S
SyCarl
Guest
I don’t know about other churches but I know that mine does not claim infallibility. It claims to do the best it can to follow Christ and his teachings.
Christian Truths are Christian Truths! Most Christians are Catholic and they don’t realize it.
- Status
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Faith, Grace and Good-Works
Many Protestants and non-Catholic Christians and the “Bible Alone” crowd, have a problem with “Good-Works”, or doing those things which are pleasing to God and with Catholic “traditions” and ceremonies, They believe that they are “Saved by Grace or Faith Alone”. Yet, most of them have Wedding (Holy Matrimony), Baptism and Funeral ceremonies, which is more than “Faith Alone” and goes beyond the “Bible Alone” and are traditions which have been passed down.
Many Protestants and non-Catholic Christians and the “Bible Alone” crowd, have a problem with “Good-Works”, or doing those things which are pleasing to God and with Catholic “traditions” and ceremonies, They believe that they are “Saved by Grace or Faith Alone”. Yet, most of them have Wedding (Holy Matrimony), Baptism and Funeral ceremonies, which is more than “Faith Alone” and goes beyond the “Bible Alone” and are traditions which have been passed down.
N
NDfan
Guest
Jimmy I don’t know any Protestant who has a problem with good works. But in the end our works do not get us to Heaven. Performing good works is considered doing our job as a Christian and follower of Christ.
With respect to Baptism we are baptized because Jesus tells us to. Weddings and funeral ceremonies have nothing to do with Bible Alone. It seems you are terribly confused. They are not traditions that have been passed down. Weddings and funeral ceremonies are certainly scriptural. Sometimes it appears you are so biased towards Roman Catholicism that you haven’t actually taken the time to understand what other demoninations actually believe or are about.
S
SyCarl
Guest
We also have confirmation but these and the above your refer to are not viewed as sacraments. Confirmation is a declaration of faith accepting the promises that were made and given at baptism on their behalf.
Good works are necessary and are the result and evidence of faith. Where we differ in most denominations is that we do not believe that they merit increase in grace and eternal life.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Praying to or for “dead people”.
(Their, Protestant’s words referring to the Catholic belief in the Communion of the Saints.)
Many Protestants and non-Catholic Christians have a problem with this one… that is until someone they know or loves dies. Many Protestants and non-Catholic Christian denominations have Funeral Ceremonies, presided over by a Christian Ministers, where the Minister prays for, and/or recites prayers for, the “dead person” and often times, to the “dead person”; “I know he is in heaven” or “He can hear us from Heaven”. Note non-Catholic Christians, don’t usually have a problem praying for one another, as long as they are still alive, even though I have been reminded a time or two, that “God knows what we want before we ask for it”.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
(Their, Protestant’s words referring to the Catholic belief in the Communion of the Saints.)
Many Protestants and non-Catholic Christians have a problem with this one… that is until someone they know or loves dies. Many Protestants and non-Catholic Christian denominations have Funeral Ceremonies, presided over by a Christian Ministers, where the Minister prays for, and/or recites prayers for, the “dead person” and often times, to the “dead person”; “I know he is in heaven” or “He can hear us from Heaven”. Note non-Catholic Christians, don’t usually have a problem praying for one another, as long as they are still alive, even though I have been reminded a time or two, that “God knows what we want before we ask for it”.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Veneration of Mary and the Saints
Most “Protestants” have a problem with this, even though our devoutly religious (Protestant) Founding Fathers (USA) wasted no time erecting gigantic memorials to venerate people like Presidents Washington and Lincoln and those on Mount Rushmore and others. And today, many Protestant and non-Catholics have no problem what so ever, making a pilgrimage to these memorials and many like them around the world.
Note: Catholics don’t have a problem either but then again, we don’t have a problem with venerating or honoring great people.
Most “Protestants” have a problem with this, even though our devoutly religious (Protestant) Founding Fathers (USA) wasted no time erecting gigantic memorials to venerate people like Presidents Washington and Lincoln and those on Mount Rushmore and others. And today, many Protestant and non-Catholics have no problem what so ever, making a pilgrimage to these memorials and many like them around the world.
Note: Catholics don’t have a problem either but then again, we don’t have a problem with venerating or honoring great people.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Engraven Images
Some “Protestants” and non-Catholic Christians have a problem with this but then they will go and see a movie (like the “Passion of the Christ”) which is technically, an “Engraven Image**” **of Jesus.
Am I wrong?
Some “Protestants” and non-Catholic Christians have a problem with this but then they will go and see a movie (like the “Passion of the Christ”) which is technically, an “Engraven Image**” **of Jesus.
Am I wrong?
N
NDfan
Guest
Jimmy I would say you are wrong on this one. My wife lost her father last year unexpectedly to a massive heart attack. She never prays to him nor asks him to pray for her. We believe he is in heaven with GOD and doing his work there. If he has the ability to pray for us we believe he is. We don’t feel we need to ask him to pray for us. I think this is true of any Christian that goes to Heaven. If they can pray for us I believe they are. The question would be why should we ask?? If they can hear us then surely they can see what is going on in our lives. If my father-in-law can see that his grandson has a tumor in his brain, then I’m sure he is praying to GOD to heal him. I don’t think I need to ask as he would probably say, I’m already way ahead of you.
You ascribe the ability of those in Heaven with being all knowing and all seeing. They would have to be in order to hear our requests for intercessions of prayer. The last I checked only GOD had these abilities.
