Jewish dialog fifty years. Quite an accomplishment, especially at a time when anti-semitism is reaching levels unprecendented since the 1930’s. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
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Bull…He never said he agreed with it…Why don’t you try to clean up the problems in your own church?
 
redrosetea said:
I stand corrected …synagogue
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Thanks to recent developments you don’t have to just say synagogue, you can say synagogue of satan.

Here’s a little something from sspx.org:

" International Judaism wants to radically defeat Christianity and to be its substitute. Its chief armies are the masons and the communists. This process of the Revolution began at the end of the Middle Ages, developed itself by pagan Renaissance, jumped forwards by leaps and bounds with the Reformation, destroyed the political and social basis of the Church by the French Revolution, tried to overthrow the Holy See with by an attack on the Papal States, emptied the Church’s resources on the occasion of the secularization of the goods of religious (orders -Ed’s) and dioceses, was the cause of a very grave internal crisis with the advance of Modernism, and finally, with communism, it invented the decisive instrument to delete the name of Christian from the very face of the earth."

sspx.org/MISCELLANEOUS/whatvaticanIIshouldhavedone.htm
 
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