I agree on the first part, but absent any monolithic view, should we consider the fiqh schools to be an authority?
Each of us must decide for ourselves how powerful our “doubts” are in the matter…I lean toward giving the “benefit of the doubt” to the majority of Muslims rather than vilify the Muslim world as a whole for the acts of the minority…I have to satisfy my own “doubts” concerning the matter in light of my faith tradition as you do yours.
Inedd. Just as I’d rather trust a Catholic explaining Catholic beliefs than trusting what an Orthodox believer or a Muslim would say about Catholicism.
Exactly.
Understood, but since a such a large number of Islamic of Islamic states currently carry the death penalty, are you sure it is the Muslims you know, or the Muslims who live in these countries who are in the minority?
But Rich, in the current discussion of the death penalty for apostacy in Islam, do you give more weight to personal testimony, or the fiqh councils of jurisprudence, and modern and historical legal precedent?
:coffeeread: still waiting
As to the death penalty, I personally don’t give a r.a. I just know that it is better to trust a knowledgable adherent of a religion who is explaining it than an outsider.
And reading this forum, I’d rather a dog fart in my face than trust much of anything Catholics have to say when they defend Islam.
So, here is a person who lives among Arabic (the language of the Quran) speaking Muslims. Does his voice have any merit?And reading this forum, I’d rather a dog fart in my face than trust much of anything Catholics have to say when they defend Islam.
I have the Church’s documents, I have the writings of Saints, and I have plain Gospel and Epistles which pretty much tell me nothing different than the Church’s doctrines in the Church’s documents- Islam is a false religion, a type of antiChrist and under no circumstances is it even remotely defensible from a Christian perspective.
What is being ignored here, is people say they don’t trust Catholics or anyone else to say what Muslims believe, and then when a dissenting Catholic (not a potential dhimmi) merely relays exactly what Muslims say, the other Catholics say, “well, that’s not the Muslim thought I know!”. Or if a Muslim/person in a Muslim country says something, like that Sam777 guy, it’s all but ignored in lieu of the more palatable doctrine. Make up your cotton pickin’ minds!
I’m going to go with what is understood and taught in ARABIC SPEAKING COUNTRIES. And “friend”, it ain’t Christian or even palatable by a long shot.
As for Ringil and the little “our priests are an example”: This man, Yousef Nadarkhani, is about to be executed for the name of Jesus Christ:
AND YOU MOCK HIM!?!
I can’t even begin to attempt a “charitable” reply to that.
All I can say is have fun encouraging the insulation of the Gospel. Is he a Protestant? Yes. Is he a better example for a Christian in many ways than any sycophantic priest who goes into old age in a culture where there shouldn’t be a single gray-haired Christian, for all the dead martyrs who are alive in Christ? In my opinion? Heck yes.
You people are disgusting in your defense of the indefensible.
It is the law of the land they live in…Muslims as a whole…world wide from what I understand have a much more moderate stance than Saudi Arabia…Islam in Saudi Arabia is not reflective of Islam as a whole…no doubt the moderate Muslims in SA are in the minority. I don’t think we disagree on that…do we? Since I know very few of the 1 billion plus Muslims of the world, and of those I know and have spoken to seem to be quite educated people…they too find SA rather…“conservative” and violent in their estimation…and as stated above, Saudi Arabia is not representative of Islam as a whole…the majority of Muslims do not live in SA…or Iran…or Iraq…or Afghanistan…or Syria.
What? I am not Arab, nor do I live amongst them (though I do enjoy a good bit of the music, culture, and food). I can say this: I have more interaction with Arabs, both personally and professionally, as well as native speakers who are Muslim, than most here who defend it.
No one ‘walks the walk’ on Islam more than the Saudi’s. They pump billions into Madrassas. Distribuite millions of Quran’s. Donate more cash to Islamic charities than any ther Muslim nation or charity.
You’re right, the largest Muslim country is Indonesia where apostates are killed, though they are not supposed to be according to the Indonesian Constitution:
As I stated…we all “pick and choose” what we beleive…as do you friend.No one ‘walks the walk’ on Islam more than the Saudi’s. They pump billions into Madrassas. Distribuite millions of Quran’s. Donate more cash to Islamic charities than any ther Muslim nation or charity.
Since they ‘walk the walk’ you **must agree with Wahibbism.
**Unless of course, you are just picking what you would ‘like’ to believe?
I too have no wish to be a martyr…I wish to die an old old man of natural causes.
Which is fine once you admit that your criteria for choosing has nothing to do with Islam but rather, what you want Islam to be.
Peace to you friend.
Since it’s all relative, here’s a great poem from an Iraqi describing the actions of Jaish Al-Mahdi (Sadr’s militia which answers to Iran) in some battles.
May the peace of God be with you as well.Since it’s all relative, here’s a great poem from an Iraqi describing the actions of Jaish Al-Mahdi (Sadr’s militia which answers to Iran) in some battles.
His use of the language in poetry is superb, and a friend of mine, winner of Hasab Al-Shakhe Jaffar prize for young poets in 1995, and Diwan Al-Sharq Al-Gharb prize for poetry in 2007, translated it for me a few years ago.
Sounds cool and beautiful, until you know what he’s actually saying.
youtube.com/watch?v=qo85z2nouy8