With respect to praying for the dead, this comes right from Maccabees which is an old testament book. It would make sense to offer sacrifices for the dead in this time as this was the accepted mode of cleansing ourselves of sin before GOD. If a person died before offering an animal sacrifice to atone for sins committed then the family would do that on their behalf. But since Jesus preached the good news to those GODLY souls in sheoul and they have been released, those types of sacrifices are not needed anymore. Which leads us to a discussion of purgatory.
S
SyCarl
Guest
We love and respect Mary and saints. However, most do not pray to or through them. Many Churches have pictures or images but they are not used for prayer or knelt to. For example there is a stained glass window of Mary at my church. You can see it here.
standrewskw.com/wtour.htm
G
gcnuss
Guest
Jimmy,
I think that you are trying too hard to separate Catholic and non-Catholics. Why would any Christian not have Baptism – after all, our Lord himself commanded us to “go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” Would you expect us to ignore his words just so that we are differentiated from Catholics thereby?
Do you think that the reformers decided to chuck out everything and start from scratch? If you haven’t done so, read the Augsburg Confession, written by the Lutherans, and see how they tried to affirm all that was good in the Church’s teaching while also speaking to the abuses that they perceived had crept into the Church. Read the Augsburg Confession together with the Confutatio Pontificia to see just where there were differences and where the Lutherans and Catholics agreed. You may be surprised to find that there was much agreement.
Now, I will admit, there were differences in theology and ecclesiology that kept the two sides from reconciling. But that does not mean that all that had been taught by the Church for 1500 years was rejected. Certainly, the reformers were not against doing good works, but were concerned with the popular belief that good works were somehow salvific, a belief that was not always clearly rejected in the daily life of the Church.
That’s enough of my writing for the moment. The Holy Week scheduled beckons me to other things. I will try to keep in touch during the breaks in my schedule.
May the blessings of the season be showered on you.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Fasting on Fridays or during Lent
There are many “Protestants” and non-Catholic Christians who have a problem with fasting on Fridays and during Lent, yet, the “Diet Industry” is a multi-billion dollar industry. Where are all those who are against “fasting”, when it come to the “Diet Industry”? Is this one of those things, which is generally accepted for the purposes of vanity but not accepted for Catholics?
Does anyone see a pattern devoloping here?
There are many “Protestants” and non-Catholic Christians who have a problem with fasting on Fridays and during Lent, yet, the “Diet Industry” is a multi-billion dollar industry. Where are all those who are against “fasting”, when it come to the “Diet Industry”? Is this one of those things, which is generally accepted for the purposes of vanity but not accepted for Catholics?
Does anyone see a pattern devoloping here?
S
SyCarl
Guest
The diet industry has no bearing on religious fasting. Many Protestants do fast but it is generally a voluntary act. Where is there any value if you do it because someone says that you must do it at a certain time?
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Hi SyCarl,
What bearing does Catholic fasting have on non-Catholics? And what do you mean by “value”?
Peace
S
SyCarl
Guest
If we are to show honour to God through fasting, it should be a voluntary act, not something we do because we are told to. There is nothing wrong with Catholics fasting but if it is done on a “I do it because I must” basis, it is being done for a wrong purpose.Hi SyCarl,
What bearing does Catholic fasting have on non-Catholics? And what do you mean by “value”?
Peace
S
Stephen_C
Guest
There is also value in obedience as well.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
S
SyCarl
Guest
I guess I would say meaning. If you do it for the wrong reason it doesn’t really mean anything spiritually.I agree but what did you mean when you wrote “value”?
Peace
N
NDfan
Guest
Stephen just keep in mind that confessing with our lips that Jesus is our savior and Lord may be done out of obedience but does not necessarily mean it is from the heart.There is also value in obedience as well.
We partake in the Lord’s Supper as an act of obedience to Faith. But someone who does it because they have to vs. someone who does it because they want to is a big difference. Obedience means nothing if it does not come from the heart. Your implication is that if we just do everything the church tells us we are saved. GOD sees what’s in the heart. Obedience to Faith because of obligation vs. true desire are quite different:thumbsup:
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Hi Sycarl
*When you posted – *
“Many Protestants do fast but it is generally a voluntary act. Where is there any value if you do it because someone says that you must do it at a certain time?”
(I underlined the words here).
*These all sound like an argument for “Good-Works” along with Faith and Grace. I thought you were turning Catholic right before my vary eyes…”do fast”…”act”….”value”…You were sounding pretty “Catholic” there for a second. That was a close call, I thought for a second, you were going to have to turn in your “Protestant” card. (Tongue-in-cheek)
*
*Peace *
*When you posted – *
“Many Protestants do fast but it is generally a voluntary act. Where is there any value if you do it because someone says that you must do it at a certain time?”
(I underlined the words here).
*These all sound like an argument for “Good-Works” along with Faith and Grace. I thought you were turning Catholic right before my vary eyes…”do fast”…”act”….”value”…You were sounding pretty “Catholic” there for a second. That was a close call, I thought for a second, you were going to have to turn in your “Protestant” card. (Tongue-in-cheek)
**Peace
*
S
SyCarl
Guest
It is a fine distinction but good works are necessary as a result of faith. However they do not merit anything. We should do them because we love God, not because we want something in return.Hi Sycarl
*When you posted – *
“Many Protestants do fast but it is generally a voluntary act. Where is there any value if you do it because someone says that you must do it at a certain time?”
(I underlined the words here).
*These all sound like an argument for “Good-Works” along with Faith and Grace. I thought you were turning Catholic right before my vary eyes…”do fast”…”act”….”value”…You were sounding pretty “Catholic” there for a second. That was a close call, I thought for a second, you were going to have to turn in your “Protestant” card. (Tongue-in-cheek)
*Peace
Personally I have difficulty fasting as I must take medication each morning that must be taken with food.
- Status