Chinese Bishops asked to step aside

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The Chinese authorities are still what they have always been…atheistic Communists who mandate abortions.

That’s not bias or prejudice. It’s reality.
 
You may be right now but who knows what the future holds. I have faith in God.
I always try to remember what the Roman Empire was like before Constantine. Who would have predicted the whole Europe would become Christian?
 
“Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, praised the Communist state as “extraordinary”, saying: “You do not have shantytowns, you do not have drugs, young people do not take drugs”. Instead, there is a “positive national conscience”.”
That is better than in the USA where the homeless problem has been getting worse in recent years and where the number of gun related deaths is about 30,000 per year. American children are being shot dead as they attend school.
Illegal drug use is common in many areas such as Hollywood. Even some American politicians have admitted using illegal drugs.
 
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Those forced abortions and restrictions on religion really make China a place with a “positive national conscience.”
 
KMG said:
Those forced abortions and restrictions on religion really make China a place with a “positive national conscience.”
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The abortion rate in China has been quite high. Does the Patriotic Chinese Catholic Church teach that abortion and contraception are acceptable practices?
BTW, there are many American Catholics who accept the legalization of abortion at least according to the polls.
 
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The PCC isn’t allowed to talk about such things by government order.
 
KMG said:
The PCC isn’t allowed to talk about such things by government order.
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So the PCC doesn’t officially approve of abortion or contraception but is silent about it? Now in the USA, do you find that there are many sermons against the use of artificial birth control, or are there some priests who do not preach on it?
 
Comparing the US and Communist China is a rabbit hole I am not entering. The thread is about Communist China.
 
@KMG would you think the Chinese is more concern on a very political Bishop rather than the theology? I think that is what they are very sensitive on and not so much on the belief of the Church which they probably accept as the Church belief.
 
That’s exactly right.
China simply doesn’t want anti-china bishops like cardinal Zen.
Unless one suggests that in order to be a Catholic you have to be anti-China then there is no problem.
 
Calling Cardinal Zen an “anti-china bishop” while sugarcoating the atheistic Communist Chinese government is frankly deplorable.
 
A cardinal that knowingly willfully with full knowledge of legal consequence still decides to break the law of his country and invites others to do the same is absolutely deplorable. I don’t think the Bible teaches us that. He should face the full force of the law.
 
It is not only deplorable but despicable to suggest that a cardinal should be subjected to the “justice” of an atheistic Communist government. I imagine in World War 2 you would subject cardinals to Nazi “justice” if they encouraged their faithful to break Nazi laws.
 
You obviously are not familiar with Cardinal Zen.
I wasn’t referring to Chinese laws, I was obviously referring to Hong Kong’s laws (for those who follow Hong Kong news)

He supported the “occupy central” movement and knew that he could be charged for criminal offence and yet still decided to go ahead and actually planned (and did) surrender to police afterwards. He hasn’t been charged but that could happen in the future and he could go to jail for it.

I don’t know any cardinal in the world in modern times would knowingly violate the laws of the country publicly and then surrender to police, which shows that it was wilful behaviour.

Let’s also remember Hong Kong at the time of the “occupy central” movement was enjoying unprecedented democracy in its entire history which is an undisputable fact. In fact it still is. Hong Kong has never been more democratic. In fact the Chinese government wanted to give Hong Kong more democratic rights but the 'pro-democracy" supporters like Cardinal Zen voted against this proposal. If they didn’t vote against it, Hong Kong would have universal suffrage by now (albeit a limited one, but still better than what they’ve got now)

The reason why I think Cardinal Zen and the likes of the “pro-democracy” supporters [who are essentially anti-China supporters in my opinion – because there are pro-democracy supporters who are not anti-China] are so damaging to society is that the younger generation of Hong Kong people have been brainwashed by them.
The recent Baptist university students is a case in point. Just because they failed the exam they feel they have a right to occupy the university teachers office, threatening them. It is really disgusting. why? because in their mind, ever since the “occupy central” movement they feel they have a right to protest anything and threaten the use of violence and occupying spaces. There are no morals left in the young people of Hong Kong. I actually would feel safer in “communist” China than in Hong Kong. Just imagine you are one of the university teachers threatened by these students. Hong Kong now has deteriorated into a mob rule culture, and i think Cardinal Zen is partly responsible.
 
AlNg said:
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KMG:
Those forced abortions and restrictions on religion really make China a place with a “positive national conscience.”
Click to expand...
The abortion rate in China has been quite high. Does the Patriotic Chinese Catholic Church teach that abortion and contraception are acceptable practices?
BTW, there are many American Catholics who accept the legalization of abortion at least according to the polls.
Click to expand...
And your point is?
That morality is subject to polls? Popular sentiment?

The research on this situation is out there if you want to look. The patriotic association is a state run church whose first loyalty is to the communist party in China. That’s a fact. It’s heinous enough that many western countries legalize the murder of helpless human beings, in China it is forced in addition.

The Chinese attending these churches are just like people everywhere else, but the structure of the “church” is what it is.
The Church that has been fully in communion all along has suffered tremendously.
 
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I have a $.25 layman’s opinion on this. Take it for what it’s worth.

After hearing Church officials in Italy speak about the positive national conscience in communist China, it’s obvious we have older western European clerics who are imbued in a particular political ideology. It’s ok to have a bias. We all come from somewhere.

But what will lead to tragedy is the in-bed-ment of Catholicism with “the world”. It didn’t work in western Europe after centuries of admixture, and it won’t work in China either. The Church is not an organization of political power. It’s purpose is not to compromise with politics of any stripe but to call people to heroic conversion.
 
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ratio1 said:
That’s exactly right.
China simply doesn’t want anti-china bishops like cardinal Zen.
Unless one suggests that in order to be a Catholic you have to be anti-China then there is no problem.
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More than a suggestion, to be Catholic is to believe in God and the dignity of every human being, both of which are explicitly contrary to communist ideology. The right to worship God and the right to life are non-negotiable in all times and places.

If you insist that makes one also “anti-China” then that is your label. To me that makes him pro-China, since China is primarily a nation of people.
 
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Exactly right.
Not much communist ideology left in China anymore these days.
 
